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Old 06-06-2017, 08:40 AM   #1
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1970 27' Overlander
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Out with the old?

Have completely gutted my 1970 overlander, only thing remaining is old wiring. I will be upgrading to 30v and replacing all the wires in the AS. Figured might as well I have access to them now.

My question is, I haven't pulled them all out yet, is there a benefit to leaving them until I replace them as a guide or just start from scratch and go ahead and get them out of my way for leak repair and other repairs?
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Old 06-06-2017, 10:07 AM   #2
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Do you mean you are going from 30A to 50A? What do you hope to accomplish by replacing all your wiring? Is there something wrong with it, or is this an "as long as I am here" sort of thing?

When I came to that point, I checked my insulation for cracks, nicks and electrical leakage, mapped all of my wiring from end to end, and decided that there was no point to replacing it. All of my outlets were going back in the same spots anyway. I figured my chances of getting everything back in place without a skinned wire were pretty slim, and the original wiring was all copper and in good shape.

good luck!
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Old 06-06-2017, 10:38 AM   #3
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1970 27' Overlander
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You will have to excuse my ignorance when it comes to electric. I know nothing, now carpentry, plumbing and metal work, no problem.

I was told that my plug for the shore power is not a 30 amp plug but rather a typical house extension type of plug? So I would need to upgrade to 30 amp service. As for the wiring, yes, as long as I'm there and everything else is going to be new why not the entire electrical system. Bad idea?
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:01 PM   #4
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Unless the PO did something half-fast with the plug end, it is probably an "old style" trailer specific 30A plug, which is small, but will not plug into a typical house outlet without an adapter. You can change the plug to the modern style without making any modification to the rest of the trailer's wiring.

I am sure planty of people have another opinion, but replacing all of your electrical wiring is not only expensive, but very time consuming as well. I would say that if you intend to keep your appliances and outlets where they are, and you don't have aluminum wiring, or some whacko modification courtesy of the prior owner, leave it be.

good luck!
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:39 PM   #5
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If I was doing a gut rebuild, I would at least look at developing electrical raceways and a new upgraded electrical system with 120, 12, and USB ports. If no current plan for solar, the wiring would be there for when it was installed. Possibly, conduit and pull string would work.

If it was a flip, the above is likely an expensive idea. For a keeper, well? Pat
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:51 PM   #6
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Considering your experience level with electric systems I would recommend keeping as much of the 12v systems intact. Go through to make sure you've got good connections and such.
Consider just upgrading and adding to what is there.
Even with all my electric experience I kept the vast majority of my 12v system intact and added and upgraded it. I added/upgraded solar installation. Change out the converter to something modern and upgrade the fuse panel.
Similar with the 120VAC circuits, though those are actually a little easier to work on.
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Old 06-07-2017, 02:12 PM   #7
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If you are upgrading your AC electrical system, most strongly recommend that you have a licensed electrician update it to the requirements in the 2017 National Electric Code. The RVIA adopts following the NEC, and you want to implement the latest NEC version. You will also find your trailer's insurance company requires following the NEC if you are upgrading.

If staying with 120V 30A system, recommend installing a new load center for the maximum 5 branch circuits where you can use AFCI/GFCI OCPD on all branch circuits. Most "RV" power distribution products do not provide this.

Also recommend using water-resistant receptacles on the exterior outlet, refrigerator, and any other "damp" location, tamper-resistant receptacles elsewhere, etc.

If you are rewiring, I also recommend replacing the NM-B 90C ROMEX wiring with UL-1426 stranded 105C wiring. You will find reference to this in many threads.

Make sure that your electrician does not interconnect the neutral (white) and ground (green) conductors at any point in the trailer. Recommend replacing the bond between the trailer skin and chassis and the AC load center ground, using 8 AWG or larger conductor.

If you do not feel confident in this, recommend stepping away and have a licensed electrician do it.

73/gus
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:10 AM   #8
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1976 Argosy 20
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Hi. Joining in this thread, we just bought a '76 Argosy....gutted. Rewiring the the AC/DC systems will be fairly easy but I am unsure what is the lastest and greatest for a power management system. What would you recommend that would manage the DC, battery, shore and vehicle hookup power, and future solar?

Lastly, what guage of wire is recommended for the DC systems?

Adam
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Old 06-14-2017, 12:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-squared View Post
Hi. Joining in this thread, we just bought a '76 Argosy....gutted. Rewiring the the AC/DC systems will be fairly easy but I am unsure what is the lastest and greatest for a power management system. What would you recommend that would manage the DC, battery, shore and vehicle hookup power, and future solar? Lastly, what guage of wire is recommended for the DC systems? Adam
Based on your questions, recommend you get with a licensed electrician who works on RV restoration, solar power, etc. This is a critical fire, life safety domain.

The answers are too detailed and complex to address in this forum. There are several good commercial forum members who might work with you.

73/gus
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:08 AM   #10
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Thank you gklott.

I am familiar with life and safety regarding electric systems, since I work in the architectural and engineering disciplines. Why I ask these questions is because I have noticed such a variety in people's experiences with different wire guages, voltage drops, and systems that I was curious to what your thoughts were.

I guess I will proceed by engineeeing it from scratch.

Cheers.
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-squared View Post
Thank you gklott.
I am familiar with life and safety regarding electric systems, since I work in the architectural and engineering disciplines. Why I ask these questions is because I have noticed such a variety in people's experiences with different wire guages, voltage drops, and systems that I was curious to what your thoughts were.
I guess I will proceed by engineeeing it from scratch.
Cheers.
Excellent to know now your background now. Thanks.

For AC power, in our system upgrade, here are some examples of what I am installing:
- SmartPlug BM50S 50 AMP - stainless inlet for shore power on mid street side
- SmartPlug BM50S 50 AMP - stainless inlet for generator power on front of trailer (we use a Honda EU6500i 240V generator input)
- 6/4 Yellow Flat Festoon Cable (PVC), 105C from shore power inlet to load center
- 6/4 Yellow Flat Festoon Cable (PVC), 105C from generator power inlet to load center breaker
- Eaton CH14B100BP 100-Amp 16-Space/Circuit Type CH Load Center - removed the 100A main breaker (HomeDepot)
- Eaton CH8BFM load center Mechanical Interlock Cover, NEMA 1, Size B - mechanical interlock for the shore power and generator inputs
- Eaton CH250EPD Type CH 30mA GFI Breaker 50A/2 Pole 120/240V 10K as main shore input breaker, top left spaces (interlocked)
- Eaton CH230EPD Type CH 30mA GFI Breaker 30A/2 Pole 120/240V 10K as generator input breaker, top right spaces (interlocked)
- Eaton CHSA CH Series Whole Panel Surge Arrest Breaker 2-Pole
- Eaton CHFCAF120 20A combo Arc Fault with Ground Fault OCPDs for 4 branch circuits (AC, bedroom and inverter outlets, microwave, bath and kitchen outlets)
- Eaton CHFCAF115 15A combo Arc Fault with Ground Fault OCPD for 1 branch circuit (water heater)
- Ancor 131310 Marine Grade Electrical Duplex Tinned Boat Cable - 12 AWG, Triplex, Flat Cable, Black/Green/White, for branch circuits where I have access to rewire (kitchen, water heater, microwave/convection branches)
- Ideal Ideal 2006S crimp connectors, with Ideal 2007 splice cap insulator, made using Ideal C24 Crimp Tool. Splices placed within 4x4 metal junction boxes with metal covers

Where I could, I replaced the Mobile home/RV receptacles with:
- Hubbell DR15WHIWRTR receptacles, weather resistant (WR) and tamper resistant (TR), deco face, 15 amp, 125V, white, for outside and bathroom
- Tamper resistant (TR), deco face, 15 amp, 125V, white, for other inside receptacles (Lowes)
- 1-Gang blue plastic interior old work shallow switch/outlet wall electrical box (Lowes)
- Used all stainless screws
- Used Airstream stainless outside receptacle cover
- Nylon outlet plates inside

Does this help for AC system ideas?

73/gus
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:40 AM   #12
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That is absolutley perfect. Much thanks.

Adam
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-squared View Post
Thank you gklott. I am familiar with life and safety regarding electric systems, since I work in the architectural and engineering disciplines. Why I ask these questions is because I have noticed such a variety in people's experiences with different wire guages, voltage drops, and systems that I was curious to what your thoughts were. I guess I will proceed by engineeing it from scratch.Cheers.
For both AC and DC power system, glad to hear you are engineering this yourself. These lists are just suggestions, so please use at your own risk.

For the DC side, I retain most all the OEM DC internal wiring - basically the 6 DC circuits, electric jack, and 7-pin cable coming from tow vehicle. There are several new DC items I've added, and I use the correct NEC table sized the Ancor marine grade, 105C, duplex wire.

I ordered a custom BlueSea DC panel:
https://panelwizard.bluesea.com/panel/printable/105082
There have been a few changes, such as the 60A (not 80A) DC OCPD between the Morningstar solar charger and the DC bus. We can talk off line if you are interested.

Some of the DC upgrade components that I am using include:
- Lifeline GPL-31T batteries
- Ancor 117502 Marine Grade Electrical Tinned Copper Battery Cable (2/0-Gauge, Red from batteries
- Ancor 117002 Marine Grade Electrical Tinned Copper Battery Cable (2/0-Gauge, Black from batteries
- Ancor 242296 Marine Grade Electrical Heavy Duty Tinned Copper Lugs (2/0-Gauge, Size 3/8 Screw
- Blue Sea Systems 150A Series 187 Thermal Circuit Breakers, mounted just off each battery
- Blue Sea Systems PowerBar 1000 Stud with Cover, 8 x 3/8", for positive and negative bus
- plus covers for all connections, lugs, etc.

For charger/inverter:
- Magnum 1000W 12V Inverter /MMS1012-G
- Magnum Energy ME-ARC50 Advanced Remote Control with 50ft Cable
- Magnum Energy ME & MS Series Battery Monitor Kit (ME-BMK)
We have < 1000W inverter requirements.

I have 3 inverter branch circuit outlets, including the one in the Blue Sea panel. They feed from the 15A 120VAC GFCI breaker in the Blue Sea Panel. I used the same Ancor 131310 12 AWG wire for this branch circuit. My inverter outlets are blue and labeled to differentiate them from the mains system.

On the solar charging side:
- six Solbian 125W Flexible solar panels
- Midnite Solar MNPV6HV 4X Disconnect/Combiner Box
- Midnite Surge Suppressor MNSPD115 115V
- Morningstar GFPD-150V ground fault protection device 150V
- Morningstar TS-MPPT-60 Tristar Mppt 60 Amp
- MorningStar TriStar TS-RM-2 Solar Panel Charge Controller Meter
- Morningstar Remote Temperature Sensor RTS
- Morningstar RD-1 Relay Driver 12-48V 750mA LED Indicators
- Ancor 130705 Marine Grade Electrical Duplex Tinned Boat Cable - 6 AWG, Triplex, Flat Cable, Black/Green/White, for cable from solar combiner to charger

As I'm sure you've seen, there are many threads on AC power, DC power, solar, inverter, etc. There are some very knowledgeable, experienced commercial vendors (like Lewster) who provide excellent electrical system advice via the forums.

Hope this helps jumpstart your engineering DC system design.

73/gus
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:34 AM   #14
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Thank you again Gus. We will look over your list and see what will work.

Adam
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