Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-20-2017, 02:46 PM   #41
4 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Vintage Kin Owner
Sonoma Co. , California
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 297
I think what Doug and Tim are overlooking about axle loading is this. Towing any kind of trailer puts more weight on the tow vehicles rear axle. This greatly improves rear wheel traction and braking effectiveness. This advantage more than offsets the small decrease in weight on the front axle caused by the leverage effect of hanging a few hundred pounds weight behind the rear axle. A WD hitch helps level the longitudinal alignment of the TV/trailer. But as George states, A WD hitch is required (for handling) when the TV rear axle capacity is neared. That is pretty extreme.
Any medium to large SUV I can think of and ALL pickup trucks are fully capable of towing a small travel trailer without a heavy and expensive hitch. If you guys or anyone else feels safer and more secure with your ($2450 + install) ProPride hitch, that is your choice. But what you are actually gaining is less certain.
__________________

USAtraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2017, 03:02 PM   #42
Rivet Master
 
Mollysdad's Avatar
 
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,841
I once followed a pickup towing a boat & trailer. I suspect it had a negative tongue weight, but it started oscillating. Not so it was uncomfortable, but downright eye popping. It just multiplied.
Eventually, the boat and trailer were swinging 90 degrees to the truck, and the pickup was being dragged side to side. They ended up in the ditch on the side of the road.
In motorcycles, we called it a tank slapper. Runaway oscillation.
Wow!

I've towed a lot of trailers and never used a WD Hitch, but they weren't that big.
I'd say hitch it up and look. If the back of the TV is sagging, you need an equalizer hitch.

BTW, If I was towing a single axle trailer, I'd worry more about a blowout than a WD hitch.
__________________

Mollysdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2017, 03:08 PM   #43
Rivet Master
 
Boxite's Avatar
 
2008 22' Sport
Spicewood (W of Austin) , Texas
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Yeah, but if you load your trailer to its max weight and then set 1,000 lbs on the truck's receiver you have gained 1,000 pounds of load capacity in the trailer. Then if you engage the weight distribution hitch you will put 200 lbs back to the trailer, but you're still 800 lbs ahead of maximum weight on the trailer's axles. We've had a 25' Airstream and a 20' Airstream and never found enough storage space in either on of them to overload their axle(s), because a large part of the load is carried by the tow vehicle on it's axles.
A trailer loaded to it's max (with the wt supported by the axle and tongue-jack) ...does NOT lose wt when the tongue jack is retracted and the tongue is resting on the hitch.

Further, ..when a WD hitch is then used... it takes a portion of that tongue wt (and, when excessive WD hitch-bars are used, perhaps even some of the TV payload) and adds that back onto the trailer axle.

Now consider THIS.... If you drive across a ditch or swale, ... for the time that the front axle is across the ditch...and the trailer axle has yet to arrive at the ditch... and the TV rear axle is OVER the ditch.... the TV Front axle and the Trailer Axle are supporting much more than ordinary.
So,... just how much do you wish to abuse that trailer axle?

( In an extraordinary example (for illustration purposes) ... an extremely over-adjusted WD hitch with overly-strong bars, the TV rear axle can be suspended in mid air.)
__________________
2012 Ram 1500 Crew Cab 4.7L 4X4
Rambox
WBCCI 14676 TX ALAMO UNIT
Boxite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2017, 08:02 PM   #44
2 Rivet Member
 
Frederica , Delaware
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
I understand that.
But then you're expected to back the TV into the receiver and presto!
The videos cheat and have the vehicles pre staged.
I'd guess without help, backing so you align the receiver and coupler is almost impossible on the first try.
In one video they had a brilliant idea (I thought). One person used a camera phone and "face timed" the image to the driver. Top/side.

A day watching folks back into their campsites or boat ramp is an education in driver skill.

And $2500? I believe in an equalizer hitch, but you don't need the space shuttle to fly cross country.

How many moving parts are in that thing?
Hitching is quite easy most of the time. I hitch up most of the time by myself, no cameras in the first attempt. I do have days that I struggle with it but even than I only need 2 or 3 attempts to get it right. Awkward angles, I put the wife behind the wheel and guide her in. The one time I thought would be a huge problem, TT was level but truck was sharply pointing downhill. It was the easiest thing to hitch I was shocked. Being challenged by my brother I hitched faster than him and his equalizer. He has been saving for ProPride for awhile now after driving my rig. Equalizer and Blue Ox Sway Pro just do not compare to Hensley or ProPride other than price point. I did not pay anywhere near the $2500 asking price otherwise I probably would not own one myself. I installed hitch by myself in about 2 1\2 hours it's not rocket science to install.

There isn't but one moving part, the hitch head, everything swivels slightly to move with the hitch head. The stringer is locked in by two "over center latches" they pivot but only during hitching and unhitching.

I have gotten off course of this thread with this. So back to the pissing match. For me, towing at just under 9000 lbs and 35 feet with tongue weight just under 1200 lbs (yes it been weighed). I want a WDH with great sway control so that I can just drive in comfort, relaxed; to my destination.
Overloaded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2017, 09:19 PM   #45
2 Rivet Member
 
2013 19' International
Colorado Springs , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 28
I tow my 2015, 19' AS with a RAM Promaster 1500 (aka Fiat Ducati Van). I use a Husky WD hitch with 400-600 lb. rated arms. It has worked fine for 36,000 miles.
I tried towing the AS without the arms and the front end of my TV was light and twitchy. It was worst when getting passed by a semi truck. I have not used the anti sway arm that it came with as it doesn't seem to need it.
I have learned to steer more like an Akido master where you apply force at the right time and move the wheel tiny amounts or not at all.
Good luck with your MB/AS combo.
AL4411 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2017, 01:16 PM   #46
4 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Vintage Kin Owner
Sonoma Co. , California
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxite View Post
A trailer loaded to it's max (with the wt supported by the axle and tongue-jack) ...does NOT lose wt when the tongue jack is retracted and the tongue is resting on the hitch.

Further, ..when a WD hitch is then used... it takes a portion of that tongue wt (and, when excessive WD hitch-bars are used, perhaps even some of the TV payload) and adds that back onto the trailer axle.

Now consider THIS.... If you drive across a ditch or swale, ... for the time that the front axle is across the ditch...and the trailer axle has yet to arrive at the ditch... and the TV rear axle is OVER the ditch.... the TV Front axle and the Trailer Axle are supporting much more than ordinary.
So,... just how much do you wish to abuse that trailer axle?

( In an extraordinary example (for illustration purposes) ... an extremely over-adjusted WD hitch with overly-strong bars, the TV rear axle can be suspended in mid air.)
I agree completely with your analysis, George. The WD hitch distributes part of the TV weight onto the trailer axle. This weight transfer and loading onto the trailer axle becomes even more pronounced when, as you correctly point out, the WD hitch equiped trailer and TV cross over a ditch or swale. A very large portion of the GCWR is then supported between the TV front axle and the trailer axle(s), the rear axle of the TV being unweighted by the WD bars. At this point you can easily exceed the trailer's GAWR, particularly on a single axle trailer.

When I read about owners breaking the axles on their trailers, I suspect...but can't prove...that they've weakened or broken the axle by the very set of circumstances just described, i.e.--that they've greatly exceeded the trailer axle's weight rating by an overly aggressive WD hitch.
USAtraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2017, 02:11 PM   #47
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxite View Post
A trailer loaded to it's max (with the wt supported by the axle and tongue-jack) ...does NOT lose wt when the tongue jack is retracted and the tongue is resting on the hitch.
If you want to know the weight of your loaded trailer you would place the trailer's axle(s) and tongue support on the CAT scale. After you have the weight measured you would set the tongue on the truck's receiver, which would the carry part of the trailer's weight.

Then with the truck's axles pulled forward off the trailer's segment of the CAT scale, you would know the weight the trailer's axles are carrying (of course including the axle/wheel/tire assembly).

You would also learn how much of the tongue weight the truck is now carrying. Then, if you have a weight distribution hitch and apply tension to the bars, you would know how much weight each truck and trailer axle are carrying.

So yes George I see what you are suggesting, but it depends on how you weigh the truck/trailer combination and what you are looking for.

I have little interest in tongue weight itself, I want to know how much weight our truck and trailer axles are carrying so they are not overloaded (GAWR) after weight distribution is tensioned and adjusted, and how much the entire rig weighs so it is within the design capacity of the truck (GCWR) to pull and stop it.

The idea that a weight distribution hitch can bend a trailer A-frame (the weakest link) from overly stiff w.d. bars on a sharp incline is valid, according to Andy Thomson and Inland Andy, members who have repaired these things for years. They will advise you the solution is not to go without weight distribution, but to carefully select flexible, tapered w.d. bars with enough capacity.

We have towed our 20' and 25' Airstreams without enough weight distribution, and it was not a pleasant experience in most interstate driving with semi traffic. I believe it became much less safe when adverse weather, road, and traffic conditions were added to the mix.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles

The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2017, 03:10 PM   #48
Rivet Master
 
Boxite's Avatar
 
2008 22' Sport
Spicewood (W of Austin) , Texas
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
...So yes George I see what you are suggesting, but it depends on how you weigh the truck/trailer combination and what you are looking for.....,....
The method used to weigh has no bearing on the effect of WD hitches to transfer wt to TV front and Trlr axles. Whether you weigh it one way or the other, the result while travelling down the road is the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
... Andy Thomson and Inland Andy,..They will advise you the solution is not to go without weight distribution,....
I wonder... Do THEY happen to sell such things as WD hitches...?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
...We have towed our 20' and 25' Airstreams without enough weight distribution, and it was not a pleasant experience in most interstate driving with semi traffic. I believe it became much less safe when adverse weather, road, and traffic conditions were added to the mix.
Have you ever towed ordinary utility trailers? Did you always use a WD hitch?
Or horse/cattle trailers?
Anyone who's ever lived in ranch country that takes livestock to market for a living using bumper-hitch trailers... has rarely seen a WD hitch on them.... if ever.

Does U-Haul make you use one?
Even on their larger trailers?
Boy, they must have some really good lawyers.

Has anyone seen some of the roll-over accidents when someone's towed RV rolls over and rolls the TV over also? Did you notice what kind of hitch they were using? The springbars torque the TV like an ordinary ball hitch will never.
An ordinary ball hitch will unlikely have the ability to twist-over the TV, I believe.
The point being that if you don't need WD, then there's several very good reasons not to use WD, ie axle loading, rough terrain, accident, etc.

I've beat this to death now, so I guess I should stop. My primary reason for such avid participation in this thread has been because of the widespread religion insisting upon WD hitches for all without first towing smaller trailers for a test drive.

Anything over 27'... I can more readily agree that they're likely req'd equipment...just as heavier TV's are as well.
Kind regards,
George
__________________
2012 Ram 1500 Crew Cab 4.7L 4X4
Rambox
WBCCI 14676 TX ALAMO UNIT
Boxite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2017, 03:21 PM   #49
Rivet Master
 
Mollysdad's Avatar
 
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa , Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overloaded View Post
There isn't but one moving part, the hitch head, everything swivels slightly to move with the hitch head. The stringer is locked in by two "over center latches" they pivot but only during hitching and unhitching.
Bearings are not "moving parts"?
Levers and arms swinging constantly?
Okay, I give up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxite View Post
Now consider THIS.... If you drive across a ditch or swale, ... for the time that the front axle is across the ditch...and the trailer axle has yet to arrive at the ditch... and the TV rear axle is OVER the ditch.... the TV Front axle and the Trailer Axle are supporting much more than ordinary.
So,... just how much do you wish to abuse that trailer axle?
If there was no safety margin, the axles would break every time you hit a bump, tar strip, pothole, railroad track, speed bump, dead skunk.....it goes on.
This forum is the epitome of "if it's worth thinking about, it's worth overthinking."
Although I love it.
__________________

Mollysdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hitch question for you experienced folks Escape_Plan Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 13 10-16-2016 07:06 AM
Question for PDX folks Drathaar General Repair Forum 5 03-15-2015 02:01 PM
Question for F-250/F-350 folks, Re: Brake Settings Drathaar Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 13 03-10-2015 10:23 AM
Tow, tow tow your Airstream Hhthorny Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 11 04-12-2008 12:06 AM
Input on best Airstream for two folks to live in Stan Krasinski Our Community 7 05-18-2003 08:27 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
×