Old Flying Cloud 1953

[3Ms75Argosy]

No, as long as the shell is sitting "all the way down", then no, I wouldn't worry about it. Two things come to mind though... check to see if the old rivet lines in the outside shell aproximate where they should intersect on the c-channel ... they should be in line with the c-channel for re-riveting. 2) check to make sure the shell is down evenly side / side. If you note one side (street vs curb) is sitting down more than the other, then yes, I'd try to get the shell down more. If one side is sitting in the channels more "vertically" than the other, then I think your shell might be racked to that side a tad.. you might need to open the channel a bit more on that side to make it all right.

Also, since it looks like the rear floor isn't in all the way, the "hanging" rear might be putting pressure on the sides, not allowing them to sit all the way down..

My hunch is that you're fine. But again, I don't have my trailer here to compare too... I don't remember thinking that the ribs were square to my channel though...
Marc

[pbearsailor]

but the pictures don't show it well.

Mine definitely come in at a small angle to vertical. Some fit down to the bottom, some are cut off way up, and some more just touch the C channel. I don't have the small bits spliced in like Marc and Scott, but for sure, the fit of the ribs into the C channel was not a big deal to them when they made it.

cheers,
steve

[soldiermedic]

Bob and I just finished working for the day. The front and rear floor are cut, but for some reason, the floor in front and rear was NOT at the same height as the rest of the floor. The gap at the end caps was abundant. We actually used a small jack on the rear of the trailer and raised it up a small amount. This not only fixed the gap in front, but in back as well. There is document info somewhere about the amount of flex in an Airstream frame, and I guess this is proof.

Pics later...we're starving and need to eat!

Steve

[A-Merry-Can]

Looking good, man! If you haven't already, make sure the frame is perfectly level and straight before you rivet the shell on. I've read a lot about people skipping that step and ending up with a droopy trailer after all the hard work. :-S

Once again, I'm glad to see you through the toughest part!

JP

[soldiermedic]

We have a free day to work Monday since it's a holiday. As long as rain doesn't hamper us that is. I bought 24 feet of Alclad 2024-T3 yesterday for $300 at a local shop. Turns out my second cousin runs the place. No discount, but Airparts was $3.25 a foot more plus shipping.

The plan is to remove the front panel, finish the front belly pan with it out, and then rivet it back into place. Then I want to add the front windw, and the side windows that I had rebuilt.

In another week I will be removing the large rear hatch on the back panel (Anyone need this?), and overlaying the panel. It should also give me enough scrap to redo my fender flares and rebuild the door within a door.

Steve

[A-Merry-Can]

Originally Posted by soldiermedic

We have a free day to work Monday since it's a holiday. As long as rain doesn't hamper us that is. I bought 24 feet of Alclad 2024-T3 yesterday for $300 at a local shop. Turns out my second cousin runs the place. No discount, but Airparts was $3.25 a foot more plus shipping.

The plan is to remove the front panel, finish the front belly pan with it out, and then rivet it back into place. Then I want to add the front windw, and the side windows that I had rebuilt.

In another week I will be removing the large rear hatch on the back panel (Anyone need this?), and overlaying the panel. It should also give me enough scrap to redo my fender flares and rebuild the door within a door.

Steve

That's a deal on the Aluminum. I paid way more than that when I reskinned my little guy.

On the hatch, does it look like this one? Mine has a big puncture in the side. I planned on fabricating a new one, but if you're is in good shape, I'll buy it from ya!

JP

[soldiermedic]

That's my hatch alright.

We can work it out over emails.

Steve

[soldiermedic]

Today is the day your mother warned you about. Xbob and I spent all day working, and have a $100 sheet of mostly wasted aluminum to show for it. We removed the front lower panel, and were working on the belly pan. I took the old belly pan and laid it on a new sheet of 5052. I cut the sheet with extra around the edge figuring that the excess would just tuck up in between the shell and c channel. We rivited it to the chassis below, and began to wrap the side. We started just front of the door, and moved forward. After we bucked three of the segments on, the lower panel started to ripple, and was permanently buckled.

I have looked over and over, but have not found an excellent thread that has good belly pan pictures step by step. Can anyone think of what we may have done wrong?

One thing to mention is that the original belly ban had a very small curve cut from it on each side near the flat section. The factory also used shorter spans of aluminum than the four foot section I was using
.
I hope to right this before Saturday since the trailer is sitting without a front panel now, and it open to the weather other than the small tarping that likely won't hold up to a gust of wind.

[RichHog]

Anybody who takes a camera under a trailer and gets a good pic of the underside should get some of that left over chilli you guys made!
Good to see your workin on her!
R

[A-Merry-Can]

PICS! post pics so we can see what you are talking about. I'm not clear whether it's the side or the belly that's buckling. Check out my thread around post 78. I had to redo the front part on mine twice to get it right. One thing I learned about the belly pan is smaller pieces is not a bad idea. A sheet of aluminum can only bend on one axis without relief cuts.

Whenever I get to my liner, I'm planning on running the belly from the side down to the frame on each side, and having a third piece that runs down the middle. That will make it easy to take that middle section out in the future, if an emergency arrises, AND the flat piece in the middle will much simpler to fit (plus it will cover any of the alignment issues that might come up from the side belly pieces.)

Send me your number. I'll give you a call on my way to my lunch meeting.

JP

[Melody Ranch]

You say....
One thing to mention is that the original belly ban had a very small curve cut from it on each side near the flat section. The factory also used shorter spans of aluminum than the four foot section I was using

Could those curves cut from each side actually be stress reliefs?

Pics help.

General question to the knowlwdge base out there....why cant we use '0" or "SO" (soft) aluminum sheet for the belly pan corner sheets? It would work better and the "softness" should not matter on the belly.

[3Ms75Argosy]

I do agree that pics would help. Are you using cleos to set the panel first prior to bucking? That would allow you to get the panel set right prior to the riveting. I do seem to remember that Utee and others have tucked the panel under the skin first, working from the curve of the front back towards the door. I also think that having longer tabs under the skin makes for a harder curve to bend, even with relief cuts put in. Both Frank and Marcus have a couple of shots of them making the belly pan.... I remember that it took Frank a couple of tries prior to it really "clicking." Keep at it!
Good luck!
Marc

[Xbob2]

Originally Posted by A-Merry-Can

PICS! post pics so we can see what you are talking about. I'm not clear whether it's the side or the belly that's buckling. Check out my thread around post 78. I had to redo the front part on mine twice to get it right. One thing I learned about the belly pan is smaller pieces is not a bad idea. A sheet of aluminum can only bend on one axis without relief cuts.

Whenever I get to my liner, I'm planning on running the belly from the side down to the frame on each side, and having a third piece that runs down the middle. That will make it easy to take that middle section out in the future, if an emergency arrises, AND the flat piece in the middle will much simpler to fit (plus it will cover any of the alignment issues that might come up from the side belly pieces.)

Send me your number. I'll give you a call on my way to my lunch meeting.

JP

Steve,
Our problem started because we didn't make a relief cut right at the seam of the side panel and the curved front panel ... we can drop the pan and re-cut exactly the same as the old one complete with center tang. That leaves us a 2'+ filler panel ... or we could use the back half of the failed belly pan for the 2'+ filler.
Looked at the Ambassador and even though some of the belly pan is 3 layers thick in places AND patched there is a cut or panel seam at the start of each curve.
A-Merry-Can's page 6 of his thread shows his first try and it is as bad as ours!
Bob
Bob

[A-Merry-Can]

Originally Posted by Xbob2

A-Merry-Can's page 6 of his thread shows his first try and it is as bad as ours!

ha! I never claimed to be an expert! Everything's easier the second time you try it, though.

JP

[Xbob2]

Originally Posted by A-Merry-Can

ha! I never claimed to be an expert! Everything's easier the second time you try it, though.

JP

Yeah, but you went from a totally trashed end piece to a very decent one! With no info on how you got it right!
AAAARRRRGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!
Bob

[soldiermedic]

Saturday, October 24, 2009

Another couple of days, and a few steps closer

Since my last post, Bob and I have worked a few times on the Flying Cloud. Our first step was to get the front and rear sub floor installed. We spent a few hours one morning taking measurements, and looking at the only piece of flooring that I was able to salvage from the original. By the end of the day, we had both front and rear curves cut and installed. We also installed a long piece of angle aluminum to act as the steel backing plate found in most Airstreams, but not found in the early 50's (at least not on mine).

The next order of business was the front belly pan and panel replacement. The original front panel looks like it had been in a jack knife with both front corners dented, painted, and had bondo filler. It had to be replaced. I took off the front panel first to make it easier to do the front pan.

Panel removed, and belly pan ready to put in place

I won't lie...it was a monster. We didn't have a special curved cut in the side of our version, and it completely effected the outcome. Our panel buckled multiple times no matter how we tried to work it, and we decided to call it a day. Bob and I both agreed to look over the forums again to see what we needed to do.

Bad buckling



Buckle in an overlap

After some research, it turns out that the small curves were essential to being able to bend it properly, and give relief. We were able to salvage most of the original piece of 5052 that we used, and will need only a small amount of beautification. It still took awhile, but we were able to get the front pan installed, and had minimal effects on the aluminum from our first attempt. We bent the new panel edges into place, and it fit with very minimal adjusting. We were stoked!

Bob lays the original panel over our first attempt.



Bob finishes the new belly piece (Notice the small curves cut on the rear edges)



Front belly pan at the A frame

While Bob was doing some work with the belly pan, I pulled out a nice new sheet of Alclad, and began laying out the new front panel. I traced the outline for the old sheet, and used a sharpie to hit all the rivet holes for drilling. We took a straight edge down the centers of the sharpie marks to ensure we had good markings on center. After we confirmed we were laid out well, I used a spring loaded punch to make a starting point for the drill bit.

Old on top of new to get a perfect cut



Checking out hole placement with the straight edge.



Starting rivet holes with a spring loaded punch

With the front panel drilled and ready for installation, we installed the front window frame back inside the opening. This would gave us some ribs to rivet to, and help the front curves hold the shape they needed to be in before we installed the panel. With the frame back in place, I decided to reinstall the piece of aluminum that I can only describe as a backing plate. This panel must have been used for rigidity.

Window frame and front ribs back in place.


Backing panel reinstalled

With the backing piece in, Bob and I grabbed the wobbly new front panel. To our surprise, the panel was very easy to bend around the front, and get into place. We placed a cleco in each window corner, and on at the edge of the 13 panel line of rivets. We proceeded to line up the holes on the front panel, and cleco them into place. One by one we pulled the clecos and buck riveted the panel into place.

Bob poses after getting the panel roughed in

I drilled the front while Bob pushed the backside with a piece of steel to prevent dimples.


Almost finished with the panel


Making sure the Clecos we re holding


The first in a long line of buck rivets

The front panel was stable and attached to the front ribs. We decided that we had enough time to rivet both sides of the panel to the 13 panel crown. We started working from the window to the outside with our drilling. The rivet holes in the 13 panels crown made it simple to follow. We placed a cleco after each hole was completed. Bob was still pushing on the inside with a piece of steel so we didn't dimple the skin. By now, a good friend of mine named Rob had arrived with his family for dinner, and helped us out. He would pull the cleco out of the hole before Bob and I bucket it in permanently. Every other rivet we moved to opposite side of the panel to prevent it from walking. Rob probably saved us 20-30 minutes of just picking up the cleco pliers every time we finished with a rivet. After a loud 25 minutes, we arrived at rivet nirvana.

Streetside front

Curbside front

We are hopeful that tomorrow we will have a chance to get the front window installed along with two other completed windows, and get the front panel riveted to the C channel.

Hope you enjoyed

[whitsend]

Another couple of days, and a few steps closer

Steve - Beautiful work for sure. Congratulations to you & Bob on a job well done!!

[dieseleagle]

It looks terrific. I'm especially impressed that you did it in one piece. On my 63 the middle is separate from the two corner pieces. Like they say, "many hands make light work".

[toastie]

Originally Posted by soldiermedic

Saturday, October 24, 2009


Hope you enjoyed

Are you going to add a front and rear hold down plates.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...ose-41064.html

toastie

[soldiermedic]

This trailer never had a front or rear steel plate attached to it. In there front there were several sheets of aluminum to stiffen the panels up. I did install a thick and heavy piece of aluminum angle there to attach the shell to, and that has to be better than the original.

Steve