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Old 06-24-2017, 11:22 AM   #1
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50 amp inlet - weight concerns

Installing 50A service. This includes cutting 2.5" hole for new SmartPlug inlet in trailer wall just forward of the street wheel well.

1. Is there a need for a backing plate inside the trailer wall to provide support at the inlet male receptacle?
2. Is there a need for a hanging mechanism to support the cord itself just after the female connector? The SmartPlug cord assembly has a reasonably good strain relief built in.

To complete the installation,

3. Where, on-line, can I purchase the NEC-required warning labels positioned just above the inlet?

I can find the warning labels in packs of 100, but I only need one for 240/120V 50A service (shore - side) and one for 240/120V 30A service (generator - front). We will be using a Honda EU6500i with 240/120V 30A service.

73/gus
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Old 06-24-2017, 01:14 PM   #2
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Hi

If it's simply mounted to the trailer wall right now, I'd add a backing plate. The first time somebody does a "grab and pull" without fully releasing the clips on the connector ... you'll likely want it. A backing plate plus a hanger for the cable sounds like overkill.

Bob
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Old 06-24-2017, 01:56 PM   #3
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Another trick is to put some of the "Great Stuff" foam between the inside and outside walls. That makes a foam core sandwich out of the two walls and is MUCH stronger. I'd use the minimally expanding version to avoid bulges in the skin. Someone on here did it. Pick a spot for the connector and drill some small holes around but inside the perimeter of the hole you need for the connector. Squirt in the foam and allow it to expand and cure. Then cut out the connector hole.

Hww are you running the inside wiring? I want to make this change myself.

Al
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Old 06-24-2017, 05:24 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
How are you running the inside wiring? I want to make this change myself. Al
I start with a new AC load center mounted in a new cabinet where the dinette used to be - next to frig.

The shore power 6/4 wiring from street-side SmartPlug inlet to load center is in the same cabinet as the load center - next to frig. The generator power 6/4 wiring from front-mounted SmartPlug to load center runs within cabinets and bench seating along the street side. The load center has a UL-approved manual interlock front panel.

I replace as much NM-B ROMEX wiring where I have access. I replaced it on circuit 5 (kitchen, bath, outside outlet), circuit 3 water heater, and circuit 4 microwave/convection. The circuit I really wish I was replacing is A/C heat pump circuit. Luckily, this branch circuit wire goes into the wall in the cabinet with the load center.

My idea for a detailed component list is here:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...ml#post1963680

and connections are described here:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...ml#post1966733

73/gus
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Old 06-24-2017, 06:13 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by gklott View Post
I start with a new AC load center mounted in a new cabinet where the dinette used to be - next to frig.

The shore power 6/4 wiring from street-side SmartPlug inlet to load center is in the same cabinet as the load center - next to frig. The generator power 6/4 wiring from front-mounted SmartPlug to load center runs within cabinets and bench seating along the street side. The load center has a UL-approved manual interlock front panel.

I replace as much NM-B ROMEX wiring where I have access. I replaced it on circuit 5 (kitchen, bath, outside outlet), circuit 3 water heater, and circuit 4 microwave/convection. The circuit I really wish I was replacing is A/C heat pump circuit. Luckily, this branch circuit wire goes into the wall in the cabinet with the load center.

My idea for a detailed component list is here:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...ml#post1963680

and connections are described here:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...ml#post1966733

73/gus
Thanks. I guess I have a different configuration. My trailer has the power cord storage cabinet at the roadside rear. The breaker panel is in the BR overhead directly above. There is a junction box behind a panel in the storage compartment over the bumper that presumably connects the trailer 120V/30A umbilical to the distribution panel. I'm hoping I can figure out how to snake the 50A cable up there, and then run a piece of 12/2 to the current vent fan location so I can add a second AC in place of the fan. I think the trickiest part is going to be getting the 12/2 run, but I could easily be wrong. I'd probably put a connector in the side of the trailer and connectorize the existing 30A cable for when I don't need both AC units. AS an alternative I could put a connector or pigtail in the cord storage area and snake a piece of 12/2 up to power the second AC only from the 15A outlet in the pedestal.

Al
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Old 06-24-2017, 06:32 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
Thanks. I guess I have a different configuration. My trailer has the power cord storage cabinet at the roadside rear. The breaker panel is in the BR overhead directly above. There is a junction box behind a panel in the storage compartment over the bumper that presumably connects the trailer 120V/30A umbilical to the distribution panel.
Al
You have the same configuration as we do (did) - same cord storage cabinet, breaker box, etc.

We did not have room in the BR cabinet for the 240/120 50A load center. Our power cord storage cabinet will not hold a 50A cord. After trying several alternatives, keeping the 50A service components in the same space as the 30A components just wasn't going to work.

So, we made the decision to "start over", as much as we could. Since we replaced our dinette with desk height cabinets, that is the optimal place in the middle.

Good luck.

73/gus
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Old 06-25-2017, 10:25 AM   #7
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Hi

The newer Classic 30' puts the 50A load center under the wardrobe across from the fridge. There's still not much room for expansion with that location. It also is a bit silly for getting anything over to the inlet on the other side of the trailer or up to the front.

Bob
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Old 06-25-2017, 10:30 AM   #8
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Been there done this.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...in-106918.html

The goal for the weight is load distribution. I ensured the outer and inner skin supported the whole load using foam... I then thru bolted the outside to the inside with Marine grade stainless hardware with nice wide washers on inside. Check out the thread.
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:27 PM   #9
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The goal for the weight is load distribution. I ensured the outer and inner skin supported the whole load using foam.
Thanks. Which non-expanding, rigid foam did you use that will not cause aluminum to corrode? Looks like some of the DAP and similar foams for insulating around aluminum windows might work, but most are non-rigid.

I was planning on using stainless screws just as you did. I have easy access to both sides. Still considering adding a 4x4x1/8" aluminum backing plate for additional strength on the inside wall.

Also, did you use a hole saw or a punch? I have a good Greenlee 2.52" punch for putting holes in electric boxes.

73/gus
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Old 06-25-2017, 06:32 PM   #10
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Another trick is to put some of the "Great Stuff" foam between the inside and outside walls. That makes a foam core sandwich out of the two walls and is MUCH stronger.Al
Did you use the Great Stuff Window & Door - which is "minimally expanding"? The specs say "Flexible after it cures.", not rigid as you describe. I'm confused because the Dow specs and instructions specifically say: "GREAT STUFF™ is not to be used for filling closed cavities or voids such as behind walls...this improper use of the product could result in the accumulation of flammable vapors and/or uncured material."

Looking at the DAP Home Seal minimum expanding sealant or DAP No Warp Window & Door Sealant. I was also looking at the 3M FireBlock, but "Foam expands up to 200% during cure process."

73/gus
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Old 06-25-2017, 06:38 PM   #11
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I used Great Stuff, but I don't remember which type. I think I used the regular, but it expanded a lot so I was going to use the minimally expanding next time. I was not aware of the flammability warning, but I presume after it cures there are no issues. The amount I used compared to the volume of the wall space it was in, I don't think the out-gassing would be significant. That said, I'll probably go with the DAP next time. I just used what I had.

Al
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Old 06-26-2017, 07:36 AM   #12
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Hi

The key with any foam fill is that it must be *tight*. Even a very small amount of "wiggle room" will allow it to vibrate and turn to dust. I (unfortunately) have a good deal of empirical data on this. That eliminates any sort of foam board and gets you into some sort of expanding foam.

Bob
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Old 06-26-2017, 07:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gklott View Post
Installing 50A service. This includes cutting 2.5" hole for new SmartPlug inlet in trailer wall just forward of the street wheel well.

1. Is there a need for a backing plate inside the trailer wall to provide support at the inlet male receptacle?
2. Is there a need for a hanging mechanism to support the cord itself just after the female connector? The SmartPlug cord assembly has a reasonably good strain relief built in.



73/gus
You'll love the Smartplug. Best changeover I made.
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Old 06-27-2017, 12:00 AM   #14
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This is kinda stuff for filling the wall.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/everc...59?recordNum=8

It handles marine environments... so I gave it a shot. I bought a couple cans.. you will see why below..

The trick for me was to test the expansion rate at the temperature I planned to use it. I decided it was best to use at night when metal was cool....also expansion rate and volume slower.. putting the can in the fridge changes the rate and volume rates too. Practice on an aluminum can.. after drinking contents and drying... by squeezing the sides of the can and punching a few holes, you can get a hang of the process..

From inside, I drilled several holes in the inner skin only... where I wanted to mount the receptacle. I did NOT drill outside at this time. I drilled 3 across... for 3 rows.

Insert the foam tube until it contacts outer skin. Wrap a piece of tape to mark "depth". This is your gauge for "too much expansion"...

Then, from inside I "filled" the space... from lower to upper carefully... inject slowly... insert tube all the way to the outer skin, expanding from the inside of the outer skin and sticking to inside of inner skin...as I saw the foam starting to flow back around the tube or an adjacent hole, stop injection and move to next hole in sequence.

If you see any expansion of the inner skin, slow down.

Let it "cure" for double the time... careful.. no smoking.. . Now, check the "density" and the strength from the inside skin... push in around the area and tap with a screwdriver tip to ensure there is adequate support by change in sound.

Now, from outside I drilled the "pilot hole"... using a "hole saw" I purchased from an "electrical house".. top of the line... not a place to go cheap...... drill out the receptacle hole... you should extract a piece with the outer and inner skin and attached foam.

Test the foam adhesion and compressibility from your core sample!!!!

When you thru bolt, use "nylock" nuts and wide washers... we really lucked out.. ours had been flawless in proper support of the umbilical... I see no discernible flex.. and the connection sounds solid.. not hollow...
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:15 PM   #15
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This is kinda stuff for filling the wall.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/everc...59?recordNum=8
Have the Evercoat Sealant Foam. Drilling holes tomorrow morning inside to insert the foam.

From the spray can directions: "...Therefore, fill cavity 2/3 (40%) full to allow for foam expansion..."

Someone need to check the math!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwf View Post
From inside, I drilled several holes in the inner skin only... where I wanted to mount the receptacle. I did NOT drill outside at this time. I drilled 3 across... for 3 rows.
The wall will contain fiberglass insulation, and I have no way to remove it. Guess the foam just fills around the insulation inside the wall.

How did you handle the insulation?

73/gus
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Old 07-15-2017, 10:28 PM   #16
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I had several interior skin drilled holes where I inserted a bent coat hanger and spun it... searching for obstruction but that pulled the sparse insulation away from the area... anyway, I am sure there will be little chance of the fiberglass offering any substantial resistance.

P. S. Don't forget to test the foam , as I suggested, to get the hang of it just prior to application to your Airstream.
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