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Andrew T · 12-28-2014, 12:22 PM

Diesels without an exhaust brake produce very little engine braking because there are no throttle plates in a diesel motor to restrict the airflow.

Gasoline engines naturally have engine braking when the throttle is lifted. However to get sufficient engine braking with a gas engine you need the RPM higher than would seem normal. Most gas engines today need to be run down hill between 3500 and 5000 RPM. As a rule of thumb if you are using your brakes to control speed going down a hill then you are in too tall a gear.

Not long ago when all we had to tow with were 4 speed transmissions you had some fairly large gaps in the speed ranges you could descend at. For example on a 7% interstate grade second gear would hold you at 50-55 MPH but if the traffic was slow or the road was too twisty for 55 they you had to apply brakes and reduce the speed to 25 MPH and then shift into low gear and then likely feed it gas to maintain the lower speed. Today with 6 & 8 speed transmissions you have a much larger selection and you can almost always find the right gear for the speed you want to descend at.

On two lane roads in serious mountains remember that brake temperatures can sneak up on you. For example you may be descending in low gear using engine braking but every 1/2 mile you're putting the brakes on to slow for a switchback. Do this repeatedly and you can still overheat the brakes.

What I do in these situations is use the trailer brakes manually to slow for switchbacks etc. Then if I feel the trailer brakes start to fade I know I have a completely fresh set in the tow vehicle to pull over and stop with and then allow the trailer brakes to cool. I have only had to do this once in all the trips I have taken. That was the sea to sky highway in BC where you go down 11 kilometers of 10% grade followed by 5 kilometers of 15%.

I hope this helps.

Andrew T

Road Ruler · 12-28-2014, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostam

I guess most people take the noise over going off the road due to brake fade.

??? we traverse the grades like most others in a quiet and controlled fashion. Never been off the road or come close to it.

How is the set up on your rig? If you are feeling insecure maybe it's time to have it checked out by a qualified tech.

rostam · 12-28-2014, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

??? we traverse the grades like most others in a quiet and controlled fashion. Never been off the road or come close to it.

How is the set up on your rig? If you are feeling insecure maybe it's time to have it checked out by a qualified tech.

You have a 23 ft vintage Airstream with dry weight of 3400#. Heavy duty diesels with exhaust brakes are for big boys.

mojo · 12-28-2014, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostam

You have a 23 ft vintage Airstream with dry weight of 3400#. Heavy duty diesels with exhaust brakes are for big boys.

I didn't know Mercedes GL 350's had exhaust brakes either. What size AS do you tow rostam?

ROBERT CROSS · 12-28-2014, 06:20 PM

Streamers' never learn......theres no such thing as a 'perfect' toe vehicle.

'cept the one YOUR using.....

Bob

dkottum · 12-28-2014, 07:22 PM

mojo, I think he's lots of Air and no 'stream. It is a mystery to me why he checks into every towing thread and tells us what we can't do that we are already doing.

Bigventure · 12-28-2014, 07:54 PM

I tow with a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel. It's a v6 and gets 30 mpg as a driver and 16 mpg towing. I think this qualifies. It cost less than VW & Mercedes comparables.

rostam · 12-28-2014, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojo

I didn't know Mercedes GL 350's had exhaust brakes either. What size AS do you tow rostam?

I don't think I ever mentioned that GL 350 has exhaust brakes -- I was clearly talking about heavy duty trucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkottum

mojo, I think he's lots of Air and no 'stream. It is a mystery to me why he checks into every towing thread and tells us what we can't do that we are already doing.

I should update my profile with "Currently looking" as I am currently looking for an Avion. Its usually a bad sign, when there is an ongoing discussion and you start picking on the fact that I do not own an Airstream, instead of focusing on the discussing itself. To me it shows you have nothing to add to the discussion.

I am an auto enthusiast hence I frequent the tow vehicle threads. I am not telling you what to do or not to do. You however, tow with a full size pickup truck and show up in every towing thread telling folks they can tow with a sedan.

Road Ruler · 12-29-2014, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostam

I was clearly talking about heavy duty trucks.

No doubt..... an interesting point considering the OP clearly stated....

"Searching for the perfect tow vehicle that is NOT a truck or mom van/SUV!"

Glenritas · 01-30-2015, 08:56 PM

A side note,
If for some reason, Like the cord disconnects from the TV, a newbe mistake OR the trailer brakes don't work for some other reason. Will your TV have enough brakes to stop the rig in a reasonable distance going down a 6% grade at 60 m.p.h. ? Food for thought.

When I decided to get a new TV I test drove a Nissan NV and a Toyota Tundra . I brought them home put a stinger in their receivers and hooked up our '69 25' Tradewind with just lights as the TV's had no brake controller.
I took them for a test run at 35 , 45, 55 and 65 mph they both stopped just slightly longer then without the AS .

Panama Red · 01-30-2015, 09:55 PM

I thought we had decided a long time ago that the best TV was a Chrysler 300...

This debate has become so old that it is a running joke here. It's like, which is better, a Les Paul or a Strat? Jim Beam or Jack Daniels? Best defensive round? Potatoes or potatoes... Everybody thinks they have the answer, but it's all subjective. There's a thread on here right now that is debating whether raising your camper three inches on ride height is dangerous or not. Crazy! There are so many variables when it comes to towing a camper that there is no perfect, or "right", tow vehicle, or ride height, or tire selection, or speed to tow, or weight distribution hitch, or tire pressure, etc. etc. We look like fools debating it endlessly. Yes, there are things that make towing our campers more safe... But I bet money, very good money, that you aren't doing them all, so get off of everyone else's arse (I feel so Brit when I use that) about what they are towing with, or how they are towing, or at what speed, or on what tires, or with what hitch, or which tow vehicle...

Good googly moogly that feels better. I'm so sorry... But this has been driving me nuts for a long time. I guarantee, GUARANTEE, that if you're towing your Airstream down the road tomorrow, you WILL have an SOB pass you that has under inflated tires, driving too fast, camper rides too high, on ST tires, no weight distribution hitch... And they will have a huge smile on their face, because they are fat, dumb, and happy that they are going camping. Sure, there will be some wrecks, but it's more likely to be caused by the idiot texting than anything we are towing to go camping...

Y'all try to be safe. Study up on what it is that you are doing. Take precautionary measures. Be aware. Slow down and enjoy the journey... But PLEASE let's stop the "my way is the only way" crap that we do... There are people that have been doing this a lot longer than you, that have never had any trouble, and never will, and they don't do it the way you want them to.

-Red, realizing no one holds the patent on the only way...

Flame away! I expect it... Still love you though.

Panama Red · 01-31-2015, 06:06 AM

Sorry for the rant... I usually type those up and then delete them. Wishing I would have on that one also. Thinking on it, I have picked up some really good info from some of the big arguments, which overall makes me a more safe operator. And most times it's fun to just be a spectator.

-Red, unranting...

rostam · 01-31-2015, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panama Red

Sorry for the rant... I usually type those up and then delete them. Wishing I would have on that one also. Thinking on it, I have picked up some really good info from some of the big arguments, which overall makes me a more safe operator. And most times it's fun to just be a spectator.

-Red, unranting...

It was a good, honest post which I enjoyed very much, especially the first line about 300

Glenritas · 01-31-2015, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostam

It was a good, honest post which I enjoyed very much, especially the first line about 300

Also the stablemates Charger, Challenger and Magnum.

megster · 01-31-2015, 09:35 AM

Panama red that was a GREAT post! I really appreciate you perspective.

slowmover · 01-31-2015, 10:07 AM

It's knowing the limits, Red. There are those here who cannot do the reasoning separating themselves from abstractions under dispute.

Discussing risk minimization is different than anecdote, and not always black and white. Increasing risk is not inherently dangerous in and of itself by necessity. It is to be looked at in series or in combination with other factors to determine that risk-taking. This is the point where things fall apart in threads.

Add up the weak points. Emotions about my pickemup, etc, get in the way.

The trailer is the best by design is a given. A huge burden removed.

But does it have new axles and tires? New brakes? Full voltage or pressure? Zero brake drag adjustment? Ideal bearing preset? Verified alignment? New breakaway switch? Chains rated properly with proper TV attachment (which is not to the hitch receiver)? LED lighting? A good long list to go through. And there are usually upgrades.

Same for the TV. Worst is a 4WD with non highway tires. And tires pressured too highly because the driver thinks it feels better. Inadequate WD. Etc etc.

"Best" is something else entirely.

Add in a change such as lifting the trailer and I can show you what can happen when the other weak links are not addressed. It is but one change. "Convenience" is not a reason, but rationalizing, when the rest of the combined vehicle is not addressed. Changes can exert too high a price for some added convenience.

Thus the usual descent into thread problems. Arguments descend to driving skill which is beside the point. Not relevant.

drboyd · 01-31-2015, 10:40 AM

What you want is 1970 Buick Electra 225!!

http://gomotors.net/photos/38/63/ski...ar_2979d.jpg?i

timhortons · 01-31-2015, 07:35 PM

Is a terrible tow vehicle. Even with the 450HP SRT V8. The driver is very low off the ground and will feel very unimportant and become depressed and will steer the rig into a nearby canyon/crevasse.

I won't name names, but I've seen some Toyota FJ TV that look terribly weight unbalanced. Like front wheels ready to go off the pavement balanced. The owners were complaining about traction. Go figure. Great view up there though.

Jim Flower · 01-31-2015, 08:17 PM

Slowmover,
"Chains rated properly with proper TV attachment (which is not to the hitch receiver)"
This caught my eye. I have always attached to the little brackets that are part of the hitch receiver. Is this incorrect? Jim

Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

slowmover · 02-01-2015, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Flower

Slowmover,
"Chains rated properly with proper TV attachment (which is not to the hitch receiver)"
This caught my eye. I have always attached to the little brackets that are part of the hitch receiver. Is this incorrect? Jim

Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

The hitch receiver can come off the TV. The chains are to be attached to the TV independently of the hitch receiver so as to keep the trailer attached.