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01-24-2015, 06:01 PM
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#1
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Rivet Master
2006 22' Interstate
League City
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 698
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Rear and Side View Cameras in 2007 AI
Howdy,
This is my first post but I don't feel like much of a noob since I've been lurking here for several months. You also know my better half as InterBlog so I probably don't need much more of an introduction.
I'm waiting on some fittings before I fix our fourth holding tank leak, so while I'm not all covered in blue sewage, I've decided now would be a good time to get started on one of my larger Interstate projects: The Rear and Side View cameras. The thought of drilling holes in painted sheet metal scares me a bit but the AI is alot more utilitarian than the '65 Mustang I toy around with so I'll probably get over it in short order.
As great as the side mirrors are in the AI, the lack of a rear view is something we both miss from our daily drivers so getting a back up camera was obvious. But how to view that camera on the other hand wasn't quite as clear since the T1N Sprinters don't have room in the dash for a double DIN head unit that could serve as a monitor. (I purchased a NOS dash on ebay for $60 to cut up for the purpose of upgrading to an AirPlay headunit at some point but I'll save that for another time).
InterBlog also complains (alot ) about not being able to see well in the passenger mirror during high contrast or night driving conditions so I also wanted to integrate side view cameras but I was having a difficult time trying to come up with a convenient way to switch the monitor input between cameras.
I tried to find an electrinic video switch but didn't immediately see one so I headed over to DigiKey.com to brouse their analog integrated circuits to find something that could be used in a three way video switch. Luckily, before I went too far down that rabbit hole, I found a monitor with the built in switching capability and it could even be wired directly to the turn signals. SCORE!
Here is the 9" monitor and cameras sitting on my desk:
I also located a 2006 Sprinter Service Manual with wiring diagrams so I think I'm set there.
I should be able to run the video cables for the sideview cameras through a grommet in the firewall for the side cameras son I don't think I'll have much of a problem with either side view camera. But how do I run a cable from the roof next to the third brakelight up to the front of the AI? I removed the vinyl wrapped closeout pieces by the rear doors but the task of snaking the video cable through those areas looks somewhere between difficult to impossible. After previously spending several hours and not being able to find an internal route to run the temp sensor from the converter to the battery under the passenger seat, I reluctantly admitted defeat and ran the cables under the chassis. Surely there is someplace behind the cabinets where I can fish a line so I don't have to go that route this time.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions and I'll keep you posted on my progress in this thread. But I'll leave the final build write up to InterBlog's superior writing skills.
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01-24-2015, 07:55 PM
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#2
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LB_3
Surely there is someplace behind the cabinets where I can fish a line so I don't have to go that route this time.
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Those panels that are laid on an angle— to form both a top and rear to your overhead lockers and unnecessarily reduce your storage volume— are actually there to hide cable runs, and have a space behind them that is larger than it really needs to be. You should be able to go along the top of the driver's side all the way from the rear doors to over the driver's door in a straight run.
But don't ask me how to get those panels off for access…
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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01-25-2015, 05:12 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2006 22' Interstate
League City
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 698
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Decided to attack the low hanging fruit this afternoon.
Hopefully I can get to the passenger side later this week.
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01-26-2015, 07:14 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
League City
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,139
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And I have an adjunct question here, relating to the rust potential in older Interstates, which is an issue I haven't thoroughly researched yet. Maggie might know the answer to this one. We know that Airstream's original Sprinter body penetrations were not done correctly and the result was rusting around those cuts (I heard that this was the case with X number of model years, not sure how many). What SHOULD be done to properly guard against this scenario?
LB_3 took Rustoleum and carefully encapsulated the exposed metal surfaces (in this case, blue Rustoleum because we had it on hand). And then of course the electronic eyeball itself has a grommet and a rubber gasket to further restrict water access to the area. Yea or nay on sufficiency?
BTW the magnet in this photo is not integral to the camera - its purpose was to catch the metal filings as the cuts are made.
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01-26-2015, 07:33 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2024 Interstate 19
Fulton
, Maryland
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,883
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Great idea using the magnet to trap the metal filings.
__________________
- - Mike
--------------------------
2024 Airstream Interstate 19e AWD
Previous: 2013 Airstream Interstate 3500 Ext Lounge
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02-04-2015, 08:18 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2006 22' Interstate
League City
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 698
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Last weekend I installed the passenger side camera. Unfortunately this was a brand new learning curve to scale due to the lack of access to the inner fender since it serves as the engine's cool air inlet.
I decided to chase what the service manual calls a repeater lamp plug wire, (the orange turn signal on the fender).
Then tapped the mounting holes since I couldn't get a nut to the back of the holes.
I was done by 2 PM but forgot to take a finish photo.
Next weekend the monitor install.
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02-08-2015, 06:00 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
League City
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,139
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A few comments from the helper, here.
We ran the wire for the rear camera yesterday. It proved to be straightforward as there was continuous bulkhead and accessible trim on the starboard side. We encountered a Sprinter rib or other obstruction here and there, but no real barriers. We fished wire using one of the segmented poles from my old REI Half Dome 2 tent (copper-colored in the photo), which seemed especially appropriate in a baton-passing sense -- part of the old camping home helping to prepare the new.
This next part is potentially of interest to Maggie and Bugs and Dan and Bob and all other owners of T1N Interstates.
In order to get this wiring done and monitor installed, we had to remove a lot of the interior surface finishes. In doing this, I was surprised to find that Airstream had installed no insulation whatsoever between the cab roof of the Sprinter and the inner trim shell - there is nothing under the shell except the bare metal roof.
I had noticed a horrible temperature differential (hot OR cold, depending on prevailing outdoor conditions) between the back of the vehicle and the nose of the vehicle, but I had assumed that was inevitable and due to the exposure afforded by the generous windshield and side windows.
However if you look at the overall package, the roof itself actually constitutes a large fraction of the total cab surface area, so insulating it might have a positive impact on our ability to regulate temperature in the cab. We bought a small roll of R13 fiberglass and plan to add it as we put everything back together post-camera-wiring. That is, unless I find Sprinter Forum advisories that insulation there would be contraindicated for reasons that have not yet occurred to me.
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02-08-2015, 04:03 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
League City
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,139
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Our system is semi-live, although we don't have the wires tucked up and our Interstate put back together yet. I can already tell that this is going to be cool. I see significant stress reduction in my driving future.
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02-09-2015, 10:59 AM
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#9
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2 Rivet Member
2014 Interstate Ext. Coach
Basking Ridge
, New Jersey
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 89
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That looks like much better imagery then I get out of the Pyle Monitor installed on my 2014.5.
__________________
SCARLET BISON
Silver 2014.5 Interstate EXT
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02-09-2015, 07:09 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2011 Interstate Coach
Overland Park
, Kansas
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,798
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It looks about three times as big as the Pyle mirror/monitor.
Wonder if it would be possible to get a monitor that could show all four cameras in a divided screen ala security monitors.
__________________
Glass half full or half empty to an engineer is the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
2011 Interstate SOLD! Upfitted 2017 Transit 350. SOLD!
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02-10-2015, 05:39 AM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
League City
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73shark
It looks about three times as big as the Pyle mirror/monitor.
Wonder if it would be possible to get a monitor that could show all four cameras in a divided screen ala security monitors.
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So far, in testing mode, I am thrilled with the quality of the image. It surpasses my expectations because I thought there would be much more of a contrast problem, especially with mounting in the mirror position instead of in the dash... you know, when you get an LCD screen in bright daylight, the screen is often too dark. But this one has substantial brightness and contrast ranges that are manually adjustable.
As for screen division, I don't think it would be a value-add. Remember, my husband is setting this thing up so that when the vehicle's left or right turn signal is actuated, the image automatically switches to the appropriate camera. Therefore, whenever we glance up, we are going to be looking at what we are supposed to be looking at with extraneous information deleted. I think a multiple image display would be too distracting. There is not enough time while driving to mentally process more than the one relevant image.
The only image-related question that remains unanswered is - do we want the thing to display true image or mirror image? It's an important issue. My husband (a mechanical engineer) initially set it up to display mirror image because it's in the mirror position at the top of the windshield and therefore the brain should be expecting a mirror-like function. But when I look at this device, I'm not registering it as a mirror - I'm registering it as a small television set and I'm expecting to see a true image. We will have to fuss with that functionality to determine what is best.
I'm also looking forward to seeing what the night-time infrared images look like. That was really the Last Straw for me on realizing that we needed this upgrade. I was trying to drive the Interstate for occasional work purposes a city of 6.5 million people after dark, in the rain, in rush hour. Never was a more efficient suicide mission defined. It was simply impossible to do the kind of lightning-quick lane changes that are demanded under those circumstances without a better system of visibility.
We are currently being slowed down on finishing this project because of the insulation issue. I refuse to re-install the cab liner without some insulation going up there, but the gap between the liner and the Sprinter's metal roof is of variable thickness so it is difficult to judge what needs to be added where. A uniform application of R13 fiberglass is not working, so we have to devise another solution. Suggestions on this issue would be received with enthusiasm.
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02-10-2015, 05:20 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
2011 Interstate Coach
Overland Park
, Kansas
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InterBlog
It was simply impossible to do the kind of lightning-quick lane changes that are demanded under those circumstances without a better system of visibility.
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I try to avoid those when driving a six ton vehicle.
__________________
Glass half full or half empty to an engineer is the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
2011 Interstate SOLD! Upfitted 2017 Transit 350. SOLD!
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02-10-2015, 07:07 PM
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#13
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InterBlog
A uniform application of R13 fiberglass is not working, so we have to devise another solution. Suggestions on this issue would be received with enthusiasm.
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R13 fiberglass? You actually have room anywhere in a Sprinter to put at least 3½" of fiberglass? The mind boggles. You should know that compressing fiberglass batting reduces its R-value, so it's no longer R13 after you squish it to make it fit.
You'd be better off going with a layer of 10mm Prodex, which is a closed-cell polyethylene foam sandwiched between two layers of aluminum foil, which has an R-value of 11.5 if installed with a small air gap between the skin of the van and the Prodex.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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02-10-2015, 07:44 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
2006 22' Interstate
League City
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 698
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I like the radiant barrier products. Unfortunately on reassembly day InterBlog added the insulation to the scope of the project just as we were passing the fiberglass bats at the hardware store. Like all of our projects, this one is suffering from scope creep as well as cost and schedule overruns. Perhaps we'll try the Prodex this weekend when we put the headliner back in (again).
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02-10-2015, 07:53 PM
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#15
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Keen amature
1975 20' Argosy 20
Chestfield
, Kent
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LB_3
..... Like all of our projects, this one is suffering from scope creep as well as cost and schedule overruns.
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02-11-2015, 05:22 AM
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#16
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LB_3
Like all of our projects, this one is suffering from scope creep as well as cost and schedule overruns.
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The image martin300662 posted is a classic that occupied a favored position on our office bulletin board for decades, but this one really drives the point home for me…
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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02-11-2015, 06:03 AM
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#17
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
League City
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist
R13 fiberglass? You actually have room anywhere in a Sprinter to put at least 3½" of fiberglass? The mind boggles. You should know that compressing fiberglass batting reduces its R-value, so it's no longer R13 after you squish it to make it fit.
......
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More or less. Much of the Interstate already appears to have something akin to R13 between the outer shell and the inner aluminum goodness (remember the Sprinter ribs - not 3+ inches deep, but an obligatory gap does exist, and even a reduced R factor is better than none). In snatching up a twelve dollar roll of R13 at Lowes, I was following in kind.
With vehicles as with houses, very often when we happen upon something that was not done that clearly should have been done, there's a discoverable reason for it. The answer to this question "Why would Airstream leave this air gap with no insulation in a vehicle that is chronically known for having climate control issues" appears to be, "The gap is not as uniform as it is in the remainder of the vehicle and therefore it's a p.i.t.a. to insulate and this is the likely reason they skipped over it hoping that nobody would notice that the cab is perpetually on either the broil or the deep freeze setting as a result."
We will try another product (preferred, if we can find one locally that is suitable), or we'll trim the R13 down to only those portions of the roof where we can verify sufficient clearance (for instance, there is enough space in a good-sized area at the top of the cab, as verifiable via the dome light cut-out in the liner). Or both. Not ideal, but I'm hoping it will end up being better than the original nothing.
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02-16-2015, 05:29 AM
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#18
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
League City
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InterBlog
More or less. Much of the Interstate already appears to have something akin to R13 between the outer shell and the inner aluminum goodness (remember the Sprinter ribs - not 3+ inches deep, but an obligatory gap does exist, and even a reduced R factor is better than none). In snatching up a twelve dollar roll of R13 at Lowes, I was following in kind.
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I stand corrected. There was actually 4.5 inches of space between the cab shell (Sprinter) and the inner OEM (Airstream) liner. In many places, but not everywhere, and that's why the R13 wasn't installing so well.
Layer of Dynamat (ca-CHING) followed by layer of radiant barrier followed by replacement of the liner. We will see how that works.
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02-16-2015, 01:41 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2006 22' Interstate
League City
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 698
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The insulation we used was a self adhesive foil backed foam product used to insulate ductwork. It was listed as an R-3 but I'm hoping that the radiant barrier will make it considerably better than that.
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03-08-2015, 09:02 AM
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#20
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
League City
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,139
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My husband likes to work methodically and carefully. Speed of project execution of course gives me ample opportunity to introduce scope creep...
Anyway I say that as an explanation for the fact that we now have both side cameras operational, and they do indeed flip to the relevant side of the Interstate as soon as the turn signal is actuated. We don't have the rear camera installed yet (options for its mounting are being methodically evaluated), but I have already road-tested the turn cameras, and they are a godsend. Friday night was my first solo boondock, as I needed to teach a very early class in east Texas on Saturday morning. With no sidekick in the passenger seat, there was no one to shout a confirmatory "clear" for those lightning-fast rush hour scoot-right lane changes as I forged my way through Houston Friday evening. But the camera was even better.
There is one downside to this system, however - they can be surprisingly distracting, much more so than an ordinary "a$$ cam" utilitarian backup camera such as my minivan has. They are capable of seeing so much more than the human eyeball that they sometimes become unexpectedly more entertaining than TV. Some new phenomenon will elicit a spontaneous "What the hell is that?!" reaction from me, as this 20-second YouTube example shows.
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