Airstream better up their game.....the herd is advancing

[RoadJager]

I find it interesting that Thor Industries bought the world wide corporation but excluded the North American operations due to issues of Roadtrek mismanagement. That is one way to eliminate the competition, buy-em and/or let them mismanage themselves into infinity(or jail).

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by RoadJager

I find it interesting that Thor Industries bought the world wide corporation but excluded the North American operations due to issues of Roadtrek mismanagement. That is one way to eliminate the competition, buy-em and/or let them mismanage themselves into infinity(or jail).

Thor is probably not unhappy about the way things worked out. But financial irregularities were discovered during the due diligence acquisition audit, so it looks like Thor initially intended to purchase and operate EHGNA (includes Roadtrek). Thor may, however, had plans (as you suggest) to consolidate their many lines of trailers and class b's to eliminate competition. We'll never know for sure.
.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

Thor is probably not unhappy about the way things worked out. ....

I dunno. The stories coming out from people who have been caught up in this thing are pretty awful -- and they are just going to keep coming, especially going forward as buyers cannot make warranty claims. It might open up more market opportunity for Thor in the long run, but in the short term, I wonder how many customers are going to hesitate for thinking that Thor might be paint-able with much the same brush. Like, is there something that makes Class B manufacturing disproportionately subject to risk or fraud.

To say the same thing a slightly different way, some events do more to undermine overall consumer confidence than to bolster any given brand. My Instagram post from the other day, which was accompanied by the question, "Do you think this is worth the paper it's written on now?" (This RV show sign was announcing a dealer's warranty to supplement RoadTrek's standard warranty).

[AirTurtle91]

Anyone looking for Interstate alternatives should research the 2019 Coachman Galleria. Many standard features that hopefully Airstream will copy. Pro Air standard is a deal changer. Just waiting for Airstream to respond. Putting in 4 AGMs took too long. Lithium option could be years away.

[Alex AVI]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

My Instagram post from the other day, which was accompanied by the question, "Do you think this is worth the paper it's written on now?" (This RV show sign was announcing a dealer's warranty to supplement RoadTrek's standard warranty).

INTERBLOG - I don't even think it's worth using the paper it's written on as toilet paper. I did have a good laugh reading the pdf Though, seriously, actually the warranty is very legit -BUT- the chances are there is only 1 person in 10 billion people who would be able to satisfy the regimented maintenance & inspection & records submittal process. That person is going to need unlimited funds to have every & all maintenance paid/done by "the approved" RV professional service facility. No DIY allowed. The very strict intervals and inspections need to be done on an annual basis with records of such inspections required to be submitted within a very narrow timeframe. It is also not an Exclusionary Warranty and it is a Zero Tolerance Warranty - meaning the only items on warranty are specifically listed (very short list) and the first violation of missing maintenance by just a few days or even missing the mailing date of required annual inspection records will instantly VOID the warranty. I liken this "RV Lifetime Warranty" to having my rv maintained in the same manner and regimen as Air Force One or the Space Shuttle undergo, all done using government pricing structures

[InterBlog]

Creative destruction:

The RoadTrek scandal is really throwing open the doors on multiple aspects of the RV industry (The Herd!) and the people who act as its shills. It's good to finally see that happening.

There are two kinds of shills:

(1) Those who are posing as objective observers but who are really being paid by the producers of the products they endorse, and, those who aspire to be paid (financial motive).

(2) Those who are not paid directly, but whose egos are fragile and who will tap-dance frantically to sustain the illusion that the brand they chose to buy is the best brand, and that anyone's suggestion to the contrary constitutes a personal indictment of sorts (psychological motive).

I'm a forumnivore, reading widely across many different sites. I will sometimes get PMs and gmails in which people ask me, "Is poster X a shill Type 1, or a shill Type 2?"

Rarely can I confirm the answer, but I personally consider Type 2 to be the more pernicious of them. Type 1 only has his wallet on the line. With Type 2, it seems to become a matter of their very soul (as they perceive it).

Anyway, the amount of dirty laundry being aired after the RoadTrek collapse is refreshing. And people who got banned or blocked by shills for questioning RoadTrek right before its spectacular fall had the good sense to screengrab what was happening to them, so that they could deliver the "I told you so" now. They deserve the chance.

Simultaneously with RoadTrek, we are seeing prominent anti-shills reach new tipping points, including Robin Barrett, whose week-old RV-related warranty video already has 40,000 views. Those are extremely good numbers in the RV realm - for comparison, FitRV has been around for years and is very respected, but only has about 7,000 views on a video of the same vintage. Someone on another forum asked if we could make this video by Robin required watching for all prospective buyers who visit the forums with newbie questions. Wouldn't that be nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Brdeizkxoc

[SteveSueMac]

That’s a great outline. I find your “type 1 shills” far more egregious than what you describe as a “type 2”. There’s such a thing as post-purchase rationalization. I’m not sure that makes one a “type 2 shill” according to your definition, but it is a particular type of cognitive bias that explains some irrational brand justification which feels less an act of “bad faith” than that of your “type 1s”.

http://nlpnotes.com/post-purchase-rationalization/

[InterBlog]

Wow - I had no idea that this phenomenon has been formally recognized. We just call 'em like we see 'em based on common sense. It's easy peasy to spot these guys - they are the first to pooh-pooh the idea that any given new buyer could be having real problems. Or if they are forced to admit that there is a problem, they will do what they can to minimize it or isolate it (e.g., blaming it on some freak event rather than on a factor intrinsic to the manufacturing process).

"Post-purchase rationalization, also known as Buyer’s Stockholm Syndrome, is a cognitive bias whereby someone who has purchased an expensive product or service overlooks any faults or defects in order to justify their purchase. It is a special case of choice-supportive bias."

Edit: LTV announced their Wendlands partnership just three days before Robin Barrett released that video above, in which she describes 120 days of her new LTV rig being in the shop.

Given the market penetration of both the shill and the anti-shill for this brand, it's basically popcorn time on this one. Ordinarily, a shill might get away with concealing the downsides of ownership, but in the Wendlands' case, their misleading efforts cheesed off a lot of RoadTrek owners who are now motivated to watch closely and "out" them if they start engaging in future cover-ups on a new platform. It could get interesting.

[wachuko]

InterBlog, thank you for that video... oh goodness...



So far I have been able to fix the stuff that I have found with mine... knowing that taking the AI to the dealer and just having it sit there for weeks waiting on parts or availability of their techs, is not something that I want to do... specially when I read about dead batteries stories and now seeing that video on the additional items that they messed up while they had it...


For now I will continue to send emails directly to Airstream and hopefully they can continue to send me the parts for me to do the repairs...



Now... I do not use it that often and that probably will bite me in the ass when I start to use it more often and it is out of warranty...



So far this is what I have had to do:


1. Heating pad coming unglued... I used 3M spray adhesive and then used black duct tape... no issues since.


2. Magnetic switch for rear light in overhead cabinet. This one I received via mail from Airstream.


3. Awning deploying on its own... the solution came from the folks here... I resealed the cable in the back. Have not given it a chance to test as I just remove the fuse now as a safety precaution... so not really sure if I tackled the root cause.


4. Wiring for the blinds coming unglued. I just used better 3M double face tape.



I do try to go every two weeks to exercise everything. Turn on the generator, A/C, heater, run the water pump, etc... Which reminds me that I need to stop by this afternoon to do it all again...

[wachuko]

I liked the clarity of this video on the Hymer/Roadtrek fiasco...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGoFWneF9Mo

[gmillerok1]

I am seriously considering upgrading to a 2020 Coachmen Galleria which will hit the dealers lot in May. I had some concerns as to build quality, as Forest River products are about as famous for fit and finish as Thor products. But upon inspection I found that the fit and finish was equal to Airstream and the cabinetry is of high quality, with no staples but rather dovetail construction. Insulation is much better that what is in my 2011 Interstate (and from what I can determine, Airstream just puts a of a few random pieces of glass insulation in the walls and a very thin strip in the ceiling and nothing behind the bath/shower). The floor in the Airstream is, however, superior, with the foam sandwiched between plywood. Plumbing is better, too, with all the pex inside the Airstream, while Coachmen puts some outside. They do offer a "Polar Package" which in theory provides freeze protection. To be honest, we won't be doing any below freezing trips so that's not a factor.

In addition, Coachmen is apparently trying hard to innovate, using optional Phase Change insulation (which acts as a thermal heat sink equivalent to a 24" cinder block to maintain ambient temperatures); an optional Pro Air 12vdc 20,000 btu AC that uses half as much power than the Dometic 13,500btu unit Airstream uses and is also much quieter;a optional 600 amp lithium battery system (using Xantrex 3000 watt inverter, and Lithionics battery components and a Nations 2nd alternator) or the standard equipment 300 amp AGM and 100 watt panel and LPG genset; optional 300 watts solar (unfortunately, they use crappy flex panels).They also will install optional levelers. Everything else if pretty much equivalent from what I can see except the price-Airstream charges a premium for the name.

The only thing lacking is the warranty, which is one year-and really no warranty at all.

For the price of a base Airstream, I can get all a Galleria with all the options.

But other than that, I can't see any downside. I cannot find any negative reviews or complaints about the Galleria. Am I missing something, because otherwise, the herd IS advancing and leaving Airstream far behind.

[gmillerok1]

Inspected a 2019 Galleria. The herd is not advancing after all. Not even close.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by gmillerok1

Inspected a 2019 Galleria. The herd is not advancing after all. Not even close.

Please give us few things that made you change your mind so fast. I was also thinking the Galleria might be an option.

[gmillerok1]

Primarily the very poor quality of the back cushions and upholstery which would be very uncomfortable to sleep or even sit upon, the poor quality of the longe hardware mechanism itself (the back would flex), the completely unusable bath deisgn that would make showering almost impossible (as we do shower in ours), and even the poor quality seat coverings even on the OEM front seats we’re deal breakers.

They get a lot right, but skimp on the things that are most important. Being a 12 year veteran of class B living I know what is important and what is not. It didn’t take long to see this is not an option I would be happy with for the long term.

[Tobbun]

I was in similar scenario last year (Galleria Li3, Coachman Ethel, AI Interstate) when buying first one. On paper the Galleria seemed perfect but actually sitting in one, walking through it there were too many little fit/finish issues. Besides wife liked the Tommy Bahama lounge and when the wife says I like this one on a huge purchase she was a bit hesitant on I went with it. Still love the AI just want more battery, solar, quieter generator and AC. [emoji3]

[wachuko]

Originally Posted by Tobbun

...Still love the AI just want more battery, solar, quieter generator and AC. [emoji3]

I second that!!

[ChrisCow]

Originally Posted by Tobbun

Still love the AI just want more battery, solar, quieter generator and AC. [emoji3]

Same here. In my mind, the items that I found flaw with, I can fix. In other vans, it wasn't something I couldn't do much about. Every van is a compromise and my wife also loooved the Tommy interior as yours did.

I've started the upgrade process: as I write this, my van is at AM Solar's facility getting 600 Ah of lithium and another 100W of solar (400W total). I'm trying to sell the Onan genset as I think at this point it's just added weight and I've never used it.

[gmillerok1]

Thanks for the pics. Man, that Victron Inverter/Charger is a beast!

How are the isolating the alternator?

[Mansderm161]

You will love it! It is life changing! I did all that in December at AM solar....top of the line. Enjoy!

[Tobbun]

Great pics. That kind of an upgrade is on the list and I have bugged Lew a few times. Wish they were closer to Texas. Keep the pics coming.