What type of wood to use?

[hampstead38]

Hey, Doc,

I have the original interior, but I kept it for templates rather than reuse. We're going a different direction on the interior layout. My first thought was to do aluminum framing, but I don't have the Tig welder technology or skillset. I had thought about using fastners so I could break down some things to get access.

Honestly, wood seems a little easier though I hadn't thought of mahogany. Do I need to dig up a winning lottery ticket... because I haven't done a price check on mahogany in awhile. I'm not far from Annapolis... maybe I can score something from a wayward boat builder?

As for cork, I love the idea of the cork floor, but I have to fix the leaks. My ten-hour driving in driving rain with huge gusts water-tight integrity test did not go well. I'm going to consult a "guru" on fixing the leaks, which seemed to occur mostly around the windows. After the trip, I wondered if I should just make a giant fiberglass pan for a floor and crown everything to run to a single floor drain.

I'm thinking of using your marine varnish tip to coat the subfloor. It can't hurt. I may with with 1/4" sheathing over the existing subfloor to give me a nice level surface. I like cork as a flooring material. I'd almost rather put down the floor and then put down the cabinets. Otherwise, it's going to feel a lot like a jigsaw puzzle.

Thanks for the advice. I think of an Airstream as a nonfloating boat so I'm using my Navy background to conceptualize the interior.

[utee94]

I'd definitely advise putting down your flooring first and then putting furniture over it. You might spend a little more to put finish flooring over the entire subfloor, but in boating terms, the "fit & finish" turns out much nicer this way. The only consideration is that it will raise up any furniture and/or wall dividers by the thickness of the floor in any area where Airstream didn't originally put finish flooring down (in my case this was the above-floor black tank and tub, which were laid directly on the subfloor. In all other cases, the furniture was laid on top of the original VAT at the factory, which is pretty much the same thickness as the VCT I used to replace it, so minimal adjustments were necessary).

Anyway, it's not that difficult to account for the difference in height, and I love the finished look of a real floor underneath all of the cabinets and beds and whatnot.

-Marcus

[safari62]

I was lucky enough to find a model and year trailer that used a light colored wood (mostly 3/8" veneered oak plywood) with a light tan stain wash.
I think many refer to this a Danish or even Danish modern stain. It is kind of a mix of light beige with some light green. There is enough of it applied so that it smooths out the grain of the wood put you can still see the grain.
Only the front over head cabinets where still in very good condition. The rest had to be either sanded and restained and the mid section base and refer enclosure wood had to be replaced.

I found oak veneer at a speciality plywood supplier. For some reason these sections are 5' x 4' or some strange measurement like that. I can look it up.

But the hard part is sanding the 45 year old veneer enough to remove dirt and damage, but not sand through the veneer.

Then I experimented with different latex paints and color additives and applied as a wash to match the existing finish. Then I applied a satin polyethelene over the stain.

I really like the wood framing the Walter Cabinet Company used in early sixies trailers. It is strong and very light in weight. Easy to work with. I think it could be fir? Oak is used for bed sliders.

Also WHAT IS REALLY AMAZING IS that much of this framing is held it place by pan headed sheet metal screws. People hate them but they work. I found these to be easier to work with and replaced original during re-installion. Then put another 80k on the trailer as a road test. Tight.

A few photos.

[hampstead38]

Since I'm not using any of the original interior, the height doesn't really matter. I like the idea of a flooring that protects everything including the "under-the-bed" storage area in the rear of the coach and under the kitchen cabinets. I've been thinking about a "pan" floor for the entire bathroom. There's no way my wife and I will use the bathroom at the same time so I thought the whole space could be essentially a walk-in shower. I go could with a curtain to minimize splashing onto the head, but everything else could be essentially waterproof. That's the only area where the flooring might be different.

Why would people hate panhead screws? I've never found them to be inherently evil?

[safari62]

Originally Posted by utee94

I'd definitely advise putting down your flooring first and then putting furniture over it. You might spend a little more to put finish flooring over the entire subfloor, but in boating terms, the "fit & finish" turns out much nicer this way. The only consideration is that it will raise up any furniture and/or wall dividers by the thickness of the floor in any area where Airstream didn't originally put finish flooring down (in my case this was the above-floor black tank and tub, which were laid directly on the subfloor. In all other cases, the furniture was laid on top of the original VAT at the factory, which is pretty much the same thickness as the VCT I used to replace it, so minimal adjustments were necessary).

Anyway, it's not that difficult to account for the difference in height, and I love the finished look of a real floor underneath all of the cabinets and beds and whatnot.

-Marcus

I like this idea in theory and probably would do this on a total frame off job where I could use one sheet of Marmoleum etc.

In my case where I had replaced only part of the sub floor and used the 1/4" underlayment to smooth out the surface, I later discovered it was useful to be able to see and inspect the original subfloor where it connects to the walls.

Why? The forgotten open window during a rain storm or even driving rain on a closed window and water runs down the wall and into the crack of the new flooring to the sub floor. I would rather be able to see and find water then to have to disappear out of site. I constantly check for leaks and seeing the sub floor adds peace of mind for me.

I did extend the vct into the closets and under bed, but all other unseen areas are still visable subfloor. Even Airstream did not carry the final flooring all the way to the front wall under the guacho in 62'.

AND if I ever sell it (never) I can show buyer that nice and dry sub floor instead of hidden mystery meat from the dark side.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

interesting how old thread come back around.

I have seen Safari62's trailer and it is very nice. Actually it is far from nice it is near perfect. If you are ever at a gathering with him, be sure to go see it first hand.

I wanted to throw a few things out... The framing I build is with sugar pine or spruce. Not the pine spruce you buy at the box store, I buy it at my hardwood supplier. Both of those woods are very light, very stable, and are strong. By buying them from my supplier, I get a knot free kiln dried material that does not twist or split. I then deck everything with 1/4" Baltic birch plywood. This is a very light, very stable plywood with zero voids. On top of that I put the wood veneer that the client wants. I buy all my veneer from Oakwood veneers. Here are some examples of finished work...

That is quarter sawn cherry. Two coats of lacquer based sealer followed by two coats of satin lacquer.

This is fiddle back maple.

Fiddle back with a solid wood face frame made of ambrosia maple. This is one of those recycled urban woods that is not often seen.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Oh, sorry. To give proper credit also... Boatdoc's trailer.... unbelievable. When you go in there the lower jaw and upper jaw cease to meet.

Either of those guys trailers are very worth the gander. they both make you realize how far you have still to come.

[hampstead38]

Well, Frank, there's spectrum of folks from artists to craftsman to pros to amateurs. I'm down there in the sub-amateur level just above guys who use a chain saw to finish cabinets. (I do have a Stihl 026, but it's strictly for framing. )

As for the floor, I can see the advantage of a solid sheet of flooring and some kind of sealing against the wall to minimize moisture damage. I also see S62's point of retaining the ability to inspect the subfloor.

I think the first goal is to minimize water intrusion, but accidents can and do happen. While I'm apprehensive, I also have to remind myself that we picked up the Overlander after it had sat for many years and 90 percent of the floor was fine. The rot was limited to the rear bathroom and the door/fridge area. Overall, not bad for a trailer over 40.

I'm not building a house so the amount of lumber I need is fairly modest. I can probably afford to go pretty high end... and I generally loathe box store lumber. It's loosely grained, wet and generally junk. If you have a good Maryland supplier let me know. Or I can piggyback on one of your orders and push you a percentage for your trouble.

Back to flooring, I can see the advantages of putting down flooring ahead of the cabinets to get a crisp transition. So, it comes back to a question of what type. Is cork the best solution? Marmoleum? High end sheet vinyl?

[Frank's Trailer Works]

my vote is cork. Very forgiving and comfortable under foot.

[utee94]

Originally Posted by hampstead38

Back to flooring, I can see the advantages of putting down flooring ahead of the cabinets to get a crisp transition. So, it comes back to a question of what type. Is cork the best solution? Marmoleum? High end sheet vinyl?

There are plenty of great options, so for me it came down to cost and aesthetics. VAT was good enough for Airstream, so its cousin VCT was good enough for me. It's inexpensive, durable, easy to lay in a DIY application, and there are hundreds of patterns, from those reminiscent of vintage tiles, to those that are modern and brand new.

With unlimited budget I probably would have gone with sheet linoleum (true linoleum, not sheet vinyl that many people refer to generically as linoleum). But for me, it was simply much too expensive. VCT in a pattern that reminded me of some of my favorite Marmoleum patterns is what I used, and it met my criteria for low cost, pleaseing aesthetics, and easy DIY-ability.

-Marcus

[dufferin]

I would and will go with Bamboo. For floor and wall. Though Bamboo Ply is quite expensive... but I have time since I haven't take delivery of the Over 63

[Over59]

Frank. What are you using to glue and press the veneer.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Paul I use a high solids contact cement. I think the brand name is Bond Rite. I buy it from my plywood dealer by the case. The 3M 90 at the box store works very well too. Ideally is to use a vacuum bag and yellow glue but I have not splurged on that technology even after all these years.

I might want to say that IF one copies the original wood work, one can just use 1/4" plywood to do everything.

[VIKING]

Veneering with spray contact cement is not as reliable as it used to be. A lot of new contact cement doesn't hold up to extreme high temperatures like the old toxic stuff. We still use it for countertops with formica-type laminates, and for laminate cabinet refacing. For woodwork in an Airstream I would stay away from it. Yellow glue is more bulletproof but requires a press or vacuum table/bag to clamp it against the substrate. You can make your own very inexpensively if you have a compressor already.
Obviously there are a lot of people using spray contact adhesives with success, but I learned not to trust it after a couple of EXPENSIVE failures. One cause of these failures is condensation. When you apply spray contact in a cold or humid environment the evaporation causes water to condense onto the surface of the glue. If you don't wait until it evaporates this layer of water keeps the contact from adhering to itself. I use a heat gun to force-dry it or space heater to warm the space I'm working in if possible.
I also read early in this thread that cherry is a bad choice for Airstream woodwork. Cherry is THE traditional American furniture hardwood. There are a lot of 200+ year old pieces that look absolutely fantastic! The patina that develops on cherrywood is a look that is almost impossible to duplicate.
Rich the Viking

[Frank's Trailer Works]

I 100% agree about Cherry. It is my favorite wood both aesthetically and to work. I think it ages very gracefully. The only thing I do not like about Cherry is that many insist on putting a stain on it. The beauty of wood is well, the natural beauty of wood.

As for the spray adhesive Viking is right. I however buy the nuclear stuff from my wholesale plywood and cabinet supplier.

[boatdoc]

Hi Hampstead;
My interior is all new African OKUME [Mahogany] plywood. Overlander has given you an excellent tip on framing. Spruce is very light and strong, it takes glue very well.
As for the floor, it is not my intention to argue with guy's who want nyloboard. I have not tested that material for expansion/contraction and softening in high heat.
I do know one thing if it says "NYLON" it is affected by temperatures unless some other component is added to stabilize it. It can also be heavy because there is no lightweight nylon.

My floor is 1/2" aluminum clad both sides plywood. It is void less and glued with waterproof glue. Most of all it has the rigidity of 3/4" exterior ply because of aluminum skin on both sides. Tho seal the edges I have used 1/2" aluminum C channel from McMaster-Carr. That trim is 1/2" wide on top and 1.1/4" leg on the bottom. To make the round corners I have cut V shape notches in the 1.1/4" underside part of the trim. The 1/2" top has no problem accepting the radius. The outside C trim was filled to 1/8" thick layer of 3M 5200 adhesive. Holes were pre-drilled and countersunk for #6 SS flat head screws into the edge of ply horizontally. The trim was tapped on with plastic hammer over a piece of scrap wood not to distort the trim. Excess adhesive was cleaned up. The joints in H trim were also treated with 3M 5200. All fasteners to frame were pre-drilled with 3/16 drill into the frame. Holes in ply were opened up to 1/4". All screw holes were treated with 5200 but not countersunk. This allow the flat head 1/4x 20 SS screws to compress the top skin of the ply thus making them watertight. The 5200 also serves as form of locking component for the 1/4X20 screws. The joints between the individual sheets were joined via horizontally laid H trim. All trim is 1/16" in thickness. It needs to be said here that 3M 5200 makes a forever seal. Thanks "Boatdoc"

[hampstead38]

All of our home furniture is cherry done in a natural (no tint) finish. I love the grain pattern, but we're thinking something lighter for the coach. I'm probably safer working with something like okume rather than messing with veneers. I could end up permanently glued to the Airstream.

The subfloor is already in, competely new plywood. I wasn't interested in nyloboard because I thought the original plywood performed well given the overall circumstances. Don't get me wrong, Doc, what you've done is impressive as heck, but I just need to squeeze another 25 years or so out of the Overlander.

My focus is more on flooring material than what I would generally subflooring. If I do cork, I may have to put in a smooth 1/4 plywood layer over the subfloor. In fact, I'd rather do a thin layer of real plywood rather than use the composite floating floor with cork surface. I've used Pergo and a few other products. I wouldn't use them in an Airstream where the humidity can fluctuate and there's a strong possibility of water.

I think Marcus has it right on the real linoleum as a nice product with regard to maintenance, but I do like the warmth, feel and "quiet" of cork.

[flyinbrian]

Hey Everybody, I'm new here but I am just finishing my resto and used cork for the floor and bamboo for all the cabinets, walls, countertops, etc. I'm very happy with my choices. Cheers, Brian

[VIKING]

Welcome to you Brian!
how about some pictures of your restoration? We all love to see what others have done with their Airstream interiors.
Good to have you aboard,
Rich the Viking

Originally Posted by Argosy Brian

Hey Everybody, I'm new here but I am just finishing my resto and used cork for the floor and bamboo for all the cabinets, walls, countertops, etc. I'm very happy with my choices. Cheers, Brian

[VIKING]

Not all okume plywood is the same. Some of it has a tendency to come apart between the layers of ply. I don't know if Boatdoc experienced this at all. The cheap grade of okume has waterproof glue, but it sometimes has too little. We used to use it for subtop material for tile and stone counters but it was less reliable than cdx fir ply and costs about the same. A furniture grade okume plywood is something I haven't seen yet. You can also use lyptus or african mahogany(called african cherry, also) or even phillipine mahogany to get a close resemblance to honduran mahogany. For myself, I could only be really happy with the real honduran stuff. There is no substitute for the depth and irridescence, and the fabulous colors, in any of the other mahoganys. It just cost an arm & a leg. You can't blame the hondurans, though, they finally figured out what their trees are really worth!

Rich the Viking

Originally Posted by hampstead38

All of our home furniture is cherry done in a natural (no tint) finish. I love the grain pattern, but we're thinking something lighter for the coach. I'm probably safer working with something like okume rather than messing with veneers. I could end up permanently glued to the Airstream.

The subfloor is already in, competely new plywood. I wasn't interested in nyloboard because I thought the original plywood performed well given the overall circumstances. Don't get me wrong, Doc, what you've done is impressive as heck, but I just need to squeeze another 25 years or so out of the Overlander.

My focus is more on flooring material than what I would generally subflooring. If I do cork, I may have to put in a smooth 1/4 plywood layer over the subfloor. In fact, I'd rather do a thin layer of real plywood rather than use the composite floating floor with cork surface. I've used Pergo and a few other products. I wouldn't use them in an Airstream where the humidity can fluctuate and there's a strong possibility of water.

I think Marcus has it right on the real linoleum as a nice product with regard to maintenance, but I do like the warmth, feel and "quiet" of cork.