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Old 11-03-2013, 11:19 AM   #1
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Floor rot under fridge

Hmmmm... Replacing my fridge and I found a serious bow in the floor and next to the fridge vent. Is this something I can leave for 6 to 12 months until I get around to pulling and replacing the cabinets?

I am a full timer and put a lot of miles on the trailer.

Using my inspection camera, it looks like the flooring is pulled up from the frame rail underneath. I will post those pics when I get them off the memory card.

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Old 11-03-2013, 11:27 AM   #2
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I just realized this is directly ahead of the street side wheel well, if that makes any difference in figuring out what caused it and/or what to do. More than likely, I am guessing it is the fridge and/or vent as the culprit but the rot and bow is certainly more towards the wheel well.
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Old 11-03-2013, 12:35 PM   #3
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Looks to me like the outriggers are sagging. The floor is bending over the frame.
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Old 11-03-2013, 01:13 PM   #4
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Does that mean the outriggers are rusted out or something?

Here are more photos from the inspection camera. What I can't understand, not having dealt with frame/subfloor issues before, is what this is supposed to look like. Looks to me as if there is a flat bar where the floor is attached that is next to a flat vertical part of the frame. I thought the frame rail would be a C channel but this possibly looks like flat bar should perhaps be welded to form the top part of the C? Or is there a flat bar runner that sits on top of the frame rail?

I've tried to orient these photos so they make the most sense. This is looking up from the inside of what I *think* is the frame rail right in front of my fridge area. They were taken with an inspection camera from inside the trailer, going down into a little hole (and with the camera curved back up) from near the center walkway. The hole is just inside a cabinet next to the fridge area, to the rear.

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Old 11-03-2013, 01:20 PM   #5
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I guess what is confusing to me is that it looks like the floor is LIFTED over the frame, not so much sagging over it. Hopefully that means that the wood is just warped upward? Those gaps have me a bit baffled and I would think that area would be flush and subfloor still screwed to the frame if it was sagging over it. Or would the outriggers kick up the floor like that if they were separating from the frame?
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Old 11-03-2013, 01:32 PM   #6
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Here's one more... and a note... this bowed section seems fairly localized to the area of water damage. Towards the rear of the trailer under the fridge, directly in front of the street wheel well. Or put another way, the bulge is pretty dramatic towards there rear of the fridge compartment and front of the wheel well.

The bulge is minimal by the time you put a straight edge at the front of the fridge compartment.

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Old 11-03-2013, 01:37 PM   #7
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Floor rot under fridge

Greetings CA_Tallguy!

If I am interpreting the photo correctly, the raised area is over the frame rail and the lower side is toward the outside wall. With this interpretation, I would suspect that you have one or more outriggers that have failed or are failing. One indicator of a failed or failing outrigger is a bulge in the banana wrap near where the floor is sloping . . . another indicator is a vertical slit in the banana wrap cut by the sharp edge of the outrigger as it falls away from the frame.

This is a guess on my part as I had a similar problem with my Overlander's refrigerator, but it didn't have the wheel wells in close proximity to its refrigerator. Your suspicion of rot from wheel spray contacting the floor is also high on the list of possible causes.

Good luck with your investigation!

Kevin
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Old 11-03-2013, 01:49 PM   #8
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I did a little inspection of the wheel well a bit ago when I was at the trailer and didn't see any obvious issues. The inside of the well looked pretty well sealed, though I will probably beef that up in any case. I took a look down the banana wrap while down there looking for holes and such, and I didn't notice a bulge. Headed back over to the trailer in a bit and will look closer. Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 11-03-2013, 03:23 PM   #9
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Looking at the banana wrap now, and thinking about the possibility of outrigger(s) going bad. If one is going bad, it most likely would be the one adjacent to the wheel well on the front side. Seems like it would be an important one!

Perhaps it could be the next one forward, even though the bowing isn't as pronounced there, maybe the effect of the sag is causing the ripple further back.


I think my next step is to use a hole saw to open up some places for inspection on the outrigger side of the frame. I was about to cut a huge couple of feet out with a rotozip but I think it better to err on the side of caution before doing something that would weaken that area even more before I'm absolutely ready to do a full repair.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:03 PM   #10
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Is one side of an outrigger exposed to the fore and aft sides of the wheels?

I've spent a lot of time under the trailer today and inside inspecting through holes... And reading threads about outriggers. I do think that I see evidence of frame separation on the outrigger forward side of the street wheels. I also see some evidence of repairs on the other three similar outriggers. But on this one in question, I see a lot of goop but not clear evidence of welding repairs like the others.

Makes me wonder why this one wasn't beefed up like the others. This one looks like the bottom was rusted out significantly from wheel spray but it was only cleaned up and filled up with vulkem.

If someone can confirm that I'm looking at the outriggers exposed next to the wheels, that would be helpful.
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Old 11-03-2013, 06:32 PM   #11
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Here are pics of where I think the outrigger is separating from the frame rail. How big of a job is it to get at this to fix? If it is exposed on one side to the wheel well, it seems like it might not be too bad... assuming that the shell can simply be jacked up in that area to replace it. Any advice would be appreciated.

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Old 11-04-2013, 07:38 PM   #12
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Can anyone help me understand what this should look like? There seems to be a big gap at the top of the outrigger in these pics taken from the wheel well. My best theory at the moment is that at some point the outrigger was coming loose and someone just welded it back on without jacking up and leveling the floor back up. It's really hard to figure out what were trying to solve here without knowing what it should look like.
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:11 AM   #13
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Well I think that I know what is causing the sag. Unfortunately, it appears the frame rail is splitting open at a seam. The little tac welds seem to have broken. So, we think most of the sag is coming from the frame rail vertical bending outward where the outriggers are attached. That magnifies to 3/4 to 1 inch sag at the outside. In addition, the outrigger at the forward side of the wheel well should be replaced.

I started a new thread to discuss the frame rail split and outrigger issues here...
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...ng-112473.html

But I still have some questions about the subfloor condition and replacement and figure since that was what this thread started about that I would post about that here.

First, I'm not sure how to decide if the flooring needs to be replaced in that area based on the assessment of the rot.

Second, will the water tank interfere with replacing a section of the floor there? Is there room above the tank to put in cleat backing plates to tie the patch to the old floor?

We are trying to decide how much of the floor to cut out. The welding repairs would be easier without the flooring, and charring from the welding would probably mean replacing it anyway. We would like to minimize disassembly of the interior as much as possible if we can. Also, we have some flexibility in adding a second reinforcement layer of plywood above the floor in the fridge area as we need to shim up the new fridge going in anyway. I would like to try for a solid repair below that if possible as it feels like the "right" way to fix the floor.

Finally, I worry about the existing floor having some memory of the sag and bowing over the rail.
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:10 PM   #14
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The floor does not look too bad. Usually there is a second piece of plywood under the fridge. If the floor is just discolored then I would leave it be. Where is the outrigger? Is it on the front or back of the wheel well? Your axle mounting plate maybe coming loose from the frame. This axle mounting plate stiffens the frame around the axles and also gives them a place to bolt to. If the outrigger in question is around the wheel wells you may have problems getting to both sides of the frame to see what the frame is doing. You can pull the wheels off and that will exposed the center portion of the frame where the axle mounting place is. In your other thread, your frame had a hole in it. I would be worried about that. Find out what is damaged and rusted and what is not. Check under the beds in the bedroom and see if the floor is rotted out. I bet that it is and that maybe what is causing some of this.

Here is what mine looked like. Nothing like that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach when you find something like this.



http://www.motorcycleproducts.org/AS...s/IMG_4707.JPG

Perry
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