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Old 09-04-2005, 08:15 PM   #463
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Old 09-04-2005, 08:41 PM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim & Susan
Let's try this again.....
...and with that map, point proven. My next item was going to ask someone to post a per county, because I know here in Illinois, it was mostly for Bush, except for a small handful of counties, Cook (where Chicago is) being one of them where there are more voters, but make no mistake, people here in the Chicago area, that voted Democrat (except for me) also voted Democrat for Gov.....they are all now severely regretting that decsion, particularly teachers.....my prediction, there will be no Democrat in the Govenor's seat in IL next term, especially if Jim Edgar runs again. By 2008 my additional predicition is that after our own Democrat fiasco, Illinois will be a red state in 2008 (heck it's even a catchy theme).

By the way...great posts all.
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Old 09-04-2005, 09:15 PM   #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
Bottom line, Bush is President, is on term #2 by majority vote and the college. We are in Iraq, Afghanistan, we have a 100% volunteer military....if you agree with it or not, that's what it all boils down to. I recall being fairly displeased with Clinton, but in the end, there was little one could do about it, but vote the Democrats out for a decade since 2000.....hopefully longer, depending on whose on the menu in 2008. Until then, sit down, complain if you must, and enjoy the ride but it isn't going to change these facts.
I agree, and you may have noticed, I have tried to stay out of this whole thing, because I know that its pointless.
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Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
I love the arugments where folks say, yea but he only won by, or yea but if you cut up the country this way, our candiate would have won, or there is a goverment big brother who's watching and pulling the strings and the Bush is a puppet. Then when he wins the second term, there is always some reason to belittle the win to make some people's political hurts feel better. It is what it is. Don't blame me, that more of us voted for Bush than Kerry, but you have to take a good long hard look at the Democratic Party and Kerry as a whole and clearly you can see why things turned out as they did and will continue to do so until the Democrats get smart, get some real ground to carve out and stand on.
you are doing the very same thing, and that is what I'm jumping on. the proposition that "kerry didn't win by much in MA", is belittling that victory. and its completely and utterly false.
The other implication amongst the team, here, is that there is this huge "mandate" as a result of a very, very narrow victory in the country as a whole. "...get some "real" ground to stand on". as if the dems lost by a landslide. it ain't so. "EVERYbody thinks bush is better". "NObody like kerry, even his homies.". bah, HUMBUG, I say!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
Best of luck to the Democrats in 2008, Republicans too, I can't see any possible candidates that I would consider voting for yet.
[non-partisan mode-on]Funny you should mention that. Take a look at our present govenor. You will be hearing from him. now, THIS is the kind of guy you want. What I see as the big problem in "all of this" crap that we're all going through with these rediculous arguments, is the fact that by putting in W, we've become so dangerously divided. its ugly. We need someone that appeals to both sides, at least a little. That has been our problem over the last 2 elections. Neither team's guy appealed to the other side, AT ALL. Reagan appealed to dems. Clinton appealed to some repubs. and we didn't have this horsesh*t to deal with. The Repub we have in the Gov's office now is the type that can appeal to the other side, as evidenced by the fact that he somehow managed to get elected here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
And Chuck you are again wrong with the percentages. Correct numbers can be seen here:
ok, the "49.999999999" was an exaggeration. the point is what I stated above. the election was extremely close. and if not for a number of votes in the hundred-thousands in OH (not "millions"), Kerry could have won last time like W won the first time.

the other numbers were from the Texas Secretary of State's office, and their counterparts in MA. "Kerry won by a landslide 62%, while W "only" won by 61%".
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Old 09-04-2005, 09:30 PM   #466
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Chuck,

You're well spoken, you have a nice rig and you have great taste in tow vehicles....but you're mislead, my friend..... Clinton had his own horses***. Lest we forget, he was the second President in the history of the U.S. to be impeached. Even Nixon had sense enough to resign before the s*** hit the fan. When it comes down to it, I've said it once, I'll say it again: THEY'RE ALL CRIMINALS!!!! why do you good people keep sucking me back into this quagmire of a thread?

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Old 09-05-2005, 08:34 AM   #467
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Well, trying to say my guy won by a landslide wasn't my intention, I was merely trying to point out that it wasn't as close as 2000 and no matter what the final numbers are, we have who we have (though I'm not upset about the turnout).

You make some good points that are well taken. Me, I'll be very interested in whats availible in 2008...I just hope JibJab has some good spoofs on the candidates again.....
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Old 09-05-2005, 03:18 PM   #468
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... Can't believe I'm readin & Seein it...

Pics of bodies floatin down flooded streets, mass destruction, homes, businesses gone...no power, no... well NO Nothing, except gun battles ending with 4 dead & 1 seriously injured...as if there aint enough hardship... people killin eachother.... instead of becomin united & pullin 2gether...people have became animals & savagely takin the law in2 their own hands, what happend 2 the days when one could go on vacation & leave Yr worldly posessions on Your kitchen table & Yr door open & it ALL still B there when U came home... 2days society, jus don't buy it at all, what's gone wrong, where IS the BIG - MAN when U NEED HIM...on Vacation with the Emu's, got his head in the sand, & thinkin ..." If I stay here long enough... "... Yea sure it go away, Hey WAKE UP BIG MAN, Yr Country NEEDS U, it needs U NOW, how can 1 Guy, 1 powerful Guy not kn whats happenin around Him, Has he got Selective deafness , wearin blinkers... Please somebody check He's still Breathin...& YES I sent $100 of MY Vacation money 2 the RED CROSS ( NO publicity prefered )... What will that buy, 20 rounds of ammo 4 more bloodshed ???... Chris.....
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Old 09-05-2005, 04:49 PM   #469
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Where, who, or why is Dick Cheney? You would think that he could help out in his official capacity as Vice President. Probably "consulting" with Haliburton to make some money off this disaster to supplement the war income.
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Old 09-05-2005, 05:16 PM   #470
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Dick Cheney was in far northern Canada inspecting the tar sands last week.
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Old 09-05-2005, 05:18 PM   #471
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I heard on the news a couple of days ago that Chaney's visit to Alberta to meet with Klein had been cancelled because of Katrina.
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Old 09-05-2005, 05:20 PM   #472
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Maybe that's right, he didn't make the trip. It was to be a private visit with Michael Walker of the Fraser Institute.
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Old 09-05-2005, 05:31 PM   #473
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Maybe that's right, he didn't make the trip. It was to be a private visit with Michael Walker of the Fraser Institute.
You are probably right,the report I heard was that Klein's office understood why Cheney wasn't coming.
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Old 09-05-2005, 08:30 PM   #474
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Is America Red, Blue or a shade of purple?

The red-blue maps are incredibly misleading. They tend to make one think that the entire voting population of a county or state voted one way. As we know, that's not the case at all... The vote was roughly 49% to 51% give or take most everywhere, with a few exceptions of course on each side.

In my opinion, the Republican party loyalists tend to think that since they "control" so much red, that they continue to have a mandate.

The map attached is from http://bigpicture.typepad.com/writin...bycounty_.html

and gives a much more realistic picture of the true political composition of our country by showing the voting population as shades of purple. I think this is a much better way of showing how the country actually voted, and why the schism exists between the ideals of the Republican party platform and the 49% of the citizens who feel disenfranchised by their platform. On the website there are two versions, one adjusted for a population control figure and one not. This is the unadjusted version.

Quoting from the website:
County-by-County vote, with Population

Robert J. Vanderbei, a Professor of Applied and Computational Mathematics at Princeton, put together these beauties:




Quote:
"Using County-by-County election return data from USA Today together with County boundary data from the US Census' Tiger database we produced the following graphic depicting the results. Of course, blue is for the democrats, red is for the republicans, and green is for all other. Each county's color is a mix of these three color components in proportion to the results for that county. Counties shown in black represent either missing election data or a mismatch between the US Census data and the USA Today data. For example, the New England states' election return data is given for each municipality and/or district rather than for each county. Hence, it couldn't be easily matched with the county boundaries."



And also following is a similar map done by state...

Quoting again from the website:
Quote:
<H3>Purple America
Quote:

How instructive are all those 'Red v. Blue' States Maps? Considering the very slim margins by which each candidate squeeked by in many, many states, not very. Says Jeff Culver, the creator of the map: "I think it definitely portrays our fellow states far differently than the extreme way we've been seeing to date."

</H3>



Roger


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Old 09-05-2005, 09:20 PM   #475
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Roger, just adding dirt to muddy the waters....bottom line we have a President. He won the election two ways, one via the college, second (and not a requirement to win) the popular vote. It makes no difference at all how much a state or county voted at this point one way or the other...but to entertain your suggestion, I'll address the Illinois part.... the ONLY reason Kerry got Illinois was because of the Chicagoland area. Most of the rest of the state voted Bush. Though not a good litmus test, I am sure there were other similar statistics for both sides of the asile making the "purple America" thing moot.

I'm still waiting to see the watts type riots you described would happen as a result of Bush being re-elected.
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Old 09-05-2005, 09:35 PM   #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
I'm still waiting to see the watts type riots you described would happen as a result of Bush being re-elected.
No one's disputing the election itself. The issue is the unmitigated arrogance of the Republican leadership in declaring a "people's mandate" for it's platform with a slim 2% margin in most places. The good President's popular support is slipping. His approval ratings had slipped to 40% and that was a couple of weeks ago... and that would indicated that even 12% of those who supported him in the election don't think he's doing the job they think he should be.

And, regarding the civil unrest, I think I told you to look toward the end of his seventh year in office... we're not there yet... and I sincerely hope I'm wrong... but the systematic dismantling of support systems for our less fortunate citizens is beginning to be a major societal stressor, especially in the rural areas... I haven't spent a great deal of time in the cities, but time will tell...

Rog
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