Hitch Question for Folks Who Tow a 19' Airstream

[Mollysdad]

$2500 for a hitch?
Leaving it attached to the trailer, then how does one person reattach the TV?
Eh, I'm skeptical.

[dkottum]

Sounds expensive and is, but that's minus the $700 I paid for the dealer-installed hitch which wasn't that great.

The ProPride/Hensley hitch head, mounting yoke, weight distribution bars, and w.d. screw jacks remain in the trailer tongue. The stinger unlatches from the hitch head and pulls out with the truck.

[USAtraveler]

The amount of weight taken off the "steering axle" as you call it, Doug, is minor. Think about it. The tongue weight of the trailer is no more nor any different than carrying a few hundred pounds of cargo in the back of the pickup bed...something which any pickup is designed to do, and more. When you are carrying a load of cargo or towing a trailer, it's just common sense to be a little more cautious...stay to the right when possible,drive a little slower, allow a little more following distance, keep your situational awareness turned up a little more. I'm certainly not advocating anything dangerous or unsafe.

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by dkottum

The factory hitch weight of a FC 19 is 550 lbs. Loaded it may weigh 700 lbs which you are setting on the o.p.'s Mercedes hitch receiver. That will unload the steering axle significantly. Then you put another 100-200 lbs gear in the back of the Mercedes, maybe a passenger. That will unload the steering axle even more.....

So what? The tow vehicle is rated for that and more.
The tongue weight suggested by AS is average or design weight. Although each owner should load up his equipt and then weigh them...including tongue wt.... There should NEVER be allowed an overload condition.

Having said that, so what if the tongue wt is 700 lbs? As long as that is no more than 15% of Gross Trlr Wt ...that's fine ..and what's more... it has NOTHING to do with whether or not a WD hitch is required.

A WD hitch is required when TV rear axle capacity is neared, and that is dependent upon the rated load carrying capacity of the TV and if the tongue wt does not cause that excess a WD hitch MAY not be req'd at all.

The problem is you ...and I... and everyone else here isn't in a position where we can load his MB and AS up and tow it down the road like he's going to use it to test if it really needs a special hitch or not. Only HE can do that.
So any "requirement" that he have a WD hitch is pure speculation...and I doubt that's what he wants or why he's here asking questions.

There's simply no reason anyone should accept a "categorical/imperial" statement that he need a WD hitch on such a small trailer until he test drives it.
Your previous experience with a "utility trailer" that had sway issues has nothing to do with an AirStream which notoriously follows TV's better than utility trailers.

While I've strongly worded my responses, I do not do so irreverently. I only wish to counter the mass-mentality that everyone pulling travel trailers need WD hitches because the majority of people weighing-in on-line have them.

Respectfully,
George

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by USAtraveler

The amount of weight taken off the "steering axle" as you call it, Doug, is minor. Think about it. The tongue weight of the trailer is no more nor any different than carrying a few hundred pounds of cargo in the back of the pickup bed...something which any pickup is designed to do, and more. When you are carrying a load of cargo or towing a trailer, it's just common sense to be a little more cautious...stay to the right when possible,drive a little slower, allow a little more following distance, keep your situational awareness turned up a little more. I'm certainly not advocating anything dangerous or unsafe.

I have carried heavy weight in the back of our pickup, and towed our heavy utility trailer sitting on the hitch receiver. That demonstrates the point of using a weight distribution hitch perfectly.

Without the weight distribution, the truck is light in front, steering is vague, handling and braking are poor. Even in normal driving with no adverse traffic or weather conditions. With weight distribution (axles loaded evenly) the truck steering is positive and handling and braking are excellent. The trailer just follows.

Some larger pickups are designed for hauling heavy loads. Most half-ton trucks, SUV's and sedans are not. The rear suspension is too light, but it's capability and safety will be greatly improved when towing with a capable, properly set up weight distribution hitch so you can get some excessive weight off the rear axle, distribute it to the trailer axles and steering axle to keep it firmly planted for control in all weather, road and traffic conditions. A firmly planted steering axle will also help reduce the effects of trailer yaw movement and resist sway.

[Tim A.]

I have already posted that I like having a Hensley hitch for towing our 19', but some of the discussion of hitch weight ignores something I think is important.

Having weight on a trailer hitch on the very back of a vehicle is different than weight in the load area of that vehicle. The latter is most often on top of the rear axle or even in front of it. With weight on a trailer hitch at the back end of the vehicle, the rear axle (despite springs) is a fulcrum for a lever lifting the front wheels.

Tim

[NoResults]

You not only have the 2500 for the hitch but you need a coupe strong people to lift it and assembly. Probably add $200 to find someone to put it together properly..

There is a reason that Equal-i-zer is the no one selling hitch according to trailer life maagazine.

[StrmyWeather]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Weight distribution and sway control definitely improve towing comfort and safety. I've towed trailers without them as well, and have experienced uncontrollable sway with a heavily loaded utility trailer. No thanks to that experience. I still tow our boat and utility trailers without w.d. or sway control, but the design, weights, and distance and speed traveled are quite different from our Airstream.

Some people have towed travel trailers without w.d/sway control and some have driven years without using seatbelts and had no problems. Same deal.

Beetle,
As you've probably concluded by now, asking about towing on this forum brings a lot of different responses. You originally asked about whether you could tow w/o a wd hitch and sway control. You got opinions on what you should tow with if you do use them, and some answers about whether you need them or not. Of course, some are offered with sincerity and those offered by dkottum are offered with sincerity but are still basically what you might expect out of your black water discharge hose. Who knew one might expect that if you incorrectly load your utility trailer, it's going to sway. Great observation dkottum and we appreciate learning from your vast, stellar experience. But I especially appreciate knowing that wearing seat belts may keep us from experiencing the head trauma you've no doubt experienced many times. Shame. You may have actually been coherent at some time in your life.

Look at your specs. Ask questions and don't be swayed (pun intended) by the subjective. Make an informed decision. All the best Beetle.

[MrUKToad]

Originally Posted by StrmyWeather

Beetle,
As you've probably concluded by now, asking about towing on this forum brings a lot of different responses. You originally asked about whether you could tow w/o a wd hitch and sway control. You got opinions on what you should tow with if you do use them, and some answers about whether you need them or not. Of course, some are offered with sincerity and those offered by dkottum are offered with sincerity but are still basically what you might expect out of your black water discharge hose. Who knew one might expect that if you incorrectly load your utility trailer, it's going to sway. Great observation dkottum and we appreciate learning from your vast, stellar experience. But I especially appreciate knowing that wearing seat belts may keep us from experiencing the head trauma you've no doubt experienced many times. Shame. You may have actually been coherent at some time in your life.

Look at your specs. Ask questions and don't be swayed (pun intended) by the subjective. Make an informed decision. All the best Beetle.

Regardless of your tow vehicle, if you hang 700-1000 pounds on the hitch ball, which is situated some distance from the fulcrum that is the rear axle, then the front axle will have weight lifted from it. It's simple physics; that's what levers do.

Whether that weight subtracted from your front axle falls within the manufacturer's specification is neither here nor there, it will have a detrimental effect on the handling of the vehicle; maybe not a big effect but an effect all the same. (It's worth pointing out that issues with a lighter than usual front axle will be exacerbated by weather, road conditions and things happening behind the vehicle, like a trailer sway event). Also, loading weight over or close to the rear axle, like cargo in the bed of a truck, doesn't create the same lever effect that hanging a weight from a hitch ball will.

Apply weight distribution and you can add back some or all of the weight lost on the front axle and give yourself a far wider margin for error. The vehicle will handle better and will deal with other issues more effectively. Whether you need to use weight distribution is a moot point, but there are very few cases when the use of weight distribution doesn't help. Think of it as an aid to driving, like power assisted brakes and steering.

Of course, you can choose not to use weight distribution; you just give your tow vehicle a better, more stable performance if you do.

[Boxite]

I'm offended that Strmyweather is so snotty toward dkottum. There's no cause for that.

It can be argued that weight applied on the rear bumper works as a fulcrum... or it can be described as load-capacity already considered by the TV designer...
(On a PU truck with a 1400 lb payload capacity, is 600 lbs at the rear bumper worse than 400 lbs over the rear axle? I doubt the truck knows the difference.)

Think about it this way: A WD hitch spreads the weight over all axles...the front, rear, and trailer axles. If you load your trailer per the specs Airstream designed... most of us have the trailer at max Gross Vehicle wt.

Now lets suppose you load that pickup truck with a 1400 payload with 400 lbs of load...plus another 1000 lb tongue weight. You put a WD hitch into the equation and you've maxed out your tow vehicle ... and you OVERLOADED your trailer axles ...due to the distributed addt'l wt that WD hitch spread to them.

REMOVE the WD hitch, and the TV is at it's design weight and so is the trailer.

If the owner finds that the rig handles well... then why would he want to use a WD hitch he doesn't need just because so many others have been sold that bill of goods?

While on this subject, I've noticed some folks wildly estimate their tongue wts. It's better to actually measure it. My 22' Sport specs claim it has a tongue wt (at GVW) of 390 lbs. However, I've replaced the OEM 20# LPG tanks with dual 30# tanks, adding 20 lbs to the factory spec. My wife has loaded all sorts of items in the forward areas of the trailer, and the result is a tongue wt of 431 lbs on my ordinary ball-hitch. GVW of my trailer is 4000 lbs
I routinely travel with another 400 lbs in the pickup bed (Ram 1500, with 1543 payload rating and 7100 tow rating.) It pulls beautifully and the truck and trailer are both level with positive steering, good braking, and no handling problems. Why would I want to overload the trailer axle and add wt to my truck by using a WD hitch?
I don't think jumping onto a WD-hitch bandwagon (like every salesman and most fellow 'streamers have tried to get me to do) is the thing to do at all.
I did allow another 'streamer (he pulls a Bambi also with a BlueOX hitch) to drive my rig to compare it to his own, and he took it up to 85 mph and did a panic-stop, with the result he suggested I add a friction anti-sway. Since he had a freebie to give away... I installed it. I've taken 3 trips with it now and haven't yet noticed any significant difference in handling. (But I drive conservatively, usually around 65 mph.)

[Shiny16]

Boxite does bring up a good point that I have never seen mentioned. If you load your trailer to its max weight then add a WDH you will overload the axle.

[MrUKToad]

Originally Posted by Boxite

It can be argued that weight applied on the rear bumper works as a fulcrum...

It's not a case for argument, it's simple physics; hang a heavy weight a few feet behind your rear axle and the front axle will lighten.

You're right that the designer of the vehicle may have already thought of such a situation occurring, though, and the amount of weight lost from the front axle is within the acceptable range for that vehicle. However, restoring the weight lost using a weight distribution system will help the handling of that vehicle, regardless of the vehicle's specification.

It's true that the weight of the WD system will add to the load, but it will also be distributed, in part at least, across the other axles. You have to set the disadvantage of the additional weight against the advantage of better distributing it when making your choices.

I'm always surprised when people will actively argue against the merits of a system that helps with the overall towing performance of just about any tow vehicle. Certainly big trucks towing small Airstreams will have less of a need of weight distribution, but there's rarely a case when WD won't provide some benefit.

My personal towing solution relies on weight distribution; my rear axle is horribly overloaded without it and the front axle, on my FWD vehicle, is way too light. I use a fairly basic EAZ-LIFT system, which is at the lighter end of the scale, and that does the job for me. Using a heavy Hensley or ProPride PPP system would provide some key benefits for me but might, I fear, load the tongue weight just too much.

[Shiny16]

I don't think Boxite is arguing against the merits of weight distribution. (Correct me if I'm wrong Boxite) I believe he is just trying to make the case that there are acceptable tolerances and to say weight distribution is an absolute necessity every time someone post a question about it is wrong.

I personally use a WDH. I also use just a ball and hitch for short trips and have never felt unsafe. With the WDH it just feels "more better". I certainly would not falt anyone with the same combination for forgoing the WDH.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by Boxite

. . . Now lets suppose you load that pickup truck with a 1400 payload with 400 lbs of load...plus another 1000 lb tongue weight. You put a WD hitch into the equation and you've maxed out your tow vehicle ... and you OVERLOADED your trailer axles ...due to the distributed addt'l wt that WD hitch spread to them.

REMOVE the WD hitch, and the TV is at it's design weight and so is the trailer . . .

George, that is almost exactly the description of our previous Ram 1500 Hemi. Here is the problem. With the weight you describe and NO weight distribution hitch, you will be within the design payload/GVRW spec of the truck, but the rear axle (GAWR) will be badly overloaded. Steering and braking kaput. Put on the weight distribution hitch and the excessive weight on the truck's rear axle can be distributed to the truck's front axle and the trailer's axles. With a weight distribution hitch, payload/GVWR is less meaningful than GAWR, you can break an axle but not a payload/GVWR.

That's the dilemma with a single axle trailer, loading the tow vehicle axles properly without overloading the trailer axles.

[Boxite]

That's not the way I figure it, Doug....
The rear axle rating (Ram data) is 3900. The truck data indicates the rear axle load empty is 2336, and the cat-scale indicates that loaded as described above, rear axle wt = 3730. Interestingly, the front axle load also increased from 3025 estimated to 3040 actual. (This did surprise me and indicates that I might benefit from a heavier duty truck if I start carrying more.)

Here's the data for my 2012 w/4.7L, Crew Cab, 4x4. (BTW, it actually indicates a different payload of 1439 than the 1543 I previously stated, so things are slightly different for most Rams than the cat scale operator stated when we used the data-tag info on my truck's doorpost.)
https://www.ramtrucks.com/shared/pdf..._Tow_Chart.pdf

(I continue to use the 1543 payload my vehicle data-tag states per the VIN.)

[Boxite]

Also of interest, Doug, your '16 Ram 1500 w/EcoDiesel has a higher GVWR (6950) with lower payload per Ram specs. And since the axles are rated the same 3900 lbs F/R... I wonder how anyone can use that higher GVWR, and how that 740 lb higher Base wt reconciles with it.
Since your 25' FC GVWR is 7300 w/est. tongue wt of 850 exceeds the loads I routinely camp with... I'm not certain we don't both travel in the edge of what's technically legal.

Here's the Ram specs for your '16 model:
http://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towi...ing_charts.pdf

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Shiny16

Boxite does bring up a good point that I have never seen mentioned. If you load your trailer to its max weight then add a WDH you will overload the axle.

I don't follow this.

Your trailer GVWR is made up of tongue weight and axle weight.

If you shift a portion of the tongue weight back to the trailer axles, it doesn't impact your trailer GVW at all.

If you load the trailer up to the maximum trailer axle rating, it seems you would be likely exceeding the trailer GVWR.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by Boxite

Also of interest, Doug, your '16 Ram 1500 w/EcoDiesel has a higher GVWR (6950) with lower payload per Ram specs. And since the axles are rated the same 3900 lbs F/R... I wonder how anyone can use that higher GVWR, and how that 740 lb higher Base wt reconciles with it.
Since your 25' FC GVWR is 7300 w/est. tongue wt of 850 exceeds the loads I routinely camp with... I'm not certain we don't both travel in the edge of what's technically legal.

Here's the Ram specs for your '16 model:
http://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towi...ing_charts.pdf

There is no legal significance to weight ratings for recreational towing anywhere we've traveled, never required to stop at a weight station and we certainly don't look suspiciously dangerous. Our truck does not sag in the rear and our Airstream is level. So I don't care about payload/GVWR rating, it is meaningless to us when towing with a capable weight distribution hitch properly set up and adjusted.

What I do care about is GAWR which tells us what our axles can carry, and GCWR which tells us what our truck is designed to pull, steer, and stop.

I have confidence our rig is safely configured. We use a sway elimination hitch with completely and easily adjustable weight distribution even though it's expensive so there is never any semi's or wind gusts pushing us around on the highway, our trailer always stays in line with our truck no matter the side winds or road conditions. We have put reliable tires on the Airstream. We have no rear truck sag to compromise braking or handling, and it brakes and handles very well in our travels through every state in the country many times, except a few in the Northeast.

We did't buy our Ram trucks to carry uneeded stuff all over the country, we bought them for a comfortable ride for us and our Airstream, great economy, and decent maneuverability with and without the Airstream.

That is really getting off topic and I apologize, but it is another attempt to stress the importance of towing with a good capable weight distribution system.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by Shiny16

Boxite does bring up a good point that I have never seen mentioned. If you load your trailer to its max weight then add a WDH you will overload the axle.

Yeah, but if you load your trailer to its max weight and then set 1,000 lbs on the truck's receiver you have gained 1,000 pounds of load capacity in the trailer. Then if you engage the weight distribution hitch you will put 200 lbs back to the trailer, but you're still 800 lbs ahead of maximum weight on the trailer's axles. We've had a 25' Airstream and a 20' Airstream and never found enough storage space in either on of them to overload their axle(s), because a large part of the load is carried by the tow vehicle on it's axles.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by dkottum

The ProPride/Hensley hitch head, mounting yoke, weight distribution bars, and w.d. screw jacks remain in the trailer tongue. The stinger unlatches from the hitch head and pulls out with the truck.

I understand that.
But then you're expected to back the TV into the receiver and presto!
The videos cheat and have the vehicles pre staged.
I'd guess without help, backing so you align the receiver and coupler is almost impossible on the first try.
In one video they had a brilliant idea (I thought). One person used a camera phone and "face timed" the image to the driver. Top/side.

A day watching folks back into their campsites or boat ramp is an education in driver skill.

And $2500? I believe in an equalizer hitch, but you don't need the space shuttle to fly cross country.

How many moving parts are in that thing?