Gas vs. Diesel in the New World...

[madrone]

I had a '91 Dodge/Cummins that I put over 250,000 miles
on and purchased at full price because you could not get
discounts at the time. At that point the Cummins ran exactly like it did new but everything that said Dodge was
worn out. I replaced it with a new '04 Nissan Titan that I bought from a dealer at a tremendous discount in May '05.
Yes when towing I get 10mpg instead of 13 and when not
towing 15 instead of 19, but I am using less expensive regular gas. Another factor if you boondock far from the beaten path as I do it is much easier to find gas. No regrets here.

Steve
WBCCI#1989
1989 Excella 29ft
1961 Avion Tourist 20ft
2004 Nissan Titan

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, hiker. Check this out. I did some math.

355 lbs torque ..........................................my torque
x 83% = 294.65
355 + 294.65 = 649.65 ..............................your torque
83% more torque for your diesel.

330 cu. in. .............................................my cu.in.
x 22% = 72.6
330 + 72.6 = 402.6 ....................................your cu.in.
73 cubic inches more for your engine

Theoretically if my engine was 22% larger [same size as your's]

355 lbs torque .........................................my torque
x 22% = 78.1
355 + 78.1 = 433.1 ...................22% theoretical torque

433 theoretical torque
x 50% = 216.5
433 + 216.5 = 649.6........Theory only, not real. If my gas engine was the same size as your Diesel engine, 22% larger and had the same percentage torque increase, your diesel would still have 50% more torque size for size. This makes mine not look as bad as the 83% difference considering my smaller engine.

Bob

[Minnie's Mate]

I think we are about to get to the point that we need to get out the tape measure and start unzipping our pants!

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

I think we are about to get to the point that we need to get out the tape measure and start unzipping our pants!

Hi, and you thought putting it in your pipe and smokeing it was bad!


Bob

[SilverGate]

Diesel for me in the New World!

Well… after much homework and reading your messages…
I dove in and bought diesel:
2006 F-250 PSD CC XLT… Silver, of course:
See photo below…

It all came down to geography and longevity…
Diesel power is more suited to traversing the surrounding mountains.
And this truck needs to last long into my retirement.
The built-in brake controller and tow mirrors sweetened the deal.
Thanks all for sharing your experiences, thoughts and feelings.
Lets keep posting our experiences as the "New World" evolves…
As the new ULSD fuel is introduced…
As oil leaks in Alaska and is found in new places…
What will it be for you… gas or diesel?

Bill

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

I think we are about to get to the point that we need to get out the tape measure and start unzipping our pants!

I don't think so.

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by SilverGate

Diesel for me in the New World!

Well… after much homework and reading your messages…
I dove in and bought diesel:
2006 F-250 PSD CC XLT… Silver, of course:
See photo below…
Attachment 25742
It all came down to geography and longevity…
Diesel power is more suited to traversing the surrounding mountains.
And this truck needs to last long into my retirement.
The built-in brake controller and tow mirrors sweetened the deal.
Thanks all for sharing your experiences, thoughts and feelings.
Lets keep posting our experiences as the "New World" evolves…
As the new ULSD fuel is introduced…
As oil leaks in Alaska and is found in new places…
What will it be for you… gas or diesel?

Bill

Bill, nice truck. I have driven the PSD and the DMAX in the past week hard to find fault with either one. Those mirrors are nice. I hope you got the Labor day deals.

Jim

[hiker]

Silvergate,
Congratulations. That's one nice looking truck.

[nymphfishin]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

I think we are about to get to the point that we need to get out the tape measure and start unzipping our pants!

There is only one way to settle this now,
Take them to the strip and bring the pink slips.

Judgeing will be on what?
Fastest,
Quitest,
Best fuel economy,
Best ride,
You will have to make multiple runs with trailer in tow,
Without trailer,

Can I bring the Kenworth with 600 HP, 18 speed tranny?
Quater mile speed of 118mph, with AS in tow?

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, and you thought putting it in your pipe and smokeing it was bad!


Bob

My point is everybody is saying my tow rig is better than yours. Reminds me of the sophomoric bosting of our younger years when the only way to solve the matter was to get out the ruler and settle it once and for all.

Originally Posted by nymphfishin

There is only one way to settle this now,
Take them to the strip and bring the pink slips.

Judgeing will be on what?
Fastest,
Quitest,
Best fuel economy,
Best ride,
You will have to make multiple runs with trailer in tow,
Without trailer,

Can I bring the Kenworth with 600 HP, 18 speed tranny?
Quater mile speed of 118mph, with AS in tow?

This is the essence of my jest.

Originally Posted by SilverGate

Diesel for me in the New World!

Well… after much homework and reading your messages…
I dove in and bought diesel:
2006 F-250 PSD CC XLT… Silver, of course:
See photo below…
Attachment 25742
It all came down to geography and longevity…
Diesel power is more suited to traversing the surrounding mountains.
And this truck needs to last long into my retirement.
The built-in brake controller and tow mirrors sweetened the deal.
Thanks all for sharing your experiences, thoughts and feelings.
Lets keep posting our experiences as the "New World" evolves…
As the new ULSD fuel is introduced…
As oil leaks in Alaska and is found in new places…
What will it be for you… gas or diesel?

Bill

Congradulations on one really great tow vehicle. You made a great choice. I have the 2005 version of your truck in a different color and really enjoy it as both daily driver and tow vehicle. You will really enjoy yours, too. Did you get the leather? It makes for a real sweet ride.

There are other great tow vehicles as we have seen on this thread, but I don't think any will beat the F-250 PSD...that's just my personal opinion, not necessarily fact, just opinion.

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by nymphfishin

There is only one way to settle this now,
Take them to the strip and bring the pink slips.

Judgeing will be on what?
Fastest,
Quitest,
Best fuel economy,
Best ride,
You will have to make multiple runs with trailer in tow,
Without trailer,

Can I bring the Kenworth with 600 HP, 18 speed tranny?
Quater mile speed of 118mph, with AS in tow?

Chain them togehter and see who can pull who around, a lot of smoke and noise.

Jim

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

My point is everybody is saying my tow rig is better than yours. Reminds me of the sophomoric bosting of our younger years when the only way to solve the matter was to get out the ruler and settle it once and for all.
This is the essence of my jest.
Congradulations on one really great tow vehicle. You made a great choice. I have the 2005 version of your truck in a different color and really enjoy it as both daily driver and tow vehicle. You will really enjoy yours, too. Did you get the leather? It makes for a real sweet ride.

There are other great tow vehicles as we have seen on this thread, but I don't think any will beat the F-250 PSD...that's just my personal opinion, not necessarily fact, just opinion.

Watch the leather seats very closely, my wifes Explore seats are not holding up well 36 K. The driver seat in my SuperCrew Lariat 72K had a wire used to form the seat bottom come thru the leather cover in two places. I pulled the seat out this weekend and cut the wire with my dremel and patched the holes, not easy. Shop wanted $200.00 for the repair. Yes the PSD is a very nice truck.

Jim

[peegreen]

How come regular has dropped about 50 cents per gallon this past week, but diesel hasn't dropped a cent?

[Frank S]

Hi Jim Clark--Regarding your seat wear--My experience is that cloth seats wear better than leather. All of my vans and Suburbans have had cloth (hard to find on a dealer lot) because we believe it is more comfortable. Warmer in winter, cooler in summer. Don't wear the finish off the edge of the drivers seat, sliding in and out. More forgiving when you slide in with a screwdriver in your back pocket. The cloth seat recommendation applies the same for gas or diesel.--Frank S

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by Frank S

Hi Jim Clark--Regarding your seat wear--My experience is that cloth seats wear better than leather. All of my vans and Suburbans have had cloth (hard to find on a dealer lot) because we believe it is more comfortable. Warmer in winter, cooler in summer. Don't wear the finish off the edge of the drivers seat, sliding in and out. More forgiving when you slide in with a screwdriver in your back pocket. The cloth seat recommendation applies the same for gas or diesel.--Frank S

Frank, I agree. I ended up with 2 Ford leather interiors due to the way the deals worked out, sometimes the car with the most options are the better deals. The broken wire was caused by the sliding in and out. Tore a couple pairs pants also. I will try to go back to cloth on the next truck.

Jim

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by Jim Clark

Frank, I agree. I ended up with 2 Ford leather interiors due to the way the deals worked out, sometimes the car with the most options are the better deals. The broken wire was caused by the sliding in and out. Tore a couple pairs pants also. I will try to go back to cloth on the next truck.

Jim

Often, the leather seats are dealer installed. They are actually seat covers and can be removed to expose cloth seats underneath. Obviously, you would have found out if this was the case with yours when you removed the seat to cut the wire. Virtually all cars that are true imports (foriegn made, not foriegn badged made in US) come with cloth seats to keep import duties low and have items such as leather seats, AC, stereo, moon roofs, and other options that add a lot to the value added by the dealer. When we bought my wife's Expedition the dealer told us if we wanted the leather seats he could have them installed in just a couple of days. We opted not to have them in her car since we had two car seats at the time that would have made permanent creases in the leather. I have noticed a little wear on the side edge of driver's seat in my truck, but wasn't sure if it was wear or just burnishing of the leather from my pants. I have less than 20K miles on my truck. I'll have to keep an eye on them between now and 36K.

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Often, the leather seats are dealer installed. They are actually seat covers and can be removed to expose cloth seats underneath. Obviously, you would have found out if this was the case with yours when you removed the seat to cut the wire. Virtually all cars that are true imports (foriegn made, not foriegn badged made in US) come with cloth seats to keep import duties low and have items such as leather seats, AC, stereo, moon roofs, and other options that add a lot to the value added by the dealer. When we bought my wife's Expedition the dealer told us if we wanted the leather seats he could have them installed in just a couple of days. We opted not to have them in her car since we had two car seats at the time that would have made permanent creases in the leather. I have noticed a little wear on the side edge of driver's seat in my truck, but wasn't sure if it was wear or just burnishing of the leather from my pants. I have less than 20K miles on my truck. I'll have to keep an eye on them between now and 36K.

Both sets are factory installed. On the 2001 SCREW the seat bottom has a curved panel which is the wire set into a channel in the foam to keep the shape. I think jumping in and out pushed the wire up and poked the hole. I glued a patch behind the hole and it worked. I have a sail making sewing machine but did not feel like setting it up to sew the cover. I only plan to keep the truck for another 25 K or so. On the wifes car the leather looks dry even after coating with Hyde Food, they will last long enough. I like the smell of the leather and the feel so I am spoiled. Take care of your seats and good luck.

BTW I spent 2 weeks at Fort Wilderness a year ago, it is where I took the family for Katrina evacuation. My son will be 13 on 2-20-07, which is Mardi Gras day. He was offered the opportunity to ride in a Parade or go back to Fort Wilderness for that week, Disney here we come. We like Disney a lot.

Jim

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by Jim Clark

BTW I spent 2 weeks at Fort Wilderness a year ago, it is where I took the family for Katrina evacuation. My son will be 13 on 2-20-07, which is Mardi Gras day. He was offered the opportunity to ride in a Parade or go back to Fort Wilderness for that week, Disney here we come. We like Disney a lot.

Jim

Our first trip to Ft. Wilderness was this past July 4th week end and we have three more trips planned between now and next July 4th (like I said, we are Disney fanatics). I think we may be at Ft. Wilderness part of the same week you will. We are going for President's week end. I can't remember if it is that week or the week before. I'll have to check with the missus. Maybe we'll run into you that week end.

[2airishuman]

hi motorheads...

i've been meaning to get back2 this thread...time now permits...

congrats silvergate on collecting info and making an informed decision...

the truck looks great, and i hope it lasts as long as mine...

like a few other antidiesel folks, i used to be mighty anit...

then i asked myself the question...self why?

usually when i'm really against something, eventually i realize how little i know about whatever that is.....

seemed this applied to diesels too...so i started reading, visiting mechanics, diesel shops and so on...

then i drove some...

the more i learned and tried 'em the more i liked 'em. so finally when looking for a towing beast....the choice wasn't hard...for me.

the debate here has been interesting...

with bob carrying the gas load and billtex slinging the less refined stuff...

bills big mulitmedia post doesn't say diesels have few parts...rather it says gassers have many more moving parts....

well that still isn't true...unless referring to my trusty mazda wankel...which DOES have fewer moving parts...

the parts debate might better be phrase...gasser parts move faster!

displacement, forced air induction, intercoolers, engine weight, torque/power curves, and so on really make it hard to compare the 2 and prove which is 'better'...has more economy and so on. even debating which is cleaner is complicated...first ya gotta define clean....

most would agree that most diesels engines deliver the goods at lower rpms...a good thing for towing/hauling.

the widespread use of turbo chargers on diesel and gas engines adds a whole 'nother set of issues...

without getting into the debate....gas engines have many appealing features....they are somewhat simple and have lower build costs and readily available fuel...the are almost universally available. they aren't very efficient. by that i mean they waste alot of the energy contained in gasoline...i think this is called thermal efficiency...and it's low. gas engines produce low amts of particulate and nitrogen was products but more carbon monoxide...

diesels operate at higher compressions...someone said they don't have an ignition systems...well really they do...compression IS the ignition system. anyway they are often more 'overbuilt' because of the higher compressions and torque. they can be run on a variety of fuels. diesel fuel has more calories per unit and in many parts of the world diesel fuel is taxed less so it IS cheaper than 8dollar a gallon gasoline. diesels are more thermally efficient. they convert more fuel energy to motion and combust more completely...they do produce more nitrous waste products but less carbon monoxide....

and so on...goes the debate....

so this thread is about the new world...of ulsd. how about the future world?

what IF we could have the best of both gas and diesel?

high compression, durable long lasting engines..
no spark plugs, more complete fuel combustion, better thermal efficiency...
better fuel economy AND lower emissions...
towing torque and daily driver power...

well this might read like fiction or fantasy...but it could be just around the corner too...

one word...hcci
ok, it's 4 words...homogeneous charge compression ignition...

ever heard of it? not likely even amoung fuel soaked motorheads...

here is a simple story about it from autoweek....

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...1/TOC01ARCHIVE

and google the 4 words for more detailed info...even university papers on it...

i was planning my next tow truck to be a superchief/multifuel hybird...

but now i want an hcci...which i'll pronounce hickey!

cheers
2air'

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, those of you who have older cars or trucks may know about this; And this could happen again, but this time to you Diesel people? [No bad wishes] What I'm talking about is, I bought a 1959 Ford Galaxie in 1977 and completely rebuilt everything, engine, transmission, brakes, body, well like I said, everything. Less than 20,000 miles on my nicely rebuilt engine, it started to fail. I don't remember being warned. And as a dealership mechanic I should been some where on the inside. What I'm trying to say is, Unleaded gasoline killed my engine. I was lucky to save my heads with new valve guides, new valves, hardened valve seats installed, new lifters, and new camshaft. After this I have a hard time trusting reformulated gasoline. And now they are reformulating Diesel fuel. How are the older engines going to work / and last with tomorrows fuels?

Bob