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Old 01-02-2019, 05:28 AM   #41
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INTERBLOG - I have never looked at businesses through any political lense. ...
Neither did most other people until quite recently. But numerous corporations and a few professional athletes have decided that their primary duty is not to be rendered in the service of their stock (stock = literal or figurative), but rather they'd prefer to deliver their pet precious ideology in lieu of that for which they were actually hired.

I won't get mixed up in it unless a retailer initiates the nonsense. Then it's time to vote with my wallet. In most cases, my objection is not to the politics per se, but rather to the fact that the entity is being led by someone so incorrigibly stupid and egotistical as to launch the "holier than thou" campaign. I'll go elsewhere, thanks.
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:45 AM   #42
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a few professional athletes have decided that their primary duty is not to be rendered in the service of their stock (stock = literal or figurative), but rather they'd prefer to deliver their pet precious ideology in lieu of that for which they were actually hired.

Kind of like telling LeBron to shut up and just play basketball?
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Old 01-02-2019, 08:16 AM   #43
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...

Kind of like telling LeBron to shut up and just play basketball?
The only thing I know about LeBron is that he's tall and he collaborated on a segment of the HGTV show Rehab Addict. Before that show, I'd never even heard of him. Anything else he has done, I'm not aware of.

I do know about the football controversy because it's impossible to read the news ticker without having the issue shoved in one's face. And I think it's THE *exquisitely dumbest* thing I've ever seen. Football ratings are in free-fall because nobody wants to pay hard-earned money to see that kind of garbage. They pay money to be ENTERTAINED. If some football players want to make political statements, that is absolutely perfectly fine - let them retire first and do it *on their own time*, instead of taking down an entire national recreational sport with them.

The underlying lack of ethics is astounding to me, but I'm self-employed person so perhaps I see things differently. Like entertainers, I get paid to meet the needs of my customers in a voluntary free market exchange of fee for talent, period. What if I were to go to my customers and say, "I'm going to take your money, but rather than delivering what I've promised to deliver in exchange for that money, you are going to have to suffer through my personal grandstanding instead"?

It's mind-boggling that anyone would even consider it - it's no different than any other forced religious preaching. It's immoral as well as unethical. But Camping World clearly did not see it that way any more than some of the sports people did. And now Camping World is the most devalued mainstream RV-related provider of all, apparently. Duh, I myself would be out of business in two months if I behaved similarly. This is not rocket science.
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Old 01-02-2019, 08:51 AM   #44
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Duh, I myself would be out of business in two months if I behaved similarly. This is not rocket science.
Agree. It's pure stupidity for anyone offering a service to tick-off half their potential customers. Yet, it happens everyday. I just shake my head and smile.

As Bill Engvall says "Here's your sign!"

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Old 01-02-2019, 08:56 AM   #45
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General anecdotal measurement of "the herd" -

Airstream share at the recent Class B rally was 11%. Screengrab from (and HT to) "My Van Trip to Tennessee" YouTube video by Humble Road.

This is a completely biased opinion from me.

I just purchased my Interstate in November of 2018. I did exhaustive research, looked at LTV, Winnebago, RoadTrek (specifically Etrek and the others), and some others in person. I was open to buying used or new.

I even looked into building it out myself or having it built out by a company.

The closest competitor for me personally was the RoadTrek Etrek for my purposes.

In the end, the fit and finish of the Interstate and the features of the underlying chassis configuration are far superior to any of these other brands even given all the known shortcomings.

The determining factor for me was that I am willing to replace the entire house electrical system with aftermarket because of how crappy in general ALL motorhome electrical systems are. So I went with a used model that had the colors etc that I wanted with the intention of using it until it wasn't useful and replacing anything that I want to replace with the savings I had with the price of the used model.

I personally couldn't stomach the interior of the Winnebago or the chassis from an design and finish perspective.

The cabinetry on all others is just not up to spec for me look and quality. The LTV was close and the ETrek was decent.. but LTV no longer makes the B, only the Bplus.

If the Lithium system is a $30k option, I would rather just have an airstream interstate and pay Lew to upgrade for me or do it myself if I had the time.

Just FYI the Ultramobility Guy on Youtube has done reviews on most Class B's and a decent job. Here is the Travato review for example.

You can scroll through his other videos so to see other class B's. I'm not affiliated with him in anyway. But I did watch all of his Class B videos during my process.
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Old 01-02-2019, 09:04 AM   #46
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Who is LeBaron? I surmise from the posts he is NBA star. Sorry for my ignorance - being a short guy, as a kid I was always discouraged (even ridiculed many times) to not get involved in the tall person's sport.
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Old 01-02-2019, 11:09 AM   #47
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MANSDERM161 - this is why I am counting my blessings that I can do some maintenance and upgrade mods myself. Even if under warranty or willing to pay them to do the work, the long wait is frustrating. Also, having resources in this forum has & will continue to be a big help to me/us in getting things fixed when dealer network can't squeeze as in right away. Without help from this forum, I would be lost.

Being a new owner, I now realize that sitting back waiting for one month service appointments at dealers and on top of that waiting for parts from Airstream or Mercedes for another 2-3 weeks if ordered by the dealers is detrimental to enjoying the RV. I am a long time Jeeper and DIY'er so once I have learned all this new stuff I will be in a better position than depending on RV dealers. I am currently attending "Airstream Interstate Forum University". Hope to be caught up soon.

This forum is 100% excellent!!!
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Old 01-02-2019, 12:40 PM   #48
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Being a new owner, I now realize that sitting back waiting for one month service appointments at dealers and on top of that waiting for parts from Airstream or Mercedes for another 2-3 weeks if ordered by the dealers is detrimental to enjoying the RV.
CHARLIEOSCAR - the one thing I do because dealer is only 20mins from me is if they diagnose a problem and long wait on parts, I pickup my unit and return when parts come in. Yes, it PITA but I refuse to leave my rv just waiting on parts for even 1 week. Exception is if it is a driveability/safety issue. My house a/c never worked properly from mile zero with Firefly. Dealer kept it for 1 week without fixing and then said I have to wait 2-3 weeks more for parts. I retrieved my unit, talked to Firefly & Jackson Center and they sent me the parts and I fixed it myself in 4 days, shipping time included. 3 weeks later, dealer calls saying parts came in.
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:24 PM   #49
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My dealer is just 18 rural miles from me. Mine has not been back at the dealer in 2 years except to replace a cracked outside shower that was cracked when I bought the unit.

I have had very few problems with the unit and those I fixed myself. I know of nothing in the Airstream portion of my AI that I can not fix or replace myself.
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:45 PM   #50
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"Airstream Interstate Forum University".
CHARLIE OSCAR - In short, acronym = AI FU
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Old 01-02-2019, 02:56 PM   #51
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CHARLIE OSCAR - In short, acronym = AI FU
Y'all are going to find yourself tango uniform'd if the mods take exception to this line of jocularity.

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Old 01-02-2019, 03:01 PM   #52
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(Edit: Camping World is the retailer that decided to go culture warring about 16 months, with its CEO telling people of certain political affiliations not to shop at their stores. The relative numbers suggest those people may have taken heed.)
There is more than one version of that story. Snopes reported on it, and found that the statement was not about people of any certain political affiliation.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ca...rld-ceo-trump/
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:35 PM   #53
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Y'all are going to find yourself tango uniform'd if the mods take exception to this line of jocularity.

INTERBLOG - Hehe, I hope not since no real obnoxious words were spoken I think they been pretty cool about things taken a bit close to the edge so long as it's meant in good fun and not maliciously directed to harm someone (well, of course me thinks so, does not mean me is right).
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:38 PM   #54
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...

(Edit: Camping World is the retailer that decided to go culture warring about 16 months, with its CEO telling people of certain political affiliations not to shop at their stores. The relative numbers suggest those people may have taken heed.)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/rv-stoc...ss-11546351380
For what's it's worth, that's not what he said at all.

The reality is that if their sales dropped, it may be because others suffered the same mistake I made when I took my Interstate there to replace the AC. Backed into and destroyed my Stowaway, didn't disclose it and thought I wouldn't notice when they tried to bend it back using a fork lift, and then damaged the roof by dropping the unit on it when they installed it as well as walked all over the roof and dented it, and it took two weeks for that privilege. I'll never, ever, use CW again for any service. It simply couldn't have been any worse.

So it's not likely because of what the CEO said, it's more likely because of how he runs the place. If I could give it a minus five stars, I would.
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Old 01-02-2019, 04:14 PM   #55
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There is more than one version of that story. Snopes reported on it, and found that the statement was not about people of any certain political affiliation.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ca...rld-ceo-trump/
JCL - Agree 100% there are at least 3 versions. But he still screwed up as a CEO for not getting ahead of the bad press. CWH has been on a downward spiral since end of 2017. Red line is price, Blue line is forecast trend. 2nd graph smooths out the daily ripples. It does not bode well for anyone holding, employees, and customers see the same. Who would want to hold CWH at this trend line? Having such problems to begin with, why would he inject himself into a controversy? He may be morally & ethically right. And he has the conviction to say what he said and abide by his principles. Admirable traits for sure. But if he had to clarify his statement(s) on multiple occassions, he already is behind the 8-ball. And if he is willing to sacrifice his business to stand up for what is right & righteous, then he is to be commended and admired. But he is also taking the entire ship with him and responsible for the people who works for him. He personally may be able to withstand the fall, but I would bet most of his employees can not.

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Old 01-02-2019, 05:09 PM   #56
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a few professional athletes have decided that their primary duty is not to be rendered in the service of their stock (stock = literal or figurative), but rather they'd prefer to deliver their pet precious ideology in lieu of that for which they were actually hired.

Kind of like telling LeBron to shut up and just play basketball?
For starters, YES....not that I care about basketball either, or any other "celebrity's" opinion on ANY subject...

I simply consider the source, and drive on...ignoring the opinion.
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Old 01-03-2019, 05:48 AM   #57
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For starters, YES....not that I care about basketball either, or any other "celebrity's" opinion on ANY subject...

I simply consider the source, and drive on...ignoring the opinion.
probably like most people do you
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Old 01-03-2019, 08:21 AM   #58
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..... But he still screwed up as a CEO for not getting ahead of the bad press. ...
The exact syntax of what he said does not matter to the public - the public knew his intentions. The fact that he took the bait and said anything at all is a boundary transgression, and is both a symptom and a cause of what's going on performance-wise with his company.

Coincidentally, a local professional association tapped me to develop a pro bono presentation on professional ethics along these very lines. I'm scheduled to deliver it in March of 2019 in a central Houston location, weekday evening time slot. If anyone wants info on attending, please PM me. I've got some interesting case studies on what can and does go wrong when boundaries are transgressed in professional working scenarios. It will qualify as continuing education credit (1 PDH) if you have certain technical licenses or certifications.
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Old 01-03-2019, 03:27 PM   #59
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The fact that he took the bait and said anything at all is a boundary transgression, and is both a symptom and a cause of what's going on performance-wise with his company.
INTERBLOG - Yes. His big mistake - "he took the bait". The mistake announced his position to the buying public. Every CEO has a position on these issues. But most are not so stupid to let it affect their future viability in a competitive market. There are countless CEO's and athletes and celebrities alike who will not take the bait (regardless of which side of the issue they fall into). If I was so stupid, I would've been fired by HP. He clearly did not take the same dozens of in-service Public Relations & Customer Service seminars that lowly college-grad engineer newbies in HP were required to take before we were released to service our paying customer base. So what's that say about his employees? Worse than him? Glad I never went there for anything. <end rant>
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Old 01-11-2019, 05:13 AM   #60
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No good place for this link but it involves SOB in "the herd", so I thought I'd cross-link it here because it certainly is an eye-opener for the amount of work the author voluntarily put into it.

TL;DR - a customer with extensive engineering experience claims to have found potentially lethal technical violations in Hymer's designs. He went to war with the company and, rather than devolving into the usual customer grumbles that eventually disappear without a trace, it looks like it'll be a fight to the finish line. He dropped this document below today.

The first question that comes to readers' minds will probably be, "How does Airstream do with respect to both safety issues cited in that document?" Answer: IDK. I haven't parsed it in detail.

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/at...1&d=1547181653
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