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Old 01-24-2005, 08:34 PM   #183
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What budget shortfalls? G W Bush is going to hit us up for another 80 bil. That's about $300 per every man, woman and child. Probably $500-$600 for every taxpayer. Things sure are better over there.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:56 PM   #184
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[QUOTE=flamingo-kid1]
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Originally Posted by leefields
QUOTE]

Might I inquire as to where your grandparents, or great-grandparents immigrated from? Or are they Native American Indians?
no, ....u might not....
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:05 PM   #185
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I bet there are a few guys wanted by the police in Lee's area. I wonder if he is all for carpet bombing his town.
having worked for the Florida Department of Corrections in the max security prison Polk City Correctional Institution.....

being qualified by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.....

having worked as a Polk County Sheriff's Deputy

and having spent last 7 years of my 11 years of active duty as the Asst. Command Duty officer for the US Naval Forces in Europe......

I can honestly say that no one I know (to the best of my knowledge) is currently being searched for by the local law enforcement officers in the area....
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:11 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by TBKP's Overlander
I bet there are a few guys wanted by the police in Lee's area. I wonder if he is all for carpet bombing his town.
and let me continue, ...with this for a second...

we have not had our mayor shot, kidnapped or killed. our local childrens school has not been bombed..i have not been shot at while trying to register to vote, my daughters (if i had any) have not been pulled from the house, kidnapped and or raped, i have not been fired from my job becuase i support GW (considering that my wife and i own the company)

i do know that 3 guys tried to rob our local check cashing place 2 weeks ago, the lady at the counter shot and killed one and was able to id the other 2. i sent her some flowers, to show support...

it's a bit different over here.....
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:12 PM   #187
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Thumbs up economy vs Earth?

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Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
You know, I gotta jump in here. The environment is important, but so is the economy.
This argument always amazes me. The economy goes up and down constantly, on it's own, and due to many factors, some within our control and some not. But there is only ONE Earth, and it IS warming up. How can you weigh one against the other???

Whether or not Man is solely responsible for the warming temperature doesn't really matter, what matters is that we do something about it. The longer we wait, the more drastic the steps will have to be, once we finally are forced to take action. Don't you think THAT will have an effect on the economy???

It seems pretty clear that some, if not all of this warming is due to our influence, primarily through the emissions of greenhouse gases, mainly CO2, although methane is also a biggie. There is a clear correlation between the mean temp and ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution (up from 280ppm then to 375ppm now - a 35% increase). So what if the reasons aren't fully understood yet, why aren't we doing something to begin curtail them? If not Kyoto, why not propose something else??? You have to ask yourself why there would be resistance when the trajectory, and consequences, are so grave?

The simple answer is that curtailing CO2 means beginning to limit the burning of fossil fuels and the fossil fuel (ie. oil and coal) industry are in bed with the Bush Administration. In fact in some cases they ARE the Bush Administration, since so many cabinet members came from that industry, not to mention all the payoffs to Congress to keep the "energy bill" focused on fossil fuels. Seems pretty sad that a looming crisis like this doesn't even get a discussion due to all the special interests and payoffs from business.

And my last point on this is it does not have to be a zero sum game, or a negative impact to the economy. That is the big fallacy. A strong leadership move by Bush, based on reducing our imports of foreign oil for patriotic reasons, and looking ahead to prevent a climate disaster, could create and energize whole new industries based on finding and implementing alternatives to fossil fuels. Lot's of R&D and competition, like they did for the privatization of space flight recently. Modernizing transportation industries, and on and on. An initiative like that could create far more jobs than are lost, if we take a leadership role. And the cost? Nothing compared to the BILLIONS we are spending in Iraq. Apparently they have just asked for ANOTHER $80 Billion.

Sadly, I do not think it will happen with this administration. Instead, I think it will be business as usual for four more years.
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:24 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob30044
Most major companies have operations overseas. People in other countries eat and use products too. My Heinz Ketchup is still made in Pittsburgh, PA.
The service jobs are being sent to India.

It doesn't matter because these people work for less money. That is where George W. Bush's interest is.
Yes but most CEOs spouses are not running for president...and if you actually take a look at the Heniz site, you'll find that from what I can see, 50% of gear is made out of this country, but you are right, the Ketchup is made here....and it does matter if John is saying George needs to clean his house when his wife's company has exported 50% of it's jobs outside the country. Replublican 101. Talk about getting it both ways. It's one of the reasons John lost...
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:31 PM   #189
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This argument always amazes me..
It should, mainly to the fact that the treaty that was talked about was biased. As was pointed out, where was China's part? China's economy dwarfs ours. When you go to Wal-Mart or your favorite place to shop, how many labels do you buy that say "Made in China"? I look all the time and that number grows monthly.

The fact that you think George is in bed with the oil companies is totally irrelevant. It's that agrument that amazes me.

The bottom line is that in a capitalistic state, those that can build a better mousetrap will gain the market. As I've said before, and will ask you, how do you commute? How do you heat your home, how do you tow your Airstream? I will venture a guess that you use as much fossil fuels like the rest of is. Until we ourselves take responsibility for our own actions rather than point fingers, we are all (me included) just a bunch of hypocrites.
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:37 PM   #190
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Don't you think that if the government wanted to do something about it they could?
Have you ever looked at a budget line for any of the southern border states. Have you ever seen the money the federal gov passes onto the states for border patrol?

The point is that they pour money like an open floodgate to fix the problem. Some states have shifted money from peter to pay paul. Not to mention how much money these states spend on feeding, housing, transporting, jailing these folks that shouldn't be here. These folks pay little to no taxes, they pay zero into the kitty because companies knowingly hire these folks, then folks wonder why more money is going out than in.

Fact is around here, even to get a job at a fast food, you have to prove you are a resident, if not, there are big fines. I was under the impression this was a federal requirement, but I could be wrong...but I suspect by the undertones, that this too IS George's fault?
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Old 01-24-2005, 09:38 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leefields
and let me continue, ...with this for a second...

we have not had our mayor shot, kidnapped or killed. our local childrens school has not been bombed..i have not been shot at while trying to register to vote, my daughters (if i had any) have not been pulled from the house, kidnapped and or raped, i have not been fired from my job becuase i support GW (considering that my wife and i own the company)

i do know that 3 guys tried to rob our local check cashing place 2 weeks ago, the lady at the counter shot and killed one and was able to id the other 2. i sent her some flowers, to show support...

it's a bit different over here.....

Well I'm sure there are some guys out in your part that have some assault riffles and the government "ain't never gonna take 'em". You probably have a few who insist that this govenment is illegal and has no authority to tax them. Furthermore I know there has to be some mobile home/meth labs in you neck of the woods. However, that's not what I'm talking about. Let's say those other two robbery suspects haven't been caught yet. Should they just start carpet bombing the town until they found the guys.

BTW, all areas have there problems. Mine too.
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Old 01-24-2005, 10:11 PM   #192
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This is a great thread! It has all the workings of a movie! Good/Evil, city/country, North/South, people from other parts of the world, Oil, good guys/bad guys, planet going to h*ll, leaders, poor people, rich people. The funny/sad thing is this is "real life". Real life is always better than the movies. Keep it coming. It's nice to read something other than rotten floors, broken windows, etc... Keep it coming! But you city fellers on the left side are still wrong no matter how many times you say it. What was that country song "A country boy can survive" "We say please, we mamm, if ain't into that we don't give a d*mm"

Love it, Love it!

Paul
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Old 01-24-2005, 10:17 PM   #193
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There is another thread observing the fact that this forum is three years old next month. Coincidently, I purchased my coach about the same time, and shortly thereafter joined these forums.

I remember thinking at the time that, with all the dozens of great sites on the internet devoted to things Airstream, wouldn't it be great if this forum could distinguish itself by long, uninformed, poorly argued political postings? Just think of the oportunity to bring people together from all over the world with a common interest, and get them to divide themselves into hostile camps. I mean, there are so few forums where one can go to engage in this sort of thing, aren't there? Can't be more than a thousand or so anyway.

I know it is possible to subscibe to a thread, and I know it is possible (or used to be possible, haven't checked lately) to hide to posts generated by individual posters. Is there a way to do this with an entire thread so that I don't have to see this on the "Recent postings" or "Last 24 hours"? I ask in all sincerity.

Mark
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Old 01-24-2005, 10:27 PM   #194
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Quote:
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It should, mainly to the fact that the treaty that was talked about was biased. As was pointed out, where was China's part? China's economy dwarfs ours.
Uh, China's economy doesn't dwarf ours yet. Not even close.

2003 GDP (in US $)
US - 10.8 Trillion
China - 1.4 Trillion

But I will agree with you that the Kyoto was imperfect and gave some developing countries more leeway. However, enough countries seem to think it is worth doing something to have signed and ratified it without us. But my point was simply - OK, Kyoto bad, what next? Why isn't our government doing anything else in lieu of Kyoto? They aren't doing anything. Yes, we should all lead by example, and yes I do make personal sacrifices in this respect, as maybe you have. But far more people watch the Administration for guidance than me (duh!) So, a few words from up top acknowledging that there might be a problem, or that perhaps we should begin to think about conservation steps, would certainly be more expedient as a way to initiate national awareness, don't you think ? It is rather embarrasing to think that there is SO LITTLE leadership from the administration that the state governors are forming their own regional partnerships to begin to address the problem. Both West Coast and RGGI in eight of the Northeast states.
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Old 01-24-2005, 10:28 PM   #195
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Yup...it's called not participating. No one's putting a gun to anyone's head here to participate. If the content bothers folks and they'd rather talk about the girl scout bake a thons, so be it, but being this is the off topic section, and knowing it's a political thread which one would know that there are folks of different sides of the isle, one can clearly make the choice to participate or not, but please don't knock it just cause you might not agree.

I doubt seriously that either side is totally wrong and totally outright refuse to blame the adminstration for all our problems. I myself take responsibility for my own actions. The average American is not only overweight, but they have approx $5k on credit cards, but I'm sure there is a government plot that links the Republicans to that too.
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Old 01-24-2005, 10:35 PM   #196
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The feds have done several things, tax credits for hybrid cars, solar, etc. I might not be much but it's a start. What would you suggest they do? Moreover, the feds shouldn't have to take the lead. The local states SHOULD be more responsible and not always look to daddy for mandates.
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