I know what you'll say...

[Alluminati]

The larger Toyota trucks are all tow-ready. Not an option.
Sorry you don't get a tow/haul mode. I appreciate what it does for me. But you'll get most of the effect by shifting into S mode. Mostly it provides lower shift points which you get in S mode. But I've heard the tow/haul mode also gives stronger throttle response, and increases assistance to power steering and brakes. The difference is subtle, but appreciated.

[AirstreamCSH]

I get the desire to make your desired vehicle fit the task at hand. We faced a similar quandary with a Sequoia we wanted to keep and looked at airbags and loading just so. In the end, we realized that we didn't want the tail wagging the dog after watching a bunch of accident & out of control rig videos. We ended up with an F250 after making a detailed spreadsheet of what we'd honestly be taking and having decided we genuinely needed the full crew cab for the dogs. Once we did that, the choice was clear but I didn't want to make that choice.

I will say that although the crew cab F250 is large, like all things, you get used to it and it becomes second nature.

So I'm suggesting you be honest with yourself on how you will load both trailer and TV and that at the end of the day, the rated payload is what is printed on the sticker, not what you know or believe to be the true capability.

Best.

[GettinAway]

Please disregard my previous post. I didn't realize the size and weight of the Land Yacht. Not sure I'd pull it with a Landcruiser. Unless the 2017s are a lot more vehicle than the 04s. We did switch to a Tundra for a TV. Still have the LC because it only has 112,000 miles on it. That's just barely broke in for a LC. The Tundra takes all the worry out of pulling the AS. It's overkill for a 23FB, but it's also peace of mind.

[AirMiles]

Payload is also the limiting factor on my truck. But what I found was the "payload" estimate on the tire information sticker was not accurate due to the difference of my weight versus the estimated driver weight. Your actual payload limitation is equal to the DOT sticker's GVWR minus the total of the loaded vehicle's axle weights with weight distribution connected. The only way to know your actual payload limit is to weigh the Land Cruiser and Airstream. So the next best alternative is to estimate these weights.

Since you already have the Land Cruiser, go weigh it with the passengers and minimum cargo you would carry in the LC when traveling with an Airstream. Then find the DOT sticker's GVWR and subtract the actual scale weight of your Land Cruiser. This difference is the actual payload you have to work with in selecting a new Airstream.

Then I would compare the tongue weight listing on the Airstream brochure for each Airstream model you are considering to the actual payload weight determined above. You may get many opinions on how to estimate an Airstream's tongue weight, but in my experience, the Airstream brochure's tongue weights are "optimistic" at best and therefore may be a good number to use as a weight distributed tongue weight.

So go weigh your tow vehicle and subtract the scale weight from the GVWR to determine your actual payload. Then go to the Airstream brochure and select a model with a tongue weight below your actual payload.

If your preferred Airstream model exceeds your vehicle's GVWR, you have a choice to make. 1) You can just buy the Airstream of your dreams and ignore your payload limitation. I'm certain your Land Cruiser could actually pull any Airstream. I personally would not make this choice, but many RVs on the road exceed at least one of their weight ratings. 2) You can choose a smaller Airstream. Or 3) You can buy a tow vehicle with more payload capacity after actually and weighing your Land Cruiser with your new Airstream to determine if you really are exceeding its GVWR with your actual loaded rig.

Good luck with your decision. Buying an Airstream is a process.

[MarkFinATX]

Originally Posted by Alluminati

Airbags do an excellent job of hiding evidence that your load is out of balance. They level the load, but don't move the weight to where it needs to be. They can actually take your load even further out of balance, and seriously compromise steering and braking. AVOID AIRBAGS.

Weight distribution is critical. Not only do you need a WD hitch, you also need to adjust it properly. You'll find excellent instruction on YouTube. When WD is properly set, there is ZERO benefit from airbags.

I'd agree with the basic premise that airbags aren't a substitute for weight distribution but they can be helpful if used properly. I have a Hensley Arrow Hitch Apparatus (HAHA) on my Pendleton, shown as 27' 8"(so for length purposes I just call it 28 ft.) that I pull with a 2015 F-150, Lariat, V-8 gasser. What I love about airbags is that I can lift my back end when hitching up using the backup camera and line up the stinger to the hitch receiver for height without having to get out and use the jack. Other than that I have my weight distribution bars marked and being lazy I use a Dewalt 20V cordless drill to adjust them after hooking up.
Plus if you use your TV for hauling a bunch of other stuff when you're not towing the leveling feature is nice.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by munrokicker

"17 Land Yacht". Thanks!

In my first post my brain read: 17 foot Land Yacht! Okay, I don't know all the models, but I was confused by a 17' land yacht.
Now I get it, a 2017 Land Yacht. 28'

I understand the Land Cruiser is not based on the Tundra or Tacoma, but is it's own entity. I'd have to go with the weights on the door frame.
I hope it works for you, the LC is a great vehicle.

[munrokicker]

Originally Posted by GettinAway

Please disregard my previous post. I didn't realize the size and weight of the Land Yacht. Not sure I'd pull it with a Landcruiser. Unless the 2017s are a lot more vehicle than the 04s. We did switch to a Tundra for a TV. Still have the LC because it only has 112,000 miles on it. That's just barely broke in for a LC. The Tundra takes all the worry out of pulling the AS. It's overkill for a 23FB, but it's also peace of mind.

Suspension and wheelbase are the limiting factors. The recent LCs have the Tundra 5.7 and the guinea pigs for the new ZF 8 speed which I think the Tundra gets next year (very nice).

[Silver.Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by munrokicker

Suspension and wheelbase are the limiting factors. The recent LCs have the Tundra 5.7 and the guinea pigs for the new ZF 8 speed which I think the Tundra gets next year (very nice).

I have a 2014 Tundra that I use to pull a 2004 22 foot Safari.

With the WD system by Equalizer, I have plenty of tow vehicle for that trailer.

My post is to comment that at the beginning, I was putting everything including the kitchen sink into the back of the truck, and had some concerns about load limits.

After a couple of years of experience, I find my truck bed is half empty and I am looking for things to fill it up, but still leave the space behind the rear axle for very lightweight items like empty blue boys, small fold-up tables, Little Giant safety step ladders, etc.

Bottom line is that unless you have some serious issues requiring specialized gear, or lots and lots of people, you may find that your "honest assessment" of what you need to take may change over a couple of years.

When I keep taking things and not using them, I have to look hard at why I am dragging that stuff all over the country "just in case".

[Alluminati]

Originally Posted by MarkFinATX

I'd agree with the basic premise that airbags aren't a substitute for weight distribution but they can be helpful if used properly. ....
Plus if you use your TV for hauling a bunch of other stuff when you're not towing the leveling feature is nice.

Airbags seem like a good idea, but my opinion of them changed radically when I saw THIS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBZu39pQ8Gg

[USAtraveler]

I get the sense that too many people think a WDH is the cure-all for towing a heavy trailer behind a lightly sprung TV. I'm sure we've all seen vehicles cruising down the highway with their nose pointed skyward and a heavy trailer pushing down the back end of the TV...definitely a poor combination. Slapping a WDH into the mix and cranking it up until the trailer and TV are riding level may be even more hazardous though. The reason being it can transfer more weight to the front axle than it was designed to carry, overstressing the steering mechanism, wheel bearings, tires and brakes. You would be better off by installing air bags to level up the TV & trailer and allowing the tongue weight of the heavy trailer to remain on the TV rear axle which by design is more capable of handling the load. A better solution would be to lighten the tongue weight, but that isn't always feasible. An even better solution would be to get a smaller trailer or bigger TV.

[Bill M.]

Nobody said it yet. So I guess I will. I do not have a LC and am not familiar with it. If it is rated to tow the trailer. why not? I suspect the new trailer rating also includes load carrying capacity and safety as well as the hill climb results. I see Airstreams towed with many different TV's.

Personally I really like towing our 25' with a Dodge 2500 diesel. The down side is it is the short wheelbase quad cab and there is no room for passengers in the back seat. A 2 person TV for sure. Of course the dog likes having his own personal space and full width seat. Put it in tow/haul mode and it sure does a fine job of towing an Airstream. And I like carrying the generator and other stuff in the back of the pickup with the ease of getting it in and out.

And yes, when we were in Alaska running without the trailer on the dirt roads we felt beat up every night.

[rmkrum]

Clearly, based on the video documentation of BOTH situations, I'm sticking with weight distribution.

All airbags can do is make the vehicle appear to be level. The tipoff to the real problem is the large reduction in weight on the steer axle caused by airbags alone. That is where potential loss of handling and control will happen...

Weight distribution clearly distributes the tongue weight back to the front axle, (as well as to the trailer axles) and would improve steering stability...

In my experience4 towing, adjusting the weight distribution properly makes a huge difference in the handling. When I have the WD jacks on my ProPride set properly, the truck steers in a stable manner. If I'm too light on the WD, the front end and steering feels 'floaty' and imprecise.

Would be nice to have a set of the scales like they used in the video, but it's clear to this engineer that weight distribution is the only way to go here...the measured numbers tell the tale. Measurements are the only way to be sure what is going on.

[munrokicker]

We looked at the F150 as well but were surprised that, even with the convenience of a bed, we'd get very little additional payload when spec'ed with similar features on our LC. The F250 on the other hand is complete overkill and could tow two Land Yachts up a wall while carrying another in it's bed

We're doing a sort of "US Tour" for a year so I wonder if those here choose the 3/4 tons because it's less fatiguing from a towing standpoint. My wife has zero experience with towing.

Also, do any of you have experience with the parks scrutinizing the total length? The LC/LY combo would be about as compact as you can get. The F250 seems it's almost as long as the trailer!

[Alluminati]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

In my experience4 towing, adjusting the weight distribution properly makes a huge difference in the handling. When I have the WD jacks on my ProPride set properly, the truck steers in a stable manner. If I'm too light on the WD, the front end and steering feels 'floaty' and imprecise.

Nailed it! During the first couple weeks of owing our trailer, I got that 'floaty' feeling, ignorantly thinking 'that's just how it feels' when I'm towing. When I got to the scales, I discovered my load was out of balance. I pulled to the side, and tightened up the spring bars. The change was remarkable. It was like I snapped the truck and trailer together. Previously it felt like the truck and trailer were in a tug 'o war. Now they felt like a unit. The next CAT scale down the road confirmed that the load was well balanced.

Last fall I replaced the spring bars on my Eaz-Lift hitch because they were worn where they connected to the chains. The slight change in design had me second guessing if I had them adjusted to the correct link when I hitched up. Rather than get weighed again, I experimented a little by tightening to the next link. Clearly I got it too tight. The ride was unsettled, and bumps made the truck porpoise. When I asked Mrs if she noticed a difference in the ride, she confirmed that it didn't feel right; she described it as "wishy washy" (whatever that means, lol). At the next gas stop I adjusted the bars back down, and immediately the unit felt snapped back together; settled, planted, sure footed, and calm.

[rmkrum]

Yup. It's real obvious when you hit the sweet spot. I find it varies a little depending on how I have loaded the truck and trailer. The big thing I find is to get the front end 'planted' just firmly enough

[Alluminati]

Originally Posted by munrokicker

We looked at the F150 as well but were surprised that, even with the convenience of a bed, we'd get very little additional payload when spec'ed with similar features on our LC. The F250 on the other hand is complete overkill and could tow two Land Yachts up a wall while carrying another in it's bed.

We're doing a sort of "US Tour" for a year so I wonder if those here choose the 3/4 tons because it's less fatiguing from a towing standpoint. My wife has zero experience with towing.

Also, do any of you have experience with the parks scrutinizing the total length? The LC/LY combo would be about as compact as you can get. The F250 seems it's almost as long as the trailer!

Could you please send a link to a video of that F-250 climbing the wall?

We've covered 8000 miles since we got our trailer last July. So far the only driving my wife has done is backing into campsites as I watch for clearance.

You raise a good question. Is a heavier sprung truck more or less fatiguing than a lighter one? Does a heavier truck have a harsher ride? Does a harsh ride cause fatigue?

I believe your LC has the same 5.7L engine that I use pulling my 34' trailer. It's not much good as a sprinter on a steep grade, and it doesn't climb walls too well, but it is entirely sufficient to our needs. The worst fatigue comes from being in a hurry to meet a schedule. I don't get tired unless I have a deadline. One main feature of being self-contained is flexibility of when/where you spend time. Slow down; enjoy the ride. If you're in a hurry, catch a plane.

At 34', there are times we get frustrated in campgrounds with short and/or steep campsites with tight turns. But so far we've never been turned away. Easy pull-through slots seldom have the best view. But shorter trailers don't have the amenities we enjoy. There's always compromise.

[USAtraveler]

Originally Posted by Alluminati

Airbags seem like a good idea, but my opinion of them changed radically when I saw THIS:

I would not put a lot of credence in the data and conclusions of this video. Simply put, the comparison was a sham. First of all, they took their initial fender height measurements with the heavy WD ball mount already hanging out behind the end the truck. A skeptic might say that weight is not enough to affect the fender height measurement. But when we are measuring height differences to a 1/16", yes...it makes a difference.

Then they dropped the 1000# trailer tongue onto the WD ball mount and concluded it caused the front end to rise and weight to decrease several hundred pounds. The problem here is that the WD ball is several inches farther out behind where it would have been with a simple "stinger" inserted directly into the receiver. The extra distance...longer moment arm for you engineering types...increased the leverage exerted by the 1000# trailer tongue + the extra 100# of the WD hitch, lifting the front end and decreasing its weight more than if the moment arm had been shorter as it would have been with the simple ball mount.

When it came to inflating the air bags, they simply did not pump them up enough. By their own measurement, the back fender measurement was still lower than the front. This is incorrect. For one thing the headlights would still be aimed to high. The back end should have been higher than the front...the normal stance of an unladen truck.

Achieving this degree of forward rake with the trailer connected by continuing to add more air to the bags will lift the entire truck...both the front and rear fender measurement will increase, but the rear will eventually go up more. Weight on the front axle will decrease, but in the larger scheme of things by a negligible amount...not by the higher amount depicted in the faulty video.

Also true, weight on the rear axle will increase. But in our real world case with the 842# tongue weight of the OP's Land Yacht, his Land Cruiser's 1320# payload should be able to handle it easily enough...assuming he's not also carrying the kitchen sink & refrig where the 3rd row seat used to be.

[Alluminati]

Originally Posted by USAtraveler

I would not put a lot of credence in the data and conclusions of this video. Simply put, the comparison was a sham.

Unlike you, I DO put a lot of credence in the data and conclusions of this video. My own experience validates much of what they said.

Following standard practice for setting up a WD hitch, measuring fenders front and back with and without load, I noted substantial lift in my front fender prior to applying WD. With WD properly engaged, the measurements fell exactly back in line as prescribed. As I said in a previous post, the front end felt "floaty" and unstable when WD was partially engaged, but entirely "planted" and secure once properly adjusted.

I'm guessing your trailer is well below the capacity of your truck for you to be able to tow without WD, or that you have not taken your rig to the scales.

[slowmover]

If the LC is still equipped with solid front/rear axles, then it's time to move to something better

Wheelbase that short and center of gravity that high don't auger well for solo, much less towing, stability.

[rostam]

LC has only solid rear axle (front is independent suspension). My guess is that 99% of tow vehicles on the road have a solid rear axle. I would not worry about that one bit. What I would worry about is the really short wheelbase of LC. My "guess" is that you would not be happy pulling a Land Yacht given LC's short wheelbase and small gas tank (frequent refueling). I would think a Sequoia or Tundra would be a better choice. My 2 cents.