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Old 03-03-2010, 09:49 PM   #15
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I had to remove the lug nuts on a duallie that had the studs coated with Anti-Seize.
3 hours later, after I had snapped or stripped the threads on all (32) the seized lug nuts off the studs and replaced them with studs and lug nuts that had no Anti-Seize on them, I will never put Anti-Seize on a lug nut and stud. And no, they didn't seem to be over-torqued, the nuts were stuck on the studs. I stripped the threads off several studs when removing them. And no, they weren't left-handed thread. There was no corrosion on the threads, and it was a fairly late model truck. The owner had put Anti-Seize on them so they'd come off easier, obviously it didn't work as planned.
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:40 PM   #16
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What Brand and year model Dualie? Were they torqued or air wrenched on? If the nuts were stuck on the studs sounds like someone got a little carried away with an air wrench.
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63 View Post
I had to remove the lug nuts on a duallie that had the studs coated with Anti-Seize.
3 hours later, after I had snapped or stripped the threads on all (32) the seized lug nuts off the studs and replaced them with studs and lug nuts that had no Anti-Seize on them, I will never put Anti-Seize on a lug nut and stud. And no, they didn't seem to be over-torqued, the nuts were stuck on the studs. I stripped the threads off several studs when removing them. And no, they weren't left-handed thread. There was no corrosion on the threads, and it was a fairly late model truck. The owner had put Anti-Seize on them so they'd come off easier, obviously it didn't work as planned.
Most interesting that the Anti-Seize worked as a Loc-Tite. Most interesting. How'd it do that?
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:09 PM   #18
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Hi, there is an old saying. "If the factory didn't do it when they designed, tested, and assembled it, you needn't do it either." My vote for anti-seize on lug nuts, is no.
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:40 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by kmpro View Post
What Brand and year model Dualie? Were they torqued or air wrenched on? If the nuts were stuck on the studs sounds like someone got a little carried away with an air wrench.
It was a 2002 Dodge in 2004, and the owner of the truck swore he put 'em on with a socket and breaker bar.

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Originally Posted by NevadaGeo View Post
Most interesting that the Anti-Seize worked as a Loc-Tite. Most interesting. How'd it do that?
The brand he said he used a called Nev-R-Seize.

Believe me when I say you couldn't pay me to use the stuff on lug nuts after that.

Obviously, it was an atypical result, but I'm not going to experiment on my vehicles to try to duplicate the problem...
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:45 AM   #20
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Helloooo! We are talking here about Anti-Seize Lubricant here and it has either aluminum or copper incorporated in it to give correct torque values. Not just plain lube guys. Incidentally, Bill, that survey also found over torquing by air wrenches combined with grease. Torquing and retorquing several times a season will stretch threads and cause lug failure too. Lug torque on my 310 is from 130 to 180 lbs ft of torque. I personally torque mine at 155 lbs ft. I believe that will keep the wheels on my wagon.
I was not talking about a “survey” of torque forces applied to wheels studs in repair shops, or a survey of methods of torquing lug nuts. This was a study (not a “survey”) of wheel “failures”, with the conclusion that the failures were due to over torquing during assembly attributed to the recent implementation of lubricant on the wheel studs. The Mfr stopped using any lube in wheel studs after this. Any fluid, even H2o, will act as a lubricant reducing friction durring assembly, resulting in greater torque applied to tension of the system (bolt). You can use lube if you like, you should also reduce seating torque if you do or you risk over stressing the bolt. You will also lose some retention torque. Once your seating torque is reduced, it is a slippery slope to your nuts falling. Or is that old age?

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Old 03-04-2010, 08:15 AM   #21
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Hi, there is an old saying. "If the factory didn't do it when they designed, tested, and assembled it, you needn't do it either." My vote for anti-seize on lug nuts, is no.

Agree.....
IMPORTANT!
Service technical publication

"Proper installation requires that the wheel lug torque be set to the recommended specification for your vehicle. Sometimes these torque specifications can be found in your vehicle's owner's manual, however more often than not you will need to refer to your vehicle's shop manual or obtain them from your vehicle dealer/service provider.

Unless specifically stated otherwise, wheel lug torque specifications are for clean and dry threads (no lubricant) that are free of dirt, grit, etc. Applying oil, grease or anti-seize lubricants to the threads will result in inaccurate torque values that over tighten the wheels.

A thread chaser or tap should be used to remove any burrs or obstructions of the threads allowing the lug hardware to be turned by hand until it meets the wheel's lug seat. Once lugs are snugged down, finish tightening them with an accurate torque wrench. Use the appropriate crisscross sequence (shown below) for the number of wheel lugs on your vehicle until all have reached their proper torque value. Be careful because if you over torque a wheel, you can strip a lug nut or hub, stretch or break a stud or bolt, and cause the wheel, brake rotor and/or brake drum to distort."
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Old 03-04-2010, 08:25 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
Agree.....
IMPORTANT!
Service technical publication

"...

A thread chaser or tap should be used to remove any burrs or obstructions of the threads allowing the lug hardware to be turned by hand until it meets the wheel's lug seat. ...."
Has anyone ever seen a tire shop do this? I sure haven't.
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:29 AM   #23
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Has anyone ever seen a tire shop do this? I sure haven't.
Granted not too often, but when I was 'bust'n knuckles,(dealership) if I couldn't turn the wheel nut by hand it was time to clean/chase the threads.
When I asked an old-timer years ago why it was so important to use a torque wrench on free turning wheel nuts he explained that you should think of the threads as springs. Proper torque stretches the spring to keep things tight, over tightening with lubricant can stretch the spring to the breaking point.

Something even I could understand...back in the '60's
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:34 AM   #24
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Cool Hard Nuts Solution

I have never seen any tire shop with a set of thread chasers or taps either one. Back in the day and still now I have a full set of the stud chasers and taps in my toolbox. I specialized in front-end alignment and chassis type stuff during the time I was turning wrenches. These tools were indispensible as far as I was concerned because I would be called on nearly every week to repair the damage done to a stud or lug bolt by some untrained person at a tire shop. I had to replace some of the studs, but thread chasers saved some of my customers additional expense.
To use or not to use Anti-Seize on your lugs is a choice you can make for yourself. I have used it for over 30 years on my stuff without any problems, and the same was true for my 100s of customers who had work performed in my shop. If you ever have to change that tire at the side of the road, you will appreciate the anti-seize enabling you to use those Mickey Mouse tools furnished with the vehicle to remove that wheel with less hassle.
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:39 AM   #25
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I use an industrial brand that states it will not effect torque. The main problem is over torquing and over stressing bolts. Once a bolt has been over torqued it can weaken. Any lubricant left on the bolt can cause problems with torque and anti-seize working. The job of anti seize is to stop parts from rusting together, stop galvanic action of dissimilar metals and corrosion. I have fitters and millwrights apply it with greasy hands drop bolts in the dirt and give it that extra tug. The procedure we use is to clean threads completly and use a contact cleaner to remove any oils left.
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:52 AM   #26
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Hard Nuts Solution

Halleujah! Gives me encouragement that others have had good results too!
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:13 AM   #27
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If you ever have to change that tire at the side of the road, you will appreciate the anti-seize enabling you to use those Mickey Mouse tools furnished with the vehicle to remove that wheel with less hassle.
It would be considered…foolish?...to travel without a full tool kit. As we have multiple campers, I keep mine under the truck rear seat so it is with me at all times. This includes a decent torque wrench, 4 way lug wrench, spare parts for my WD hitch, etc. It has been under my seat for many years and I cannot tell you how many times I have called upon it to fix something on the camper. Also have additional camper specific tools and parts in each camper. Must be something to do with all my years in Scouting…
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:52 AM   #28
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Hi, there is an old saying. "If the factory didn't do it when they designed, tested, and assembled it, you needn't do it either." My vote for anti-seize on lug nuts, is no.
Let's not forget that the engineer's are often overruled by the accountants.
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