More tire dilemma!

[Mrjkq]

I'm losing total confidence in all Goodyear tire products. First it was my new Airstream with the GYM's, now it's my 2015 RAM truck with GY Wrangler rubber. Just turned 20K on the odometer & these tires are close to the end game, I may get 5k more if I push it. What's with this company ?

[dkottum]

Our 2012 Airstream and 2012 Ram 1500 both came with Good Year, both now have Michelins. Changed out the Airstream GYM's early for suspect reliability. The 20" Wranglers lasted 40K and looked pretty good but gradually got seriously out of round, very noisy on account of it.

I don't tow and very seldom drive solo over 65 MPH, things don't break and last longer I believe, and use less gas. Not only because I'm cheap, at this point in life I'm no longer ever in a hurry.

[Mrjkq]

Doug, the GYM issue is one I've read about, commented about and decided to switch out before May when our next trip begins. My RAM is a surprise tire situation. Just PO about it, another American company manufacturing overseas & supplying junk under that great name.

[markdoane]

It sounds like the fault lies with Dodge as much as Goodyear. Thye might have put cheap tires on that truck to hit your price point.

That, or the dealer may have done a take-off. Switched your OEM tires with something cheaper. Did the window sticker agree with the actual tires you got?

[handn]

All tire manufacturers appear to be guilty of making cheapie low mileage tires to meet a price point when pressured by manufacturers.
I had a set of BF Goodrich tires which only lasted 25k miles when mounted on a new Nissan.
A friend had low mileage Michelins mounted on a Dodge pickup.
It seems to me that manufacturers are shooting themselves in the foot. Consumers aren't dumb and they remember when getting screwed.
I agree about Goodyear Marathons being a crummy product and Goodyear doesn't have the excuse of being pressured by a car maker.

[Jim & Susan]

Originally Posted by markdoane

It sounds like the fault lies with Dodge as much as Goodyear. Thye might have put cheap tires on that truck to hit your price point.

That, or the dealer may have done a take-off. Switched your OEM tires with something cheaper. Did the window sticker agree with the actual tires you got?

Ditto.

Susan bought a Chrysler Mini-Van two Christmases ago. Factory installed tires didn't last 30,000 miles (don't remember the brand, dang it). Replaced them with 60k mile Goodyears.

I'm convinced that most old line, big name manufacturers still produce a nice passenger car tire product, provided it's designed and built in North America. But that's just passenger car tires. Once outside that range, however.......

In other words, they just put a low mileage tire on the truck to get it out the door of the dealership. I'm convinced that Goodyear still makes some good products.

Jim

[TheCabin]

I agree that ST tires do not seem to be built for today's desired travel scenario. But then as has been mentioned on other threads, the trailers might not be built to handle the desired higher speeds. My question though is how do we handle the liability of replacing ST tires with LT tires when a company like Michelin says this:

........

Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.

In regards to the email you sent stating:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I need to replace the tires on my travel trailer.**Your XPS RIB® are listed as suited to recreational vehicles?**Does this include travel trailers?**Of course the loading must be within the rating of the tires.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
*
Thank you for your interest in getting Michelin tires for your Travel Trailer. If the tires you have are the same size as the XPS Rib tire and is not a Special Trailer tire, then Michelin XPS Rib is a great tire for you. You will want to verify the corner axle weights of your Travel Trailer to verify the load is within range as well.
*
ST (Special Trailer) tires are constructed with heavier materials in the casing as compared to passenger rated tires giving the ST tires more strength and load carrying capacity. ST tires also have a stiffer sidewall and flex less making them more compatible with the trailer’s suspension system.

We do not recommend using LT (light truck) tires*on trailers that specify ST tires. If the trailer manufacturer calls for ST tires, it is important to replace with ST tires in order to maintain the load requirement.

, I hope you find this information helpful.

We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Michelin.

It is our goal to ensure that your issue has been resolved or your question answered to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 1-888-622-2306 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 5:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday.
*
Sincerely,

XXXX
Consumer Care Department
Certified Michelin Product Expert

[Mrjkq]

Originally Posted by markdoane

It sounds like the fault lies with Dodge as much as Goodyear. Thye might have put cheap tires on that truck to hit your price point.

That, or the dealer may have done a take-off. Switched your OEM tires with something cheaper. Did the window sticker agree with the actual tires you got?

I will look Into that as I have the window sticker, thanx!

[Jim & Susan]

Originally Posted by TheCabin

I agree that ST tires do not seem to be built for today's desired travel scenario. But then as has been mentioned on other threads, the trailers might not be built to handle the desired higher speeds. My question though is how do we handle the liability of replacing ST tires with LT tires when a company like Michelin says this:

........

Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.

In regards to the email you sent stating:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I need to replace the tires on my travel trailer.**Your XPS RIB® are listed as suited to recreational vehicles?**Does this include travel trailers?**Of course the loading must be within the rating of the tires.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
*
Thank you for your interest in getting Michelin tires for your Travel Trailer. If the tires you have are the same size as the XPS Rib tire and is not a Special Trailer tire, then Michelin XPS Rib is a great tire for you. You will want to verify the corner axle weights of your Travel Trailer to verify the load is within range as well.
*
ST (Special Trailer) tires are constructed with heavier materials in the casing as compared to passenger rated tires giving the ST tires more strength and load carrying capacity. ST tires also have a stiffer sidewall and flex less making them more compatible with the trailer’s suspension system.

We do not recommend using LT (light truck) tires*on trailers that specify ST tires. If the trailer manufacturer calls for ST tires, it is important to replace with ST tires in order to maintain the load requirement.

, I hope you find this information helpful.

We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Michelin.

It is our goal to ensure that your issue has been resolved or your question answered to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 1-888-622-2306 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 5:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday.
*
Sincerely,

XXXX
Consumer Care Department
Certified Michelin Product Expert

Maybe that's why Michelin doesn't build an ST tire. They just done't want to wander into that quagmire. Good call from a business perspective. They do have a heavy truck line (18 wheelers, not sure what to properly call those).

I with they did make an ST tire, though. I think Michelin makes the best passenger tires on the planet. They'd probably run everybody else out of business.

Jim

[mojo]

Originally Posted by markdoane

It sounds like the fault lies with Dodge as much as Goodyear. Thye might have put cheap tires on that truck to hit your price point.

I believe that car manufacturers offer OEM tires that are more suited for performance than longevity. Many of the 1/2 ton trucks come with passenger tires rated for summer use which tend to wear very quickly, regardless of brand.

[AnnArborBob]

Quality issues aside, ST tires generally have higher load capacities than do passenger or light truck tires of a similar size. However, if you carefully consider the load carrying capacities and inflation guidelines of passenger or light truck tires, they are perfectly safe for use on travel trailers. If you need further proof of this, consider that Airstream uses Micheline light truck (LT) tires as standard equipment on some of it's premium TT models.

[Mrjkq]

Originally Posted by TheCabin

I agree that ST tires do not seem to be built for today's desired travel scenario. But then as has been mentioned on other threads, the trailers might not be built to handle the desired higher speeds. My question though is how do we handle the liability of replacing ST tires with LT tires when a company like Michelin says this:

........

Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.

In regards to the email you sent stating:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I need to replace the tires on my travel trailer.**Your XPS RIB® are listed as suited to recreational vehicles?**Does this include travel trailers?**Of course the loading must be within the rating of the tires.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
*
Thank you for your interest in getting Michelin tires for your Travel Trailer. If the tires you have are the same size as the XPS Rib tire and is not a Special Trailer tire, then Michelin XPS Rib is a great tire for you. You will want to verify the corner axle weights of your Travel Trailer to verify the load is within range as well.
*
ST (Special Trailer) tires are constructed with heavier materials in the casing as compared to passenger rated tires giving the ST tires more strength and load carrying capacity. ST tires also have a stiffer sidewall and flex less making them more compatible with the trailer’s suspension system.

We do not recommend using LT (light truck) tires*on trailers that specify ST tires. If the trailer manufacturer calls for ST tires, it is important to replace with ST tires in order to maintain the load requirement.

, I hope you find this information helpful.

We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Michelin.

It is our goal to ensure that your issue has been resolved or your question answered to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 1-888-622-2306 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 5:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday.
*
Sincerely,

XXXX
Consumer Care Department
Certified Michelin Product Expert

This has been a concern of mine from day one, liability! If you're not switching to 16" rims & E rated tires of whatever brand in LT tires than you could find yourself in the middle of a lawsuit in the event of an accident & God forbid a death caused by underrated tire failure. ST tires with few exceptions are not up to the job however, they are the industry standard & that's what counts in a lawsuit especially one where your insurance backs away because YOU, yes YOU decided your smarter & caused this tragedy by putting inadequate tires on that trailer.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Mrjkq

This has been a concern of mine from day one, liability! If you're not switching to 16" rims & E rated tires of whatever brand in LT tires than you could find yourself in the middle of a lawsuit in the event of an accident & God forbid a death caused by underrated tire failure. ST tires with few exceptions are not up to the job however, they are the industry standard & that's what counts in a lawsuit especially one where your insurance backs away because YOU, yes YOU decided your smarter & caused this tragedy by putting inadequate tires on that trailer.

I suppose one could even argue that using GYMs that seem likely to have faults is itself negligent and cause for liability - though no one is suggesting that's the case. I don't believe anyone has proven the liability connection that concerns you. Unless your insurance contract says otherwise, they're not going to back away from the claim, including liability claims. You may be dropped for renewal or your premiums would likely rise significantly.

That quote from Michelin says basically that if the trailer maker specifies ST tires, they (Michelin) don't recommend using non-ST tires. That doesn't say they forbid it - that says they don't recommend it. The DOT explains how LT or even P rated tires are to be treated WHEN used on a trailer (implying they can be used for that purpose). And clearly, since some models leave the mothership spec'd for those Michelin LT tires, you can also interpret the quoted Michelin note to endorse use of the LT ribs version for those trailers.

Just my $0.02...

[TheCabin]

I did not think that AS even used the RIB on those trailers with the LT. Another thread mentioned that the LT was chosen for look.

[Lance M]

I have a 2014 RAM 1500 with the Goodyear Wrangler SR-A P275/60R20 tires from the factory. (made in USA) I have about 32,000 miles on them now and they are wearing just fine. I'm pretty sure I should easily get 45,000 miles of service from them. I have had three punctures, but that isn't the fault of Goodyear. They are quiet, ride well and the handling is pretty fair. They do not have very good traction on wet pavement or sand/snow/off road. These tires have actually renewed my confidence in Goodyear. I think I may put a set of Goodyear Wrangler Adventure with Kevlar AT tires on when the SR-As wear out. Goodyear makes many different lines of tires. I think their OE supply contracts are an acceptable tire. Not the best, but not the worst either.

[Lance M]

I like Michelin tires. They get their good reputation from producing good tires.

However, this line from Michelin,

ST (Special Trailer) tires are constructed with heavier materials in the casing as compared to passenger rated tires giving the ST tires more strength and load carrying capacity. ST tires also have a stiffer sidewall and flex less making them more compatible with the trailer’s suspension system.

tells me they are just giving you a standard canned answer. The statement above has been refuted by a tire engineer on this forum.
Bringing up the liability concern is not founded in any case or violation that can be referenced. I think it is self propagating FUD and nothing more. If you make the proper calculations and install tires of the correct size, load carrying capacity, and derating if necessary, then you are doing it right. How could you be held liable for using a tire that is being used within its design limits?

[Mrjkq]

Hey Lance, for me that's the disappointment, a previous truck turned 45k before replacing tires. Unfortunately I don't remember the manufacture but 25k is not acceptable, they were probably Michelins. My wife drives a 2011 Cadillac SRX with 35k miles & her tires are not Goodyear & still good. Just frustrating !!!

[vintageracer]

ALL the trailer tires available today in the USA are made overseas and that includes the Goodyear Marathon brand of trailer tire. The trailer tires available to us today in USA are JUNK!

I run LT truck tires on all my trailers including my 1 car, 2 car, enclosed and RV trailers. I run 75-80 MPH loaded all the time on the interstate. The trailer tire problems I experienced IN THE PAST ALL ENDED when I started running good quality name brand LT truck tires on my trailers replacing the offshore ST trailer tires.

I have had excellent service from the Firestone Destination LT tires and/or Michelin LT truck tires installed on my trailers. NO failures, NO tread separations, NO NOTHING! Just miles and miles of happy hauling.

The absolute BEST LT truck tire out there is the Michelin XPS tire. It should be as it has an all steel construction including the tread belts AND all steel sidewall tire belts. These tires are HEAVY as hell and expensive as hell at $300 a pop. The last set I purchased lasted over 100,000 miles on my Ford Dually truck. Available only in limited sizes they are the best LT truck tires out there IF you can stand the upfront cost to buy em!

[Mrjkq]

Originally Posted by Top

I like Michelin tires. They get their good reputation from producing good tires.

However, this line from Michelin,
tells me they are just giving you a standard canned answer. The statement above has been refuted by a tire engineer on this forum.
Bringing up the liability concern is not founded in any case or violation that can be referenced. I think it is self propagating FUD and nothing more. If you make the proper calculations and install tires of the correct size, load carrying capacity, and derating if necessary, then you are doing it right. How could you be held liable for using a tire that is being used within its design limits?

I'm not a lawyer but you're the one ( or anyone ) who has to spend thousands of dollars defending yourself because of this issue. Personally I believe LT tires are great for trailer application but they are not designed for that use, that's my point. If you think Michelin is going to assist you in this type defense, well I don't!

[gandttimes]

My 2008 GM 1500 came with Goodyear Wranglers. I replaced them at 5 years use with about 110 K ( kilometres) and went to the wranglers with Kevlar. Now have about 40k on the new tires. BUT! Like with my Goodyear ST's which I have had only one issue with in 10 years ( my fault) and thousands of K's I regularly check air pressure and when towing, do not drive faster than the recommended 65MPH.
I personally have only had one experience with Michelin tires and they were a dismal failure. Possibly it has coloured my opinion.
So, I personally won't use anything other than Goodyear, as I won't drive anything other than GM.
Doesn't make other makes and models bad but when you have good experiences with whatever you are using one tends to keep on using them.


George