Argosy 20' MH restoration

[GREEN ARGOSY]

Brad,
Thank you for your reply.

If Airstream didn't use any sealant between the bottom of the plastic wheel well cover and the metal frame then water would easily migrate from under the plastic into the metal frame area. That would cause your "heaps of dust and rust".

Yeah, I'll check the sealant when removed the plastic wheel well cover!
But I don't want to see that, I'm afraid of finding some problems.

I think Airstream made them that way because they weren't concerned about the long term problems that would be caused by building them the way they did.

I see, I think so too.
In my case, plywood was exposed at front wheel wells.
So I've made cover with aluminum composite board.

Yes, I'm glad Tony pushed me to use Coosa! It was expensive and I had to spend a day just making the trip to purchase it but I'm glad I did.
I made the replacement wheel well covers out of steel because in the later years Airstream did the same thing and the results were better.

Wow! That's a really premium material!!
I have never seen it over here.
Your steel wheel wells are looking so good!

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by GREEN ARGOSY

I think the distance from the wheel well to the back of the coach is total value of the measurement from the wheel well to closet wall (440mm) + the tray "A" (490mm) + the tray "B" (340mm) = 1,270mm.

Thanks Yuki, this is great news.

I plan to install a 750mm wide bed and so this leaves around 500mm for the fridge.....assuming Peanut is the same dimensions!!!!!

[GREEN ARGOSY]

Originally Posted by martin300662

Thanks Yuki, this is great news.

I plan to install a 750mm wide bed and so this leaves around 500mm for the fridge.....assuming Peanut is the same dimensions!!!!!

Martin,

I can measure the correct dimensions when removed the all of stuffs in the Argosy.
But I think those are nearly the same. (I hope..)

By the way, are you going to replace a water tank?

[GREEN ARGOSY]

I detached the engine again.
Because I need to put away an over head cabinet in the Argosy,
but there isn't enough space between the Argosy's entrance and the garage wall. So I decided to use an engine bay.


Yes, it is no joke.
I'm just serious.


And my new trans mission has arrived!
I'll install that on my Argosy in the near future.
I need to check a drive shaft length, and make new holes for mounting brackets on a frame.

Anyway I'm happy with met the new transmission.

[bkahler]

Wow! Pulling the engine to remove a cabinet. That has to be a first!!

I assume you had the same problem with trying to removing the cabinet via the rear window, not enough room in the window and the garage wall.

When I shortened my drive shaft I believe I had them remove about 3.375". That dimension is based on the type of tail shaft and yoke that I installed. Yours may be different.

Brad

[GREEN ARGOSY]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Wow! Pulling the engine to remove a cabinet. That has to be a first!!

I assume you had the same problem with trying to removing the cabinet via the rear window, not enough room in the window and the garage wall.

When I shortened my drive shaft I believe I had them remove about 3.375". That dimension is based on the type of tail shaft and yoke that I installed. Yours may be different.

Brad

Brad,

Yes, we didn't have enough room around except the forward, however it's definitely not smart way!

Thank you for the information!
I'll check it on mine.
I sent a drive shaft to the transmission shop, then it was shortened proper length by them.

I hope it would perfect fit.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by GREEN ARGOSY

Brad,

Yes, we didn't have enough room around except the forward, however it's definitely not smart way!

Thank you for the information!
I'll check it on mine.
I sent a drive shaft to the transmission shop, then it was shortened proper length by them.

I hope it would perfect fit.

Who did the calculations on how much to shorten the drive shaft?

[GREEN ARGOSY]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Who did the calculations on how much to shorten the drive shaft?

The transmission shop did calculate that.

I measured the overall and the tail housing lengths on the original trans, and sent some pics to them.
They measured the 4L80E's lengths then calculated and shortened the drive shaft that difference between the TH400 and the 4L80E.

Their overall lengths depend on the combination with tail housings and output shafts I think. Maybe those are not many of variety.
But I'm not sure.. I've never converted transmissions yet.

If the drive shaft won't fit the drive train, that's a critical issue on my project!

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by GREEN ARGOSY

The transmission shop did calculate that.

I measured the overall and the tail housing lengths on the original trans, and sent some pics to them.
They measured the 4L80E's lengths then calculated and shortened the drive shaft that difference between the TH400 and the 4L80E.

Their overall lengths depend on the combination with tail housings and output shafts I think. Maybe those are not many of variety.
But I'm not sure.. I've never converted transmissions yet.

If the drive shaft won't fit the drive train, that's a critical issue on my project!

Your drive shaft should end up being the correct length by doing it that way. You may find that the mounting holes for the transmission mount do not equate to the same amount that was removed from the driveshaft.

I think my driveshaft was shortened 3.375 inches but the mounting holes changed by 2.875 inches.

I did not drill the new mounting holes in the frame until I had the transmission bolted to the engine and sitting in place. I then temporarily bolted the frame cross member to the transmission and marked the new frame mounting holes at that time.

Brad

[Smartstream]

Just another option from the older generation. I have done more than a few mods that required driveshaft work. I also happen to live within a few miles of one of the best driveshaft shops in the northwest. That being said they advocate mounting everything in the chassis first. Once the engine, trans, crossmembers, etc. are mounted where they will live, it's easy to measure driveshaft length. You can use u-joint to u-joint, flange, carrier bearing or whatever. Just make sure you are very clear to the shop what and how you measured. Carry on Lads.

[bkahler]

Yuki, one thing to remember. The short part of the drive shaft is what needs to be shortened! If they shorten the long section you'll need to find a new driveshaft.


Brad

[GREEN ARGOSY]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Your drive shaft should end up being the correct length by doing it that way. You may find that the mounting holes for the transmission mount do not equate to the same amount that was removed from the driveshaft.

I think my driveshaft was shortened 3.375 inches but the mounting holes changed by 2.875 inches.

I did not drill the new mounting holes in the frame until I had the transmission bolted to the engine and sitting in place. I then temporarily bolted the frame cross member to the transmission and marked the new frame mounting holes at that time.

Brad

Brad,

Thanks for more information!
Hopefully, I'll be able to play with the transmission this weekend.
I'll try what you have done!

Yuki, one thing to remember. The short part of the drive shaft is what needs to be shortened! If they shorten the long section you'll need to find a new driveshaft.

Yes!! I sent the short one (the front part) to the shop.
It's very hard to find new driveshaft over here.
So I'm very cautious with this part.

The first, I need to install U-joints on the drive shafts before fitting the transmission.

[GREEN ARGOSY]

Originally Posted by Smartstream

Just another option from the older generation. I have done more than a few mods that required driveshaft work. I also happen to live within a few miles of one of the best driveshaft shops in the northwest. That being said they advocate mounting everything in the chassis first. Once the engine, trans, crossmembers, etc. are mounted where they will live, it's easy to measure driveshaft length. You can use u-joint to u-joint, flange, carrier bearing or whatever. Just make sure you are very clear to the shop what and how you measured. Carry on Lads.

Dan,

Thank you for the message
I'm jealous of you. we don't have many driveshaft shops in Japan.
At least the shop who sold my new transmission located far away from my place.
I agree with that you told about. I think so too!
That the best way to measure the driveshaft.
But I can't believe the measurement value from myself, so I requested to measure and modify the driveshaft to the shop.
Probably they're familiar with transmissions and drive train, I should trust their work.

I hope it will go well..

[Smartstream]

I hope it does go well for you.

I'm surprised it is that difficult to find in Japan. Here you can buy the ends and they weld to the tubing in any size and length and they straighten and balance in basically the same machine. It's really pretty simple. I've watched them do it several times. Heavy trucks with inexperienced drivers destroy many driveshafts.

[GREEN ARGOSY]

Originally Posted by Smartstream

I hope it does go well for you.

I'm surprised it is that difficult to find in Japan. Here you can buy the ends and they weld to the tubing in any size and length and they straighten and balance in basically the same machine. It's really pretty simple. I've watched them do it several times. Heavy trucks with inexperienced drivers destroy many driveshafts.

Thank you

I know several shops who can modify driveshafts.
Commonly they are special tuning shops like a sports car tuner, manufacturing of limos or whatever.
However its cost is pricey..
(Shortened and balancing costs are about $800)
So I mustn't mistake to measure the driveshaft length!

The transmission shop discounted the total price of parts and processing cost when I ordered the trans, that's why I requested mods the driveshaft to them.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by GREEN ARGOSY

Thank you

I know several shops who can modify driveshafts.
Commonly they are special tuning shops like a sports car tuner, manufacturing of limos or whatever.
However its cost is pricey..
(Shortened and balancing costs are about $800)
So I mustn't mistake to measure the driveshaft length!

The transmission shop discounted the total price of parts and processing cost when I ordered the trans, that's why I requested mods the driveshaft to them.

Wow, that's definitely not cheap. Shortening my driveshaft, replacing u-joints (3), replacing the slip joint due to wear and then balancing cost $483. I guess I don't feel so bad now!

Brad

[GREEN ARGOSY]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Wow, that's definitely not cheap. Shortening my driveshaft, replacing u-joints (3), replacing the slip joint due to wear and then balancing cost $483. I guess I don't feel so bad now!

Brad

Yes, that's not cheap..
Wow! Your price was good, I want to go to the U.S.

[GREEN ARGOSY]

This is my short driveshaft.
It was shortened about 80mm from the original.


This is a tail housing its length about 140mm (5 3/4"?)


It says "#8677464"


And here is the original fixed (Bolt-on) yoke. I'm going to use it on the 4L80E.


When the yoke was inserted to the output shaft, they hit then I could be able to tighten the bolt.
That made a little gap between the yoke and the tail housing.


It's like this picture on the original TH400.


I want to make the gap like this on the 4L80E as well.

BUT....


When I tightened the bolt, the yoke hit the tail housing.
It couldn't move and rotate, just like fixed.

Hmm... I think its output shaft and the yoke are mismatching.

I asked the transmission shop, they said "you can use that combi without the bolt".
I can't believe it, are they correct?
And what should I do?
Should I use a slip yoke instead of the bolt-on one?
Or I need to make some spacer or collar and insert it onto the output shaft?


Anyway the output shaft protrusion amounts are similar with the TH400 and 4L80E.

Thank you for in advance.

Yuki,

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by GREEN ARGOSY

Attachment 353113
This is my short driveshaft.
It was shortened about 80mm from the original.

Mine was shortened 86mm. The 80mm should be enough.

Attachment 353114
This is a tail housing its length about 140mm (5 3/4"?)

Attachment 353115
It says "#8677464"

I will check but I think that's the same as mine.

Attachment 353116
And here is the original fixed (Bolt-on) yoke. I'm going to use it on the 4L80E.

That should work. Make sure there is no wear on the shaft where the oil seal rides.

When the yoke was inserted to the output shaft, they hit then I could be able to tighten the bolt.
That made a little gap between the yoke and the tail housing.

Attachment 353117
It's like this picture on the original TH400.

Attachment 353118
I want to make the gap like this on the 4L80E as well.

BUT....

Attachment 353119
When I tightened the bolt, the yoke hit the tail housing.
It couldn't move and rotate, just like fixed.

Hmm... I think its output shaft and the yoke are mismatching.

I had the same problem. You have to make a spacer that slips onto the output shaft and slides down into the transmission. You would then bolt the yoke into place and it presses against the spacer to keep the yoke in the right location.

The tail housing you installed (as did I) is designed for a slip-yoke setup. You can't use a slip-yoke with the type of driveshaft that is on the Argosy.

I asked the transmission shop, they said "you can use that combi without the bolt".
I can't believe it, are they correct?
And what should I do?
Should I use a slip yoke instead of the bolt-on one?

NO, do NOT use a slip-yoke.

Or I need to make some spacer or collar and insert it onto the output shaft?

Correct, you need to fabricate a spacer.

Attachment 353120
Anyway the output shaft protrusion amounts are similar with the TH400 and 4L80E.

Thank you for in advance.

Yuki,

To calculate the length of the spacer needed you need to insert a small ruler down into the tail shaft housing until it hits a bearing inside the transmission.
Take a measurement from the bearing to the outside edge of the tail shaft housing. That measurement minus the amount of yoke that is supposed to be inside the transmission is how long you make the spacer.

The attached sketch should help you see what I'm talking about. The spacer should be the same diameter as the yoke on the outside with a large enough inside diameter to easily slip over the output shaft. You don't want the spacer to bind on the shaft when sliding it into place.



Brad

[GREEN ARGOSY]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Mine was shortened 86mm. The 80mm should be enough.



I will check but I think that's the same as mine.



That should work. Make sure there is no wear on the shaft where the oil seal rides.



I had the same problem. You have to make a spacer that slips onto the output shaft and slides down into the transmission. You would then bolt the yoke into place and it presses against the spacer to keep the yoke in the right location.

The tail housing you installed (as did I) is designed for a slip-yoke setup. You can't use a slip-yoke with the type of driveshaft that is on the Argosy.



NO, do NOT use a slip-yoke.




Correct, you need to fabricate a spacer.



To calculate the length of the spacer needed you need to insert a small ruler down into the tail shaft housing until it hits a bearing inside the transmission.
Take a measurement from the bearing to the outside edge of the tail shaft housing. That measurement minus the amount of yoke that is supposed to be inside the transmission is how long you make the spacer.

The attached sketch should help you see what I'm talking about. The spacer should be the same diameter as the yoke on the outside with a large enough inside diameter to easily slip over the output shaft. You don't want the spacer to bind on the shaft when sliding it into place.

Attachment 353131

Brad

Hi Brad aka my teacher,

Thank you very much!!
You give me the answer that is what I needed.

I'll make a spacer, and never use a slip-yoke on the Argosy.
I'm going to install the trans and driveshafts then measure the length of the spacer needing.

Yuki,