Exploring verbal warfare

[SteveSueMac]

I thought it would be interesting and hopefully valuable to explore something together.

Why is there sometimes a tendency to engage in what feels like verbal warfare when defending a purchase decision be it any particular hitch, tow vehicle, generator, travel club, etc? If it's not ok for you to love yours and me to love mine - WHY is that not ok? There may well be valid, rational reasons for such behavior and if so, what are they? If we don't see things eye to eye, what is the reasonable line of "convincibility" and what constitutes a crossing of that line?

Overall, there is a tremendous amount of valuable information in the forum and I'm comfortable applying whatever filters that work for me to make sense out of what I think might be more heat than light, but I'm simultaneously entertained by some of the over-the-top rhetoric, and a bit ashamed that I cant help rubber-necking as though i just witnessed a really bad accident.

Please note before replying, this topic is absolutely intended to be product free - PLEASE do not posit arguments for or against any particular product. Rather, the intent here is to examine, explain, appreciate and perhaps challenge the reasons why we humans sometimes engage in this manner.

So what do you think?

[cameront120]

Live and let live seems a tad challenging for some. There are people who don't like to be wrong. No matter the topic or action. And it really rubs their rhubarb the wrong way when they encounter people who don't think the same way they do. These are usually the same folks who scream the loudest when they perceive their freedoms are being compromised, but are also the ones who are quick to try to impose their line of thinking on others. It's an odd thing.

[eubank]

Part of it is probably the online disinhibition effect:

Online disinhibition effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Lynn

[Snedwid]

I always figg'er that folks can disagree wid me and hold to any opinion they wish; ain't no skin off'ah me if they want to be wrong.

[MrUKToad]

I'm sometimes on the wrong end of people's firmly held beliefs and they're not always shy in letting me know about it - it could be that Internet lack of inhibition but I think it's more to do with healthy enthusiasm. I do get a little frustrated on occasion when these strongly held views obscure what I perceive to be interesting alternative views, but actually I quite enjoy a bit of banter and I'm happy that we can express our views fairly freely, even if they don't accord with our own.

There are some cultural issues that I've had to come to terms with on the Forum, but I'm learning to adapt, even if I don't say "awesome" and "y'all"

I'll also admit to a bit of rubbernecking on some of the debates, as it can get really fascinating sometimes. Keep it up Airstreamers, but please be nice!

[purdiferis]

SSM,

Great subject/thoughts.

I have found it in the few user groups that I have participated the need to be right by some of the contributors (not me I hope!)to be simply fantastic and a interesting
spectator sport.

I sure love the nuggets on info I learn here on airforums

Purdiferis

[Nuvite-F]

I started a thread on this general topic several years ago, which drew some thoughtful replies.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...ums-57654.html

Actually, I think there is less verbal warfare on Airforums today than there was then.

On the other hand, I also have the impression there's less activity.
.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F

I started a thread on this general topic several years ago, which drew some thoughtful replies.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...ums-57654.html

Actually, I think there is less verbal warfare on Airforums today than there was then.

On the other hand, I also have the impression there's less activity.
.

Sooner or later the "mods" get involved with those that like to cause issues that are not welcome on this Forums.

Sharing knowledge is what this Forums is all about.

It's up to others to accept or reject anything someone else may post, as it applies to them.

Knowledge is normally based on facts, and many times, facts that have been around for a long time.

Opinions, are just that, and are seldom backed by long haul experience, but moreso sometimes by ones desire to argue and/or degrade another persons positives.

Freedom of speech is fantasic, but arguementivity normally only creates hard feelings towards others.

Simply being nice, and/or constructive, unfortunately, is not in everyone's makeup.

Positive things, are always far more rewarding.

Andy

[Protagonist]

I think it comes down to the difference between, "I think…" and "I know…" Opinion is not fact, but we often mistake it as such. Especially if that opinion was formed through hard-earned personal experience.

When we mistake our opinions for fact, it's also easy to mistake dissenting opinions as criticism. It's hard sometimes to remember that, "I disagree" doesn't always mean, "You're wrong." There can be more than one right answer to most problems that crop up on the forums and it is possible for dissenting opinions to all be right.

I'm as guilty as anyone on the forums of mistaking opinion for fact, and dissenting opinions as criticism. And usually I have to be reminded that I'm doing it. So to all on the Air Forums, if you catch me at it, feel free to remind me. But please, be gentle about it. I'm not doing it on purpose.

[Lily&Me]

I think the verbal warfare here has to do with a number of things, all of which are present in the offline world, as well.

There are many very, very intelligent and hyper-knowledgeable people who post here. They have strong opinions backed by what they consider to be inarguable facts and specifics. My eyes start to cross reading some of the opinions and dissenting arguments about hitches, tow vehicles, gadgets, etc.

There are also some very large and sensitive egos here, some of which are easily threatened, increasing the intensity and frequency of arguments.

And, as with the offline world, the walking wounded are present here, just typing and posting rather than having in-person interactions. Groups bring an entire range of backgrounds and personal experiences....the good, the bad and the ugly....into their interactions with others.

Experiences shape and affect personalities, reactions, perceptions, etc. It's who and what we all are, and generally we don't know what has shaped another person, just what we see presented in front of us. That's a great deal of what we see here, IMO.

And, it's okay. Take what you need, and leave the rest.

Maggie.

[lewster]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions........just not their own facts! I forget what politician coined that phrase, but it sums up your point very well.

I have often found that some folks will challenge anything that is not within their view of how something should work or the products that they use.....simply based on their usage of said product. When trying to inject research, knowledge, professional training/experience and education into the mix, one is sometimes chastised or berated for it. I admire most DIY folks for tackling the complex projects that they do, but quite often the experience of one installation will not trump the experience gained from many installations done professionally.

I have experienced this several times on these Forums, with the end result being my decreased participation or outright self-imposed posting boycott for a time. That is probably the reason that the 'ignore' lists exist here. There are several entries on my 'ignore' list (they will stay private) for folks that often post in an argumentative or non-friendly way with 'opinions' that they formed while sleeping at their local Holiday Inn last night. I use Private Messaging quite often for my correspondence with members as a courtesy to that member, especially if my reply is diametrically opposed to theirs. I believe that this should be a private matter and not something done on the open Forums.

The free exchange of information and experience here is valuable to all. I have learned many things from posts in areas where I am not as proficient as I would like to be. Life is about learning, and one is never too old or too knowledgeable to learn something new every day.

[louaxtjr]

Originally Posted by doug&maggie

Experiences shape and affect personalities, reactions, perceptions, etc. It's who and what we all are, and generally we don't know what has shaped another person, just what we see presented in front of us. That's a great deal of what we see here, IMO.

Well put. There is a tendency for folks to think they have found "the best" of whatever product or solution is being discussed. Often this is after much research and/or experience. Any disagreement can be seen as a personal affront IF our differences are not considered.

For me, the different backgrounds/experiences of others on this forum is what I find most valuable. It is the reason why there is so much to learn here.

[DanielB]

Originally Posted by lewster

Everyone is entitled to their opinions........just not their own facts! I forget what politician coined that phrase, but it sums up your point very well.

The first time that I heard that was Al Franken berating John Thune on the Senate floor Senator Al Franken VS. Senator John Thune 12-14-09 - YouTube

Outside of forums and what-not, I notice.. a lot of people like to talk about what they "know". Apparenty, knowing things is a big deal. It seems like it is a big part of self-esteem.. what one "knows." I find it tedious.

It was Socrates who was bewildered when the Oracle at Delphi proclaimed that he was the wisest person. He was confused because he didn't think that he knew anything. He concluded that that must be the standard of wisdom. Realizing how little one really knows.

So maybe the people who cling to what they "know" are the not so bright ones.

[robert claus]

There are accepted norms, and there are those willing to experiment outside of the accepted norms. Those experiments sometimes succeed, forming a base of experience that can lead to a new perception of the norm. I like when people try new things, be they a different TV, hitch, tires, caulk or camping experience, because, if they succeed, they may be opening a window into the future. Some folks have trouble when there is no firm boundary that shouldn't be crossed, don't know how to deal with it, and react negatively because their secure base of knowledge isn't sacrosanct.

[Tony S]

Perhaps turn to John Stuart Mill for insight.

"In all intellectual debates, both sides tend to be correct in what they affirm, and wrong in what they deny"

"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that"

“The real advantage which truth has, consists in this, that when an opinion is true, it may be extinguished once, twice or many times, but in the course of ages there will generally found person to rediscover it, until some of its reappearances falls on a time when from favourable circumstances it escapes persecution until it has made such head as to withstand all subsequent attempts to suppress it.”

FWIW

Tony S

[aftermath]

I love the different opinions posted here. That is how I learn and boy have I learned a lot since joining. I find, on the most part, that this forum remains relatively civil especially compared to the other one I used to read.

My issue here is when someone enters the discussion and does not simply disagree but steps over the line and makes claims that you are being irresponsible if you do not do as he/she suggests. They refer to the safety of your family and the threat to everyone on the road if you continue to use your chosen TV or hitch or whatever. I know that the proper thing to do in these situations is to move on and not react. It is difficult for me to do so. I do not want to give these folks an avenue to make such statements. I feel that they need to be held accountable somehow. Isn't this a solution to the disinhibition effect? If we simply move on, are we not a part of the bigger problem? I suppose the solution is to speak up but do it in a respectful way.

Thanks to all who post options and varying opinions. You make the forum worth reading.

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by aftermath

My issue here is when someone enters the discussion and does not simply disagree but steps over the line and makes claims that you are being irresponsible if you do not do as he/she suggests. They refer to the safety of your family and the threat to everyone on the road if you continue to use your chosen TV or hitch or whatever. I know that the proper thing to do in these situations is to move on and not react. It is difficult for me to do so. I do not want to give these folks an avenue to make such statements. I feel that they need to be held accountable somehow. Isn't this a solution to the disinhibition effect? If we simply move on, are we not a part of the bigger problem? I suppose the solution is to speak up but do it in a respectful way.

IMO, it is important to speak up when you feel you must, but to pick your fights and not try to neutralize every extreme. That would be a fools errand, to quote my hubbie.

I feel most see extremists for what they are. It is also very difficult to get folks like this to back down or see what others see.


Maggie

[Skater]

Some topics bring out the passion. Ford vs. Chevy. Tastes great vs. less filling. Hitch brands. O'Brien's rank if you're a Star Trek fan. Religion. Linux, OS X, and Windows. The list goes on...

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Skater

Some topics bring out the passion. Ford vs. Chevy. Tastes great vs. less filling. Hitch brands. O'Brien's rank if you're a Star Trek fan. Religion. Linux, OS X, and Windows. The list goes on...

That's why politics and religion are the verboten topics on the Forums; in one case too many right answers, in the other no right answers. In fact, I don't even dare say which topic falls into which category, lest I stir up an argument!

[MrUKToad]

Originally Posted by aftermath

I love the different opinions posted here. That is how I learn and boy have I learned a lot since joining. I find, on the most part, that this forum remains relatively civil especially compared to the other one I used to read.

My issue here is when someone enters the discussion and does not simply disagree but steps over the line and makes claims that you are being irresponsible if you do not do as he/she suggests. They refer to the safety of your family and the threat to everyone on the road if you continue to use your chosen TV or hitch or whatever. I know that the proper thing to do in these situations is to move on and not react. It is difficult for me to do so. I do not want to give these folks an avenue to make such statements. I feel that they need to be held accountable somehow. Isn't this a solution to the disinhibition effect? If we simply move on, are we not a part of the bigger problem? I suppose the solution is to speak up but do it in a respectful way.

Thanks to all who post options and varying opinions. You make the forum worth reading.

Nicely put.

I tend to fall into the group that doesn't like to let some of these sweeping statements go without some contrary comment, especially the ones that involve prophecies of doom. I do try to keep it civil, though, and even inject a bit of humour; that doesn't always work, of course, because strongly held beliefs don't allow much room for jokes, but I'll keep on trying