Visit our Popular Forums

paiceman · 12-11-2016, 05:49 PM

Huh, found another pressure or air bleed off valve. This one is in the rear on the curb side under the black plastic vent.

Lets travel · 12-11-2016, 06:54 PM

Wow, thanks for all the great Info, don't know why airstream would not let people know of these other bleed points.

Sparr · 12-18-2016, 12:58 PM

Well, we have our first issue with our Alde Heater, the gas heater runs for about 1 to 2 minutes then stops. The antifreeze overthrow is also empty. Anyone had this issue with the Alde Heater no heat? Airstream is shipping Alde Heater antifreeze and I hope that once filled and the air purged it should run fine? Any thoughts?

dickschaak · 12-19-2016, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paiceman

Here is a PDF I made on the Alde air bleed off valves I have found so far. These are for the twin model which we have but should be appropriate for the queen as well. I you click on the yellow sticky notes I put a very brief explanation as to where the points actually are. The one under the kitchen sink seems to bleed off the most air. The one under the bathroom sink is way back on the right side and on the back behind the beds it's directly under the road side vent on the back shelf area.

Bud

Hi Bud,
Your posts have been a big help. Thank you. We will be taking our 2017 30 Classic on its maiden voyage on Jan 15th. I have be en following the various post regarding bleeding the Alde system and found it hard to accept that we should have to be concerned about so many bleeder valves so I talked to Dan, Airstream's National Service Manager, asking what is the proper way to bleed the system. Here is what Dan told me:
1. Make sure the system is full of Glycol.
2. Go into "settings" and have the Alde run on continuous. (This surprised me because the manual says to shut off the pump when bleeding, but he was firm on this point. He said that there was no way that air could enter the system during bleeding.)
3. Then go to the highest point in the system which is the towel bar in the bathroom and bleed that valve. This is the highest valve and the furthest away from system. No other valves need to be bled.
4. Check the expansion tank to see if more Glycol is needed. (The air pockets that were removed have to be replaced with Glycol.)
5. DONE.

This procedure may have to be repeated a few times. He said that if your towel bar is hot all the way around the system is working the way it should.

We can't wait to get on the road and head for Texas. It was 20 below last night so we plan to stay in hotels for the first two night. When we get to Oklahoma I will commission everything. (I think)

paiceman · 12-20-2016, 04:54 AM

dickschaak: I am not about to start an argument with Dan. He helped us tremendously when we first got our unit and had same issue as you did. We took it back to the factory and had it looked at then.

That said, the Alde service manual states do not have the system running when bleeding. Next, when venting at the various bleed points the one I have found to release the most air every time is the one under the kitchen sink. The way I've done it works for me so I am going to continue doing it until the system settles out. Again, it works for me, but again strictly my opinion, but there is an overflow hose running from yours and my reservoir tank, if the system is pumping, I am not an engineer, I would think air could be sucked in thru that hose as I cannot find a valve on it anyplace. It simply drains out the overfill in the tank and runs to the outside.

When we visited the factory they filled our system, purged it and the reservoir was full of Alde fluid. We drove about 15 miles and camped the night. Then drove home which was 256 miles. The reservoir was empty. This is when I started doing research on the system. I talked to customer service at Roadteck and Tear Drop trailers both of whom use the system. Tear Drop sent me the hot water adjustment Rivitville posted a while back. Both companies told me to find bleed points and finish at the highest point. The point is in my opinion, no matter how well the system is purged and filled for a while it's going to still have air and the fluid will settle. Just sitting and running off and on mine has had to have three fills and purges.

Time will tell. I will await to see how the procedure recommended by Dan works and if it does, then I'll certainly switch over to this way of doing it.

Bud

dickschaak · 12-20-2016, 06:09 AM

Bud,
You certainly have more experience than I do but I can't understand what would cause that overflow hose to suck in air. I guess Dan can't either. There is no argument that the system has to be purged more than once and also the air pockets n that have been removed have to be replaced with fluid. You have found a way to purge the system that works for you. My intent was to pass on the factory's prescribed way of purging the system. I have not tried either and won't be able to until mid January.

Naper · 12-20-2016, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dickschaak

Bud,
You certainly have more experience than I do but I can't understand what would cause that overflow hose to suck in air. I guess Dan can't either. There is no argument that the system has to be purged more than once and also the air pockets n that have been removed have to be replaced with fluid. You have found a way to purge the system that works for you. My intent was to pass on the factory's prescribed way of purging the system. I have not tried either and won't be able to until mid January.

The overflow hose will not suck in air, its above the fluid level in the overflow tank.
IMO the factory should fill the system under pressure and bleed the air out until the system is air free. Same as you would with brakes on your car.

paiceman · 12-20-2016, 07:11 AM

Not arguing with anyone and appreciate any and all information. That said, as I stated, we lost fluid after factory filled and purged. Then while sitting and testing, lost fluid about four times. Actually I am going to go over to storage and try what Dan suggested if I am down fluid. But, I doubt we are as the past two times running it for 24 hours each time we have not lost any. The reservoir does bubble a lot while the pump is circulating. Naper - if it's a closed system while will the overflow not suck in air? I don't know is why I am asking, as I stated NOT an engineer.

Bud

Naper · 12-21-2016, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paiceman

Not arguing with anyone and appreciate any and all information. That said, as I stated, we lost fluid after factory filled and purged. Then while sitting and testing, lost fluid about four times. Actually I am going to go over to storage and try what Dan suggested if I am down fluid. But, I doubt we are as the past two times running it for 24 hours each time we have not lost any. The reservoir does bubble a lot while the pump is circulating. Naper - if it's a closed system while will the overflow not suck in air? I don't know is why I am asking, as I stated NOT an engineer.

Bud

The fluid is denser than air. If the system is taking on air then its also leaking fluid.

dickschaak · 12-21-2016, 09:43 AM

Bud,
Just a guess but, if the expansion tank is bubbling it must still have air in the system. Would it help to use the jack to drop the hitch lower than the rest of the trailer? Hopefully the air would rise to the top (towel bar) Also, if you have a smart phone, I found an app, "Alde" that will put the Alde user manual on your cell. Sort of handy. I can't wait for hands on with my trailer.

dickschaak · 12-21-2016, 09:48 AM

Naper,
If Buds expansion tank is bubbling is that air in the system? If so, is it self purging.

dickschaak · 12-21-2016, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naper

The overflow hose will not suck in air, its above the fluid level in the overflow tank.
IMO the factory should fill the system under pressure and bleed the air out until the system is air free. Same as you would with brakes on your car.

I think Alde sells an item called a "filling valve" (?) that does that.

Dick

paiceman · 12-21-2016, 12:04 PM

Tried it all but the bleeding hose that Alde sells. I think it is what the AS factory used on ours when we took it out there in October.

If we still have air, it's hiding in there as I opened every valve several times and bleed off air, then yesterday did the system running like Dan at the factory suggested and opened the towel bar vent.

Still bubbles, not as much but still does. I am not concerned as we have lots of comfortable heat.

Bud

Lets travel · 12-21-2016, 04:48 PM

After reading all these post about bleeding system and then reading all the Alde service manuals, I decided to call Alde, talked to tech services and they are aware of the wrong info that airstream and others are putting out and are now going to dealerships and instructing on the proper operation, repairing and servicing of the Alde system. I think it's just a miss understanding, you do run the pump, but then turn it off and then bleed from the towel bar first, according to tech services you will get the most air from that point. If you need further bleeding run pump shut off than bleed. If you bleed while pump is running you will draw in more air to the system. Hope this helps

dickschaak · 12-21-2016, 06:07 PM

Let's Travel,
Thanks for the info. I hope AS commits to resolving this. Dan, the National Service Manager, myself and others still don't understand how purging the system while operating the pump can introduce air into the system. Maybe the Tech's have a better handle on it. Can't wait.

Lets travel · 12-21-2016, 06:37 PM

dickshaak
What I understand while the pump is running and you open the purge valve, yes you will purge some coolant but you will also pull in air at the same time as the coolant passes by and creates a vacuum in the system. Hope this makes sense.

dickschaak · 12-21-2016, 08:22 PM

Let's travel,
It probably makes sense but I can't seem to follow it. How can air go out (purge) and come in at the same time? As soon as the air is purged the Glycol comes out further blocking any intrusion into the system by air. This is way above my pay grade although my pay grade is extremely low.
Dick

Naper · 12-22-2016, 04:48 AM

IMO air will not come back into the system when purging. The glycol is heaver than air, if a valve is opened glycol will run out and be replaced with the glycol in the expansion tank.
Think of it like this, If you were to open the kitchen facet then open the bathroom facet what would happen? Water comes out of both, right !! Using your logic the bathroom facet would suck in air as the water rushes buy.

paiceman · 12-22-2016, 05:07 AM

Naper, the explanation makes sense - but Alde in their manual and on the phone specifically told me to turn the system off. As usual there are two sides to everything. I tried the system running yesterday afternoon. Ran it from an inside temp of 37F up to 55F, everything was fine, entire towel bar nice and warm etc. Then I opened the towel bar valve - nothing but fluid. Then for giggles and s..., I opened the valve under the kitchen sink - spurted a couple of seconds of air and then fluid. Then the one under the bathroom sink, while system still running - same as kitchen. Then I did the others, nothing but fluid. Then the towel bar again, fluid only. All the while the trailer was 55F and pump was running.

Thanks

Bud

Naper · 12-22-2016, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paiceman

Naper, the explanation makes sense - but Alde in their manual and on the phone specifically told me to turn the system off. As usual there are two sides to everything. I tried the system running yesterday afternoon. Ran it from an inside temp of 37F up to 55F, everything was fine, entire towel bar nice and warm etc. Then I opened the towel bar valve - nothing but fluid. Then for giggles and s..., I opened the valve under the kitchen sink - spurted a couple of seconds of air and then fluid. Then the one under the bathroom sink, while system still running - same as kitchen. Then I did the others, nothing but fluid. Then the towel bar again, fluid only. All the while the trailer was 55F and pump was running.

Thanks

Bud

Sorry for any misunderstanding, I was replying to the comment about air entering the system wile purging with the pump on. I agree, the system should be purged with the glycol hot and the pump off.
Air pockets (if any) will sit in the high spots of the system, as the air moves around the system it will collect at the highest point, the towel bar, thats why Alde recommends purging at the towel bar. I have noticed if the towel bar is not warm on all sides there is air in the system. When the system is working properly the towel bar will be warm on all sides.