Diesel or Gas decision after too many diesel issues

[Larryi]

I am looking for feedback from anyone that has had diesel vehicles and then decided to go gas and how do you like your decision? My current diesel truck (brand doesn't matter, they all have issues), has had multiple DEF issues and now is in the shop with a suspected failed CP4 fuel pump. I needed the diesel for our last camper which was a larger fifth wheel and I loved the diesel power and exhaust brake when towing. Now we have a 30ft International and technically could tow just fine with a gas engine. I'm in the market for a new truck and now can't help but think about maybe going back to a gas engine to possibly gain reliability. Do I really need the diesel? If others have switched from diesel to gas engines, do you regret that decision? I don't mind the expense of oil changes and DEF, its just the repairs cost too much when they break compared to gas engines.

Also related question for gas engine owners, some trucks have a "exhaust brake" though not exactly like a diesel engine. How well do they work? We do travel out west in the mountains and it is very reassuring to feel that exhaust brake kick in and help avoid smoking the brakes. Or are you strictly downshifting your transmission making it scream to slow you down?

Thanks for your feedback. It used to be an easy decision and go diesel but the cost of ownership and operation is rising.

PS, if you rave about your gas truck, please share brand and engine. Thanks

[WellSaid11]

Originally Posted by Larryi

Now we have a 30ft International and technically could tow just fine with a gas engine.

Uhhhhh......oh boy, here we go. What gas engine? The big V8s I assume?

Your other options (new) are the 7.2L V8 from Ford, the 6.6L Chevy or the 6.4L Hemi V8 from Ram, etc. Have not pulled with those, but I know people that have. Mixed reviews, but better than some V6 all day.

While others will have their take, I wouldn't mess with gas for 1 failed CP4 fuel pump (under warranty, or the Ram recall, etc.?) unless you have damage to the block, rail, etc. from the failure. Even then, I would get another diesel.

Skip the drama on a 30' AS and go/stay diesel. For me, the torque and exhaust brake alone are the money.

[richard5933]

I downsized from a Detroit Diesel 8V71 to a Chevy with a 454 V8. Does that count?

But in reality, comparing a Diesel engine and a gas engine are sort like comparing apples and carrots. They're both good, but have totally different strengths and weaknesses.

If it weren't for the DEF and the current Diesel prices, I'd opt for the Diesel. But there are also some great gas engines out there with plenty of of pulling power.

[tymcknobel]

This is an interesting and timely thread, especially as today we learned we had somehow picked up dirty diesel in a recent fill-up. The damage is still unknown. A dealer tech diagnosed and flushed the system, added a treatment but because we needed to move out of the campground and they really just kindly squeezed us in, the repair wasn't comprehensive. We still have 2 error codes related to emissions (better than the 6 before) but we're going to take the truck in when we reach our friends' driveway this week.

There may be damage to the fuel injection and replacement to the tune of $12K is sobering. While we've tried to be careful with fueling, kept on regular service, etc., it doesn't matter if a chance fill of contaminated diesel will destroy your system.

So now we're wondering about switching to gas, musing on downsizing -we tow the Classic 33- and I'm curious: has anyone else had experience with contaminated diesel? And, with respect to the OP, choose gas over diesel engines?

Thank you for your feedback.

[WellSaid11]

Originally Posted by tymcknobel

This is an interesting and timely thread, especially as today we learned we had somehow picked up dirty diesel in a recent fill-up. The damage is still unknown. A dealer tech diagnosed and flushed the system, added a treatment but because we needed to move out of the campground and they really just kindly squeezed us in, the repair wasn't comprehensive. We still have 2 error codes related to emissions (better than the 6 before) but we're going to take the truck in when we reach our friends' driveway this week.

There may be damage to the fuel injection and replacement to the tune of $12K is sobering. While we've tried to be careful with fueling, kept on regular service, etc., it doesn't matter if a chance fill of contaminated diesel will destroy your system.

So now we're wondering about switching to gas, musing on downsizing -we tow the Classic 33- and I'm curious: has anyone else had experience with contaminated diesel? And, with respect to the OP, choose gas over diesel engines?

Thank you for your feedback.

What make/model/year of truck, mileage and engine?

[John Ware]

Originally Posted by tymcknobel

This is an interesting and timely thread, especially as today we learned we had somehow picked up dirty diesel in a recent fill-up. The damage is still unknown. A dealer tech diagnosed and flushed the system, added a treatment but because we needed to move out of the campground and they really just kindly squeezed us in, the repair wasn't comprehensive. We still have 2 error codes related to emissions (better than the 6 before) but we're going to take the truck in when we reach our friends' driveway this week.

There may be damage to the fuel injection and replacement to the tune of $12K is sobering. While we've tried to be careful with fueling, kept on regular service, etc., it doesn't matter if a chance fill of contaminated diesel will destroy your system.

So now we're wondering about switching to gas, musing on downsizing -we tow the Classic 33- and I'm curious: has anyone else had experience with contaminated diesel? And, with respect to the OP, choose gas over diesel engines?

Thank you for your feedback.

A friend of mine filled his diesel truck with gas last year. He said it was the station's fault. His truck was in the shop for 2 months mostly waiting for parts and his insurance paid the bill. Personally, I would still stick with a diesel. While on the road try to buy diesel from a busy station and never fill up when they are filling their tanks as that stirs up the sediment and water in their tanks.

[tymcknobel]

Hi,

We have a 2020 GMC 2500HD AT4, only 34,600 miles, and it's the Duramax diesel. We love the capabilities of this truck, but this situation is difficult.

There were white particles and some strange colored liquid in the fuel. The tech had seen contaminated diesel before but not quite like this.

They recommended going to popular brand filling stations for diesel. We use the TSD fuel card for discounts but they warned it's good to be careful at truck stops as one might get a lower quality diesel fuel, aka Road diesel. While we check for ultra low sulfur or the acceptable biodiesel, perhaps what we got was lower quality.

I don't believe we had gasoline in the tank. Sorry your friend had that issue. I thought one can't easily put a gas nozzle in a diesel fill on the truck (or maybe that's visa versa).

Anyway, there is possibly insurance coverage for this, which could lessen the sting.

Thanks for your reply.

[WellSaid11]

Originally Posted by tymcknobel

Hi,

We have a 2020 GMC 2500HD AT4, only 34,600 miles, and it's the Duramax diesel. We love the capabilities of this truck, but this situation is difficult.

There were white particles and some strange colored liquid in the fuel. The tech had seen contaminated diesel before but not quite like this.

They recommended going to popular brand filling stations for diesel. We use the TSD fuel card for discounts but they warned it's good to be careful at truck stops as one might get a lower quality diesel fuel, aka Road diesel. While we check for ultra low sulfur or the acceptable biodiesel, perhaps what we got was lower quality.

I don't believe we had gasoline in the tank. Sorry your friend had that issue. I thought one can't easily put a gas nozzle in a diesel fill on the truck (or maybe that's visa versa).

Anyway, there is possibly insurance coverage for this, which could lessen the sting.

Thanks for your reply.

The CP4 pump is prone to failure and it was used in all 3 brands. TSBs, class actions and other stuff all over about this. Most of the Duramax failures seem to be in the engines from 6-10 years ago, but I would make sure.

Don’t let them put it on you when it could be their issue on the CP4. The particles you talk about could be metal shavings as a result of the HPFP failure.

Google it and be smarter than
they are when you are engaging with the dealer.

Good luck!

[Mullers]

I don't see the case for diesels anymore.

It used to be that you'd go diesel for cost reasons (mostly fuel economy/running costs), and because of all that low down torque.

Don't get me wrong, modern diesels are amazing engines, but I think evolutionary it's not the right path.

I say this having grown up with diesels in Europe and being fascinated as they approached, and in some cases surpassed equivalent sized gas engines in output while maintaining insane levels of fuel economy.

But these advances have come at a cost - it used to be that you could literally put heating oil into a diesel engine and it would just run. Now there's stories continually about issues with poor fuel causing massive rebuild issues including multiple in this thread.

On top of that now the diesel options are significantly more expensive to buy than the gas engines. And then they're heavier thus reducing payload, and fuel economy is now the same as the gas engines and finally fuel for diesel is more expensive and you need to add adblue/DEF too.

So Diesel is now both a more expensive option to buy and more expensive to run. P

Yet the gas options for trucks now provide plenty of torque… even for an F150 the eco boost provides 500lbft, and the 5.0 v8 410lbft. F250 gas engines provide 430lbft for the 6.2 and 470 for the 7.3 v8s.

So you won't be short on power. Potentially may just need to work the gas engine a bit more if it's naturally aspirated.

It's sort of a shame that with the forthcoming electrication we may not end up seeing turbo gas engines in the 3/4 ton/1 ton ranges. Ecoboost folk have been shouting this from the hills for years, but turbos on gas engines provides almost diesel levels of torque, and really provide best of both… Even our Audi Q8 which is a 3.0 v6 turbo has 369lbft from 1300rpm.

[SVTRIDE]

Just switched away from diesel to gasser in June this year. Diesel 6.7 F350's since 2011. For me the decision was predicated on several factors listed in order of priority. I came out of a 2018 F350 6.7 SRW SB.

Truck had multiple CEL DTCs with less than 50K miles on it. Glow plugs, DEF tank issues, and some catalyzer equalization issue. Yes, all fixed under warranty in a timely manner. During repair PCM was re-flashed for updates for the catalyzer issue. After truck returned, I still got errant CEL DTCs that would come and go at random. I pulled DTC codes (emission related) and emailed them to the dealership. They talked with Ford and said the latest flash was all that they could re-install or possible parts changes. So I just kept clearing codes and kept on trucking. I hate CEL issues and the prospect of continued CELS with no set outcome really irritated me. Hassle factor to keep going back and forth with dealership / Ford Engineering. Very discouraging. The gasser is KISS. The diesel's emission support systems, IMO, are overly complex and the crux of the CELS I was getting. The new PCM flash also implemented a high idle if I left the truck idling, DEF consumption increased noticeably, along with more frequent regens.

Christmas of 2021, I checked resale values on my truck and was astounded at what they were bringing. Ordered then a 2022 350 7.3 gasser after evaluating the collective cost of diesel ownership (fuel, oil, DEF, fuel filters, water separators) vs. what I really need to tow my 25' AS. I snow plow, so a Super Duty was a must. F150 not feasible for my needs.
My cost break even point would require me to drive the diesel ~125k miles vs. the gasser. I don't keep my trucks that long.

I wanted some features that the '22 truck offered that I did not have in the '18. Long bed, UTT package.

Conclusion: I just passed through ~2500 miles towing the AS with the gasser so far. Tow vehicle dynamics are fine, comparable to the diesel but is definitely busier with downshifts on grades and engine RPM surges. Note: the '22 is a 10 spd trans vs. the '18 had 6 spd. Definitely the diesel was more sedate and rarely dropped down out of 6th gear. Fuel mileage is ~25% less while towing vs. the diesel over the same tow routes. For now, I'm happy with my decision to switch. The 7.3 has very adequate power to tow the AS where I generally travel here in the Midwest. I speculate that with the 10 spd trans, the truck would be more than capable out west as well for my needs. I definitely enjoyed the diesel engine characteristics, gobs of torque but way more than I needed in reality. At this point in my life, KISS has become a theme I'm trying to maximize. YMMV. Cheers!

[2012FB]

I have had 7 3/4 ton diesels since 1999. Ford then GM. After a great deal of research and sole searching I went with the 1/2 ton GM 6.2 gas with 10 speed. I love it and would not go back. There are just so many advantages to gas now unless you are pulling 12,000 pounds full time for a living. Suffice it to say I had numerous issues with all the diesels. Duramax a bit better than PowerStroke. Ford bought two back. The 1999 through arbitration and the other a 2004 John Elway Ford’s service manager felt so bad for my issues he made arrangement’s for a replacement.

[tymcknobel]

Originally Posted by WellSaid11

The CP4 pump is prone to failure and it was used in all 3 brands. TSBs, class actions and other stuff all over about this. Most of the Duramax failures seem to be in the engines from 6-10 years ago, but I would make sure.

Don’t let them put it on you when it could be their issue on the CP4. The particles you talk about could be metal shavings as a result of the HPFP failure.

Google it and be smarter than
they are when you are engaging with the dealer.

Good luck!

Thank you for the heads up on pump failures in the diesels. We had read a little on it before we purchased and we believe we have a different pump.

The white specks were gelatinous, if one could describe it that way. The mechanic wondered if it was like a bacteria or algae, as it kind of broke apart when he touched it.

We'll drive today and see how far we can go.

Safe travels!

[majorairhead]

I never owned a diesel truck. I've driven several, towing a load of hay or two, box trucks, even a little Jetta TDI (dang near 50 mpg).

I just wanted to say that the '17 F250 6.2L gasser I bought has around 85k miles on it. Knockin' on wood here, but no issues to date.

I was faced with the decision of diesel vs. gas when I bought this truck. I feared diesel repair costs, in particular out of warranty, and I also wanted to maximize payload.

The truck I drive will downshift to maintain speed going down hills if you're in tow/haul mode, or if you have cruise control set. Yes indeed, it'll rev up the rpm's for sure, makes her scream a wee bit

I get around 9.5 mpg average towing the 30 foot International. I can squeeze 10.5 out of it if I behave with the throttle.

I like the 3,111 pounds of payload, we haul lots of stuff.

[JMynes]

I made the switch 5 years ago. No regrets.
The two diesels I had, ‘05 and ‘12 Duramax, had gobs of torque and towed like a locomotive. They were great when they were running. But when they were broke, so was I.
At one point I had the ‘05 D-Max, an ‘04 diesel Jetta, and a small diesel tractor. It seemed like I always had a wrench in my hand.
The ‘12 D-Max had a big conniption fit one day and threatened me with limp mode in 100 miles. Problem was, I was 120 miles from home. Luckily the limp mode was progressive, and I made it home limited to 35mph.
The dealership had it for two weeks, throwing parts at it and calling the GM wizards for more ideas. When I got it back I immediately traded for the ‘17 Super Duty gasser that I’m still driving.
I’ve yet to have any trouble with this truck, and it tows my rig through Appalachia just fine. I’m sure the Rockies are a bigger challenge, but I wouldn’t hesitate to go if the destination were on the other side.

[Slimpockets]

I had a 96’ F250 diesel. I had to pay $1000 to replace the low pressure fuel pump. It’s located under the turbo so hard to get to. I replaced that truck with a heavy duty payload package f150. The f150 has more hp/torque AND payload than the older F250 had. The emissions crap required for new Diesel engines killed it for me. No way I would want to face that over the years.

[WellSaid11]

I have had several diesels. Other than DEF @ $25 every month or so and fuel filter changes there really isn’t any extra cost aside from any fuel price variance.

If you are worried about that kind of cost you probably should not be trailering an AS - or any TT for that matter. If you are so worried about long term costs then also buy an extended warranty or have a decent indy mechanic.

The “extra cost” thing isn’t an issue.

[jeffmc306]

Larryi, you are asking the right questions. When I worked in manufacturing we used a decision analysis process for new equipment. It help guide us by defining the “musts” and “wants”. In your example, the tow vehicle “must” be able to tow a 30’ Airstream. Any of the Big Three’s HD gas engines can do that.

I “wanted” a RAM 2500 with a Cummins diesel but had several “musts” on my list. One must was cost not to exceed $65K. I could have the diesel but not the other musts (towing technology, safety group). After talking with the truck sales person he explained unless we were towing over 10-12K lbs, the 6.4 Hemi would do the job just fine. He was right.

We ended up with a 2019 RAM 2500 with the 6.4 Hemi gas engine and the 8 speed trans. The truck engine is purpose-built with oil sprayed pistons for cooling, an oil-to-water oil cooler and an active dual-runner-length intake manifold for low- and mid-range engine speeds without losing the high-end power. All that means it’s not a car engine dropped in an HD truck.

On our trip from the Midwest to Maine for the International Rally, we averaged 11.1 MPG for 3000 miles. I found the sweet spot is 67 MPH where the trans would drop into overdrive and the mileage would climb to high 11’s. All this on regular 87 octane pump gas which was on average a buck cheaper than diesel.

We’ve towed in the Rockies up and down the mountains using engine braking by downshifting. Trans and engine oil temps never moved out of normal operating range. Overall, I’m not disappointed in our decision not to go diesel.

Hope that helps!

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by WellSaid11

I have had several diesels. Other than DEF @ $25 every month or so and fuel filter changes there really isn’t any extra cost aside from any fuel price variance.

If you are worried about that kind of cost you probably should not be trailering an AS - or any TT for that matter. If you are so worried about long term costs then also buy an extended warranty or have a decent indy mechanic.

The “extra cost” thing isn’t an issue.

We get it…You’re the “cheering section” for diesel. Repetitious posts do not strengthen your position.

I have 3 Diesel vehicles and 3 Gas… and I tow the AS with GAS. It’s a simpler and less expensive solution and fuel quality and fuel-additive-questions are Never an issue. Plus I travel with a Gas generator and carry 5 gal gas-container in the back of the truck where it is well ventilated. On TWO occasions while travelling waay out West we got scarey-low on fuel between distant stations…and that extra 5 gals relieved our worries.

GAS is the easy and less expensive fuel and gas engines don’t challenge Gomer in Timbuktu with “what’s wrong with my diesel?” questions.

[WellSaid11]

Don’t be bitter, it’s ok that you don’t like diesels. I doubt “Gomer” cares how you feel anyway.

[jim dunmire]

I have a 2020 Ford F250 diesel Platinum and NO ISSUES other than oil changes. By the way, the diesel brake option is reason in itself to buy a diesel if you do any traveling in the mountains. Went to NC Blue Ridge last year and my diesel brake was utilized with great success almost all the time