Batteries

[trumpetguy]

I see a lot of battery questions here and rightly so. A Group 27 battery such as most trailers are equipped with can only do so much due to limited Amp hours. If you plan to run on batteries alone more than a few hours buy a couple of Trojan or Crown six volt batteries and wire to make a twelve volt unit. You will have more usable Amp hours, and many more charging cycles. Flooded batteries can live happily in the exterior battery box but if like myself you prefer AGM technology you will need to house them inside the Airstream. Remember that larger cables will carry more current. I used 1/0 welding cable for all my battery to inverter connections.

Vinnie's Northbay Airstream sells a battery box extender to accommodate the height of six volt batteries.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by trumpetguy

I see a lot of battery questions here and rightly so. A Group 27 battery such as most trailers are equipped with can only do so much due to limited Amp hours. If you plan to run on batteries alone more than a few hours buy a couple of Trojan or Crown six volt batteries and wire to make a twelve volt unit. You will have more usable Amp hours, and many more charging cycles. Flooded batteries can live happily in the exterior battery box but if like myself you prefer AGM technology you will need to house them inside the Airstream. Remember that larger cables will carry more current. I used 1/0 welding cable for all my battery to inverter connections.

Vinnie's Northbay Airstream sells a battery box extender to accommodate the height of six volt batteries.

Actually, Airstream equips all new trailers with a pair of Interstate Group 24 liquid lead acid batteries. These have even less capacity (80 amp/hours each) than a group 27 @ 100 amp/hours.

[CruizinDux]

I too am considering the box conversion now so I'll be ready for the new 6's once the Interstate take heir last breadth.

Here are some links I have been saving. Vinnies looks like a great product. The $110 tag + shipping to me is pretty reasonable. For DIY'rs self fabrication may make sense. Dropping the bottom as opposed adding a channel spacer to gets a bit more complicated (IMO).


Vinnie's reference starts wit Mainstreamer on page 2 and more links and deyails/great pics frm greghoro on age 3 Nice install!

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...es-150077.html

or
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f37/...5s-149505.html

or
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449...-124829-2.html

This thread is what got me thinking of the conversion. comments post # 18 from IDROBA, RIP. An AS owner/AF contributor, a generous sharer of vast knowledge.

Bob

[SSquared]

Originally Posted by trumpetguy

[snip].....Flooded batteries can live happily in the exterior battery box but if like myself you prefer AGM technology you will need to house them inside the Airstream......[snip]

Actually, I believe AGMs are fine in the outside battery box. I have mine there. Maybe you were thinking of Lithiums? I have heard they need to be in a protected space.

[Troutboy]

I have been told by several battery Companies and a few smart folks on these forums that AGMs are way better than regular flooded cells, and can be kept in the battery box. Lithiums should be housed inside the trailer as they can be impacted ore by temp swings.


Thx
Troutboy, aka Rich

[lewster]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

I have been told by several battery Companies and a few smart folks on these forums that AGMs are way better than regular flooded cells, and can be kept in the battery box. Lithiums should be housed inside the trailer as they can be impacted ore by temp swings.


Thx
Troutboy, aka Rich

Lithiums should be placed in a position that is out of the weather (preferable inside the trailer or coach) for several reasons…
• the actual batteries contain sensing electronics which don't like to get wet
• since lithiums should not be CHARGED at below freezing temps to prevent cell damage, they should be installed to allow them to either be disconnected from all charging sources or to use an automatic temperature based disconnect system when the battery temperature drops below 34ºF
• You can USE (discharge) lithiums down to -4ºF, so placing the units inside will allow them to warm from the heating action of a furnace or similar device to above the 34ºF threshold that will then allow them to begin the charge cycle.

[trumpetguy]

Crown battery company advised me to house the AGM batteries inside.

[Troutboy]

I plan to put my new AGMs inside.....

Also putting four AGM 6V to replace the two stock interstates. I am wondering the best place and the tongue weight impact.

I receive my flying cloud 2017 23d in two weeks so will know more then, but based on research and visiting the dealer, it looks like in have two options for placement:

1. Under the bed- would add lower weight to tongue, seems to be more central so maybe Towing and balance better? Seems like wiring would be more intense and access not as easy.
2. Under the lounge below the TV on fridge side - seems easiest for room, access, and wiring of new system, but will it impact Towing and weight distribution. Would add more weight to tongue than under bed option.

I will be removing 90 pounds from the tongue, but adding around 240 pounds further back.

Anyone have any suggestions or thoughts on which location would be better?


Oh, and thanks Lew, good to know on lithiums for that upgrade someday in the future!

Thanks!


Thx
Troutboy, aka Rich

[slowmover]

From the standpoint of housing, option one looks best for the trailer weights.

As to service, venting, etc, don't know, but it's where I'd start.

[dkottum]

We struggled with the battery upgrade location problem this summer. Putting heavy AGMs on one side throws off the side-to-side balance of our Airstream, and putting them in front or rear messes up the fore/aft balance. Our trailer tows beautifully as it is and we didn't want to mess that up. Nor did we want to lose interior storage space.

Not willing to spend the money or really needing lithium batteries, we decided to put the largest batteries that would fit in the Airstream battery box, which are two Lifeline GPL 31XT giving us 250 amp hours. Tight fit but they go in by trimming the lip under the battery hinge away and mounting fore/aft.

A little more weight in front but it didn't change the loading on the truck when I scaled the rig with weight distribution set. I think they're back far enough that most of the weight was distributed to the Airstream's axles.

[leedav]

Don't AGM's require a higher charging voltage than what the stock converter provides? like 14.4 vs. 13.5?

[GenXair]

Following discussion.

[Marygb]

following discussion, and have a perplexing question of my own as a newbie. I have a brand new SPORT 2017 model with the Interstate battery (SRM-24). I want to go dry camping, but have been hampered by concerns over the batteries. I can get 13.6 while hooked up to shore power, but the battery quickly goes from 12.8 to 12.2 once disconnected, within a day. No appliances or lights are being left on while I run this test. The battery has been taken to Interstate for testing and passed with flying colors.
Am I ever going to be able to go without hooking up to 30amp power??

[leedav]

Originally Posted by Marygb

following discussion, and have a perplexing question of my own as a newbie. I have a brand new SPORT 2017 model with the Interstate battery (SRM-24). I want to go dry camping, but have been hampered by concerns over the batteries. I can get 13.6 while hooked up to shore power, but the battery quickly goes from 12.8 to 12.2 once disconnected, within a day. No appliances or lights are being left on while I run this test. The battery has been taken to Interstate for testing and passed with flying colors.
Am I ever going to be able to go without hooking up to 30amp power??

have you tried it with the battery switch disconnected? that could help isolate if it is the battery or the rest of the system. Only draw should be the carbon monoxide thing with the switch set to off

and BTW a full battery is about 12.7v. anything more is residual plate charge from the charging process

also my sport came with a bad battery. it had a dead cell but the guys at interstate said it was OK. I also added a second battery to my sport b/c we almost never stay at an RV park.. and we have a propane powered generator to top up each day

[lewster]

Originally Posted by leedav

Don't AGM's require a higher charging voltage than what the stock converter provides? like 14.4 vs. 13.5?

If you want your new, expensive AGM batteries to last more than 6-12 months, providing them with a proper charge is a MUST! I am not familiar with the specific charge requirements of other battery brands, but I will address the required charge levels for Lifeline AGM batteries as they are the only AGM battery that I use for my installations.

A constant voltage charge like the one that your OEM Parallax converter will provide is a sure death sentence for Lifelines. A continual 13.6VDC will never completely charge the Lifelines, nor will it allow then to float. They require complete 3-stage charging, along with temperature compensation that will properly adjust the charging set points relative to the ambient temperatures found at the batteries. this is done via a temperature sensor associated with the charging device.

Many folks use the Progressive Dynamics converters as a go to charging system, as it is considered a 'smart' charger.....but IT IS NOT THAT SMART!!! While it does change the voltage levels while charging, they are definitely NOT what Lifeline recommends for their products and there is no temperature compensation to very the charge voltage as the battery temperature changes with the ambient temperatures.

Those recommended charging levels are as follows:

•*bulk: 14.2-14.4VDC at full amperage output until the 14.2 threshold is reached
•*absorption: 14.2-14.4VDC with a diminishing amperage level
• float: 13.2-13.4VDC
**NOTE: all of the above are wench batteries are at 25ºC (77ºF)

For true 3-stage charging, the best devices are fully programmable with integrated temperature compensation. Many of the more expensive inverter/chargers like Magnum and Victron offer this feature, as do many stand-alone charging systems like the Victron Phoenix or Victron Skylla products. There is also a good selection of programmable battery chargers in the marine market.

Many folks have experienced battery life longer than 5 years using the Progressive Dynamics products, but most of these same folks do not 'push' their batteries on a regular basis and are generally seasonally campers.

I have several clients that have large Lifeline battery banks in their 12th year and are still above 90% capacity. This is primarily due to the limited depth of discharge that the batteries experience, along with their very sophisticated charging systems.

If you look at the Lifeline tech manual: http://lifelinebatteries.com/wp-cont.../12/manual.pdf
there is a chart towards the back of the manual that details the expected life of these AGMs relative to the depth of discharge (DoD) they experience. It shows 1000 charge cycles at a regular DoD of 50%, while this number jumps to 5000 charge cycles at a 10% DoD.

There are many other factors that are directly related to battery life, but proper charging is at the top of the list.

[SSquared]

Originally Posted by Marygb

following discussion, and have a perplexing question of my own as a newbie. I have a brand new SPORT 2017 model with the Interstate battery (SRM-24). I want to go dry camping, but have been hampered by concerns over the batteries. I can get 13.6 while hooked up to shore power, but the battery quickly goes from 12.8 to 12.2 once disconnected, within a day. No appliances or lights are being left on while I run this test. The battery has been taken to Interstate for testing and passed with flying colors.
Am I ever going to be able to go without hooking up to 30amp power??

You could have a bad battery. Or you could have something in your trailer that is draining your battery without you knowing it.

I recommend that you buy a electircal meter (volt/ohm/amp) meter and learn how to use it. You can get basic models for 5-25 dollars. Nicer ones go for 50 to 100. I really like the one I have now: It has a clamp-on section you can use for measuring current without having to disconnect/reconnect wires like you have to do with the cheaper one; but this model cost me about $100.

(caution: on some meters with clamp-on systems, the clamp-on only works for AC current; you want a meter that can also measure DC current)

To investigate the possibility that you have something draining your battery, you want to measure the current being drawn from the battery when everything is turned off. That number won't quite be zero, because the propane detector is always on, and there may be one or two other things that could be drawing a little bit of current. But this amount of current should be on the order of 0.1 amp. That can run your battery down in a few weeks, but not in just a day.

If you find the current draw to be larger, then it is time to do some sleuthing.

If your trailer is like my 2013 model, it has a use/store switch. That should cut off all power to the radio, interior lights, water pump, thermostat, fridge, etc. Turn it to "store" then try to turn on some lights inside. They should not turn on.

Do you have an inverter? They are usually not affected by the use/store switch. Can you find the wire to the inverter? If so, measure the current. If not, find the fuse for it and measure the current at the battery with the fuse installed; then remove the fuse and measure again.

Also find the wires going from the battery to the jack (if you have a power jack) and the breakaway switch. They should have zero current on them.

Another way to look at this: If all you do is measure the current draw from the battery while it is sitting there, you can calculate how long it should take the battery to drain. If your current draw is just a fraction of an amp, and the battery goes flat in just a day, you have proven that the battery is bad, regardless of what you were told.

[Troutboy]

Lewster,

Any thoughts/advice on battery location.....
Thanks!


Thx
Troutboy, aka Rich

[Alluminati]

Not all batteries in the same group will carry the same amps.

We were looking at replacement batteries at an auto parts store. Fortunately they had only one in stock, so I didn't buy it. Later I went to Walmart, and found greater amp capacity in the same group at a lower price (and they had several in stock).

[lewster]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

Lewster,

Any thoughts/advice on battery location.....
Thanks!


Thx
Troutboy, aka Rich

Generally, I place most of my new battery banks inside the trailers that I work on. Several reasons:

•*they are not subject to the temperature fluctuations of outside ambient temperatures
• they are closed to the large draw components like inverter/chargers and require less cabling for easier installation
• they are closer to the axles and either mitigate or reduce tongue load issues

[travco72]

When considering charging and the gases created on some types of batteries is it ok to install any type of battery inside the trailer? Lead acid, AGM and lithium? Thanks.