Planning for solar/Lithium upgrade

[jondrew55]

Getting my new (to me) 2021 30' Globetrotter soon. Trying to decide if I want to do a solar upgrade on it eventually. It comes with the standard AS 2 solar panel/AGM battery/controller combo.

The fact is my current usage does not really justify a need for any solar. I park in covered storage with electricity available. We usually go to campsites with power. But as we start getting ready for retirement in a couple of years I can see us heading out for some boon docking.

So what would be an upgrade that would make sense? Maybe 2 Lithium 75 or 100 amp hours batteries? A better controller? Maybe don't do anything? I have a couple of ICE generators so it's not like I can't get by if we started boon docking with no changes.

[hawkspur]

If you don't need it, why not wait until you do? Lithium batteries have gotten substantially cheaper over time, and that trend is likely to continue

[vanderwielen]

is your refrigerator DC only or a DC/propane? Lithium is a wise move. However, there are ancillary upgrades necessary if you switch.

[field & stream]

Personally, I wouldn’t do anything until there is a need for extended time unplugged (shore power or generator). Technology is headed up, prices are headed down.

Budget is certainly an issue, but again personally I would invest in solar and lithium. But I have little to no tolerance for the hauling, handling, fueling, noise and smell of generators.

[jondrew55]

Originally Posted by vanderwielen

is your refrigerator DC only or a DC/propane? Lithium is a wise move. However, there are ancillary upgrades necessary if you switch.

DC only. But that gets power from my TV when towing and maybe also from the solar panels? Not sure about the solar part since I don't have the trailer yet. My old GT did not have solar

[Boondocker]

The big power issue boondocking is storage not generation. Lots of battery storage is the key and lithium is the way to go. They are expensive but over time that issue smooths out. They are also lighter, have greater usable capacity, and need far less attention. Figure out how long you might want to be unplugged and work out an energy budget for that. Base your battery bank on that. My 68 Tradewind is undergoing a complete rebuild and the interesting thing is that the power build with these considerations in mind was the bulk of the expense- solar itself added relatively little to the cost. So if you build a capable 12v system you can add solar for about the cost of a genset and get all the upsides to boot. BUT start with the battery bank and other components.

[pjshier]

As others have said - relax and see how it goes. The push-point may come before retirement if your AGMs fail before you are ready to change to Lithium and before you have thought through the accoutrements you will likely want in order to optimize the experience. On the other hand - AGMs are relatively cheap to replace if they fail too soon.

We made the switch after three years towing and dipping our toes into the boondocking pool. Before the switch, we bought a Renogy 200w solar suitcase that has a built-in controller that is LiFePo selectable. Then replaced the Airstream stock power center with a LiFePo capable charger unit. Then installed a battery cut-off switch. And after acquiring a couple of LiFePo 100 A/H batteries on a year end sale, acquired and installed a Victron DC/DC unit.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

An enormous lot depends on just what you decide to do in retirement. Right now, noting you are looking at doing would justify an upgrade. Will your use profile in a few years be all that different? Who knows .... The world has a tendency to change this and change that without giving a lot of prior notice

What would make sense down the road? As a total guess, with zero data to go on:

1) Drop in 400AH of lithium batteries. All would need to be same brand and preferably same model.

2) Put up as much solar as will fit on the roof. Is this 4 panels, 8 panels or something else? Four is likely the max, but who knows....

3) Upgrade the solar controller. I'd go with Victron, but there are other brands. I'd put in a SmartShunt at the same time.

4) Possibly replace the inverter and converter with a hybrid unit. Again, I'd go with a Victron Multi, but there are other options.

5) Get a propane powered generator in the 1 to 2 KW range for the "just in case" stuff.

It's a good bet that some of that simply does not apply at all to what you will be doing. Until you have some miles logged in, sit back and enjoy what you have.

Bob

[AlIslander]

If you think you'll want boondocking ability in a couple of years like you say then you should take into consideration the potential tax savings of having it installed now versus later with the Federal Residential Renewable Energy Tax Credit..

I'm not an accountant so all of the details would be have to be worked out by you, but a 26% tax credit is not insignificant.


https://programs.dsireusa.org/system...am/detail/1235

[jnm30327]

I just finished a lithium upgrade on a 2018 27FB Flying Cloud. I reported my experience here.

You are ahead of the game if you already have solar and AGM batteries. My motivation was too much worrying about battery state of charge and lack of microwave when off shore power. Adding lithium batteries means a new onboard charger/inverter and a DC-DC charger (if you want anything more than minimal charging from alternator.) In some cases, a direct alternator connection to lithium batteries can cause the alternator to overheat and fail.

I went with a full Victron system with Multiplus II (I had a 50 amp AC connection), MPPT charger, DC-DC charger, Cerbo GX, and Touch 50 display. The Cerbo allows connection to Victron website so I can follow the trailer remotely if WiFi connection is available.

Bottom line, is that converting to Lithium required more than dropping in some batteries. Costs are significant. If you think your need is only intermittent, I would not bother. If you intend to dry camp a lot or boondock and can afford it, I would move ahead.

[field & stream]

An afterthought to my earlier post which included comments critical of generators: I just remembered that you are in the southeast and if you want to run a/c then no practical amount of solar and batteries will do the trick. You will need a generator.

[jsmall01]

I removed the two fried front lead acid batteries from our used 2016 23 FB international that I purchased in november. Moved batteries under front bed...four Battle Born 100 amp hour. Also put in the victron multiplus 3k. Installed 400 watts of solar on top. Stayed with victron for the DC to DC charger and solar controller.

Pretty straightforward setup and lots of videos online about it if you want to do it yourself. Took about 2 weeks. But not a project for everyone for sure


And Our situation is different than original post describes.. We boondock about 90% of the time and both work out of the airstream when we're camping..if we have internet. Having 400 amps available and power flowing to all AC outlets regardless of shore or battery connection is a game changer.

Jim

[Photobum]

What Bob said. To a T.

[AZ camper]

Just installed two group 24, 75ah Battle Born batteries.

[jondrew55]

Originally Posted by Photobum

What Bob said. To a T.

I've got the propane generator

[s1000pre]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

An enormous lot depends on just what you decide to do in retirement. Right now, noting you are looking at doing would justify an upgrade. Will your use profile in a few years be all that different? Who knows .... The world has a tendency to change this and change that without giving a lot of prior notice

What would make sense down the road? As a total guess, with zero data to go on:

1) Drop in 400AH of lithium batteries. All would need to be same brand and preferably same model.

2) Put up as much solar as will fit on the roof. Is this 4 panels, 8 panels or something else? Four is likely the max, but who knows....

3) Upgrade the solar controller. I'd go with Victron, but there are other brands. I'd put in a SmartShunt at the same time.

4) Possibly replace the inverter and converter with a hybrid unit. Again, I'd go with a Victron Multi, but there are other options.

5) Get a propane powered generator in the 1 to 2 KW range for the "just in case" stuff.

It's a good bet that some of that simply does not apply at all to what you will be doing. Until you have some miles logged in, sit back and enjoy what you have.

Bob

I agree with everything above. I went with 300ah of lithium, and added an 1,800 watt inverter for the galley & microwave. I keep a propane generator with me for the what if’s, (4) 90watt on the roof and (2)100 watt portables. We have had many nights in the 30-40 degree range where the furnace will kill your oem batteries in one night, if you make it through the night. We can make it 3 or 4 days conservatively with a family of 4 and our 300ah of lithium. I could go weeks with my solar setup (with sun). Any clouds, trees, etc forget about solar. It’s only good when sunny.

[Bill M.]

Well I also am thinking about doing a lithium conversion. Right now I have flooded cell 70 amp hour batteries and I use a 24 volt CPAP that seems to draw a good bit of power. I am not convinced that lithium batteries are going to come down much in the short term future and at my age that is what I look at. I know I will get to use them longer if I buy now rather than wait. Lithium seems to make more sense than buying new AGMs. I carry and use a generator and I think the charging profile of lithium will be "worth it" in allowing flexibility of the generator times and runs. Worth it in the sense of making me feel better, not in saving money.

[dmartinez]

My wife and I purchased our 25 FB new in 2014 while we where still working now that we are retired on fix income we decided it was time to add solar so we can dry camp if necessary.

I was wondering if the factory would allow you to make modifications to your factory solar system? I would see what gauge of wire the are using on the solar array.(Up grade wiring) Also check wiring from combiner box to your charge controller. (Up grade wiring) If you should decide to go solar. Also would see what equipment they are using I would highly recommend going with Victron Energy if you can upgrade?

[Yardbird54E]

We went with the factory solar and dealer lithium upgrade with two 100ah Battleborn's and compatible converter on our 2022 Flying Cloud 25FBT. I added two 90w Zamp obsidian panels to the roof for a total of 360w. We also have an additional 100w Zamp portable panel. Got the lithiums for the faster charging and depth of discharge advantage over lead acids or AGMs. We also carry a 3400w Champion dual fuel generator that will run our AC or charge batteries when cloudy or in shade. We have found in our limited experience that our favorite campgrounds are forest service cg's with no hookups so it's nice to have the boon docking capability and the solar/lithium lets us run the generator less.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by dmartinez

.......

I was wondering if the factory would allow you to make modifications to your factory solar system? ....

Hi

Simple answer is no. They aren't in the custom business. Yes, there is a more complicated answer, but it works out to the same thing.

Bob