Dexter Axles for Overlander

[Fishbone]

My previous thread was closed and Andy's response was removed before I could digest the information in it and I still have many unanswered questions. Andy if you wouldn't mind adding some of your comments about the Henshen brakes as on the previous thread I would appreciate it.
Here is the information I have retrieved regarding Dexter axles to this point.
3000lb-#10 axle
10" x 2 1/4 brakes #K23-026-00 and #K23-027-00
57 7/8 outside bracket or inside frame to frame
76 3/4 hub face to face
9 1/4 over hang or frame to hub face
6" arm length
6 lug with 5.50 center
Reverse low profile side mount bracket
EZ lube, I think I read perma lube is only on the smaller axles. (Actually perma lube is only recommended on 0 offset wheels.)
There is a 32 degree down angle available that is not listed in the technical material on the web site. I think the OEM had a smaller down angle?
My original question was do the axles come as a complete set or does Dexter just price separate pieces?
Does anyone have information about spindle size and bearing size between Dexter and Henshen.

[Mexray]

We used 3500# Henshen's from Inland RV with 12 in brakes...got them as a complete set, axle beams, backing plate assemblies, hub/drums, bearings and seals, complete ball of wax, as they say...I had to assemble the pieces, no big deal - the brakes come assembled on the backing plates...

Andy specs the axles as a direct replacement of the originals - ours fit right on without any difficulties or modifications required...and easy change over...

The only modification I made was to replace the grease seals with Kodiak oil bath type seals and hub caps...this kind of setup keeps the bearings fully lubed at all times, but it's a bit harder to re-adjust the bearing pre-load, and you have to be precise when installing the special oil bath seals in the hubs...

[Fishbone]

I wasn't aware that Andy sold Dexter axles.
He only offered me the Henshen axle.
Are you happy with them and how long have you had them?

[Mexray]

You're right, I got it confused, the brakes, hubs, etc were from Dexter, I believe, and the axle beams are Henshen...

[Diesel1]

I can't answer any Dexter Questians , except I would ask them if they can make a 3k axle with 12 inch brakes. After much searching I ordered from Andy, it just seemed eaiser. For me the cost difference was about 200 bucks more with Andy . He has supurb customer service.
When I ordered from Andy the first thing they tried to sell me was 3500# axles. After some talking they found they could sell me 3000# axles with 12 inch brakes. My original axles were 2600# with 12 inch brakes. I was leary of the added capacity, what with Andys continuall harping about beating the trailers with stiff suspension. And it still seems odd to me that he only sells such heavy axles but....
My studies seem to indicate that my 1967 Tradewind came with a 22 degree down angle, Andys new axles are only avalable at 33-35 angle. So I worried about all these things. Also on the 1967 era the bolt holes on Andys axles do not match, none of them, also you must weld on your own shock mounts.
I am saying this for information, not to bitch. I am very happy with my new axles I have towed about 3k miles and all is well. But there is a BUNCH of conflicting and misinformation out there. Adios, John

[Fishbone]

I have ordered a number of items from Andy and agree the folks at Inland are very helpful. He posted information making comparisons between the 10" and 12" brake dilema and it was deleted and my post closed prior to me reading it thoroughly. Im still searching for the info.
Shipping is a big issue for me and I decided to research my options.
I also know that stopping my can is very important and safety is paramount. I am not being cheap by researching Dexters, I am only trying to be well informed. If I was cheap I wouldn't be restoring a 1967 Airstream. Thank you for your comments.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by phoney

I wasn't aware that Andy sold Dexter axles.
He only offered me the Henshen axle.
Are you happy with them and how long have you had them?

We do not sell Dexter axles, nor will we ever sell them.

They do not offer, in our opinion, axles ratings that can be selected for a wide variety of Airstreams, without making compromises, as well as starting angles.

Dexter does make a good axle, but the choices a buyer has, is limited. Henschen axles, are custom made for each application, and the choices are many fold.

Dexter also, equips down graded 10" brakes on some of the smaller rated axles, on trailers that were built with 12 inch brakes, and should, for safety reasons, stay that way. Along with the down graded brakes, Dexter also installs a smaller spindle with smaller bearings.

That does not sound like a prudent axle business operation, at least in our opinion, and obviously to many others as well.

Andy

[Fishbone]

Andy,
Thanks. On a recent post you made reference to stopping specs between the 10" and 12" brakes that I had not seen before. Your response was deleted before I could digest the info, do you still have the information?
Gary

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by phoney

Andy,
Thanks. On a recent post you made reference to stopping specs between the 10" and 12" brakes that I had not seen before. Your response was deleted before I could digest the info, do you still have the information?
Gary

Gary.

I will post that again when I get to my office later today.

Andy

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by phoney

Andy,
Thanks. On a recent post you made reference to stopping specs between the 10" and 12" brakes that I had not seen before. Your response was deleted before I could digest the info, do you still have the information?
Gary

The following specs were obtained from the respective manufacturers, namely Dexter for the brakes and Timken for the bearings.

Stopping pound ratings, per axle.

10 inch brakes 3500 pounds
12 inch brakes 5200 pounds with LM67048 bearings
12 inch brakes 6000 pounds with 15123 bearings
NOTE: The different 12 inch outer bearing hubs, use different magnets.

Bearing ratings (radial load)

L44649 1620 pounds used with 10 inch brakes and a #84 spindle (small)
L68149 2070 pounds used with 10 inch brakes and a #84 spindle (small)

LM 67048 2130 pounds used with 12 inch brakes and a #42 spindle (large)
15123 2730 pounds used with 12 inch brakes and a #42 spindle (large)
25580 4880 pounds used with 12 inch brakes and a #42 spindle (large)

A #84 spindle (small) has a maximum rating of 3500 pounds per axle
A #42 spindle (large) has a maximum ration of 7000 pounds per axle.

These specs clearly show the huge downgrade in bearing weight carrying capacity, and stopping pounds, when changing from 12 inch brakes, to 10 inch brakes.

The brake specs assume perfect brake adjustment, which is seldom if ever the case. As the miles accumulate on the brakes, the stopping power decreases.

Careful consideration should be given to being talked into brakes and/or axles that are less than the original equipment, as specified by Airstream.

Airstream carefully specs out safety items, for very good reasons.

Andy

[tphan]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

The following specs were obtained from the respective manufacturers, namely Dexter for the brakes and Timken for the bearings.

Stopping pound ratings, per axle.

10 inch brakes 3500 pounds
12 inch brakes 5200 pounds with LM67048 bearings


Careful consideration should be given to being talked into brakes and/or axles that are less than the original equipment, as specified by Airstream.

Airstream carefully specs out safety items, for very good reasons.

Andy

Hey Phoney-Some food for thought: 2 #10 Dexter axles would be rated to have 7,000 stopping pounds, if I read that right. I think most Overlanders have a GVWR of no more than 6,000 lb, and a dry, unloaded weight of somewhere around 4,500 lbs, with roughly 450 or so of that being tongue weight, and another fair amount in the axles, drums, wheels, and tires themselves. So it would seem that 2 3,000 lb. #10 Dexters would easily bear the trailer weight, and stop it when needed. My Overlander originally had 2 2,800 lb axles with 12" brakes, but current new Airstream models with tandem axles, and a GVWR of around 6,000 lbs, are equipped (so I am told by an Airstream rep) with- guess what? Dexter #10 axles with 10" brakes. Kind of makes the subjects of "original equipment" and "safety specs" subject to a little thought. Just my take on this, I am not a commercial vendor of RVs or axles, nor an "expert" on anything, and do not stand to profit by your choice either way. Good luck and safe trailering!

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by tphan

Hey Phoney-Some food for thought: 2 #10 Dexter axles would be rated to have 7,000 stopping pounds, if I read that right. I think most Overlanders have a GVWR of no more than 6,000 lb, and a dry, unloaded weight of somewhere around 4,500 lbs, with roughly 450 or so of that being tongue weight, and another fair amount in the axles, drums, wheels, and tires themselves. So it would seem that 2 3,000 lb. #10 Dexters would easily bear the trailer weight, and stop it when needed. My Overlander originally had 2 2,800 lb axles with 12" brakes, but current new Airstream models with tandem axles, and a GVWR of around 6,000 lbs, are equipped (so I am told by an Airstream rep) with- guess what? Dexter #10 axles with 10" brakes. Kind of makes the subjects of "original equipment" and "safety specs" subject to a little thought. Just my take on this, I am not a commercial vendor of RVs or axles, nor an "expert" on anything, and do not stand to profit by your choice either way. Good luck and safe trailering!

The specs that were quoted are for brand new, perfectly adjusted brakes.

More than likely, you will never find that to be true in actual service.

That being the case, you must down grade actual performance, sometimes to 50 to 60 percent.

When that happens, the 10 inch brakes, don't stand a chance, but the 12 inch brakes will still handle the task.

However, if the owner has the 10 inch brakes adjusted prior to every trip, then that becomes a different story.

Maximum ratings are exactly that, when brakes are the subject.

The new style "self adjusting" electric brakes, now become a different story all together.

Andy

[Guido]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

The specs that were quoted are for brand new, perfectly adjusted brakes.

Aren't the specs for 12 inch brakes also for brand new, perfectly adjusted brakes? Apples to apples.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Guido

Aren't the specs for 12 inch brakes also for brand new, perfectly adjusted brakes? Apples to apples.

Your absolutely correct. I accidentally left off the comment about the 12 inch brakes.

That has been corrected.

Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Andy

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

...

The new style "self adjusting" electric brakes, now become a different story all together.

Andy

Andy,

To avoid hijacking this thread, how about a new thread with information on the new "self adjusting" electric brakes?

Bill

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

Andy,

To avoid hijacking this thread, how about a new thread with information on the new "self adjusting" electric brakes?

Bill

Bill.

Good idea.

I will gather up what I can and start a new thread about "self adjusting" electric brakes.

It may take a few days, however.

Andy

[tphan]

I believe most brake controllers can also be adjusted, before each trip if you like, for the most effective trailer braking. For a Prodigy controller, one is instructed to tow on a dry, level, paved surface at 25 mph, and to set the power knob such that when the manual brake lever is activated fully, the trailer wheels come just short of locking up. If you cannot get the wheels to lock up under full power setting, then either they need to be adjusted at the brake drum, or the brakes may indeed be too small/weak to stop the trailer under load. Anyone with 10" brakes on an Overlander (or similar) have this problem, and wish you would have gone with 12" Henschens? Actual stories of failure with #10 Dexter axles might be of more use here than theoretical speculation. So: any horror stories about going from 12" brakes down to 10" brakes, on trailers similar to tandem axle Overlanders?

[dnrtheil]

Originally Posted by tphan

Anyone with 10" brakes on an Overlander (or similar) have this problem, and wish you would have gone with 12" Henschens

I have a single axle 1964 24' Tradewind. Three year old Dexter axle with 10" electric brakes, Wal-Mart $50.00 brake controller. At 25mph +/-, I can lock up both tires, even loaded for a four day camping trip. I went with Dexter's because I wanted to be able to get replacement parts easily, cost, (I found Henschens to be twice the cost), well known brand, my old and current snowmobile trailers have Dexter axles and when I found out I needed a new axle I had 10 days to get it ordered and installed. I live about an hour north of Elkhart, IN I picked the axle up myself.

Derek

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by dnrtheil

I have a single axle 1964 24' Tradewind. Three year old Dexter axle with 10" electric brakes, Wal-Mart $50.00 brake controller. At 25mph +/-, I can lock up both tires, even loaded for a four day camping trip. I went with Dexter's because I wanted to be able to get replacement parts easily, cost, (I found Henschens to be twice the cost), well known brand, my old and current snowmobile trailers have Dexter axles and when I found out I needed a new axle I had 10 days to get it ordered and installed. I live about an hour north of Elkhart, IN I picked the axle up myself.

Derek

Ten inch brakes have a maximum stopping power of 3500 pounds, per axle.

A 64 single axle 24 foot Airstream was originally equipped with a 5000 pound rated axle.

12 inch brakes match that weight rating.

Andy

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

Andy,

To avoid hijacking this thread, how about a new thread with information on the new "self adjusting" electric brakes?

Bill

Bill.

That new thread regarding self adjusting electric brakes, was started, a few minutes ago.

Andy