Much Ado About ALDE

[Taj MaHaul]

We pick up our new 2018 30’ Classic tomorrow, Tuesday. Been following this thread for last few weeks so thank you all for sharing what you’ve learned. Trailer came off the line 11/8 and so will be keen to confirm firmware and wiring pins on the Firefly & Alde. Will share what we learn soon.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by lukeysh714

We’re in the 20’s. On electric only the Alde glycol temp levels out at 118 F. Turning on propane raises to 149. So I use electric only when just maintaining temp but turn on propane when I want a quicker warmup in morning.

Hi

Our Alde typically shows 110 to 120 on the glycol temperature. That's true with the propane engaged. The only time I see 140 or higher is with the hot water boost function turned on. Based on the fact that the propane delivers massively more power than the electric, if you can maintain 70F indoors at 20F outdoors on electric only (= 50F delta), you should be good to about -80F (= 150F delta) with the propane turned on.

Bob

[kendrick.l.j]

Ferry trails, congratulations on your new Airstream. Some dealers have been very good about setting up the Alde System others not so much. When you do your walk through please make sure to turn on everything and check to make sure you have proper heat and hot water. Seriously, turn on the shower as you would normally and make double sure you have HOT water that will last at least 10 minuets. Yes, I know it’s a bit wasteful but it may safe you from a lot of grieve in the long run. Turn on the AC units to 50 and then make sure you turn on the heat, you should be able to feel heat all around the perimeter. Check the tank, in the bathroom above the towel holder behind the little panel. Do not leave the dealer without 2 bottles the magic Alde fluid.
Other than the Alde system the 2017 Classics are set up like all the other Airstream so there shouldn’t be any problems with any appliances. As you know, the 2018 Classics are having problems with the Firefly interface the Alde hopefully your dealer will have all the latest updates. Good luck, keep us posted.

[Airhead2018]

Originally Posted by kendrick.l.j

I was just telling Bud that I haven’t heard that much from the ‘18 Classics owners regarding heating failures. I was hoping that maybe Airstream and the dealers had learned from the ‘17 roll out and had set up the Alde systems properly. It was just about this time last year when the ‘17 Classic owners started popping up here of the forum and having problems with heat and hot water failure. So here we are a year later and low and behold we are hearing from ‘18 folks having the same huddle.
Kyet...First, to keep you from freezing, go get a couple of ceramic heaters to keep you and your dogs warm while you work through all of the steps to get the Alde working. Then start reading from the beginning the Much Ado Alde. Have you bled the times at all 6 bleed points? If you miss one your system will not be functioning. Is the reservoir full? Located in the bathroom, above towel warmer compartment, left hand side, behind panel. It is very likely you will need to bled a couple of times, this is normal. You may need to top of the fluid a couple of times while you get the air out of the system.
As stated earlier, the heat pumps only work when outside temps are above 40 degrees. This is true of all heat pumps and not just an Alde design flaw. I always have a couple of ceramic heaters in the unit for emergency. When the Alde system is up and running as it is supposed to it will heat the trailer very nicely even with outside temps in the teens...yes, I have data on this as well as other 2017 Classic owners. The system is great and there will be no hot spots or cold spots throughout the TT when set up properly and I as said before it works great even in very cold weather.
The 2018 Classic are configured differently than the ‘17 as the Firefly and Alde are supposed to be linked together. It is my guess that there is a bug between the two, how to fit the issue is great question but until that linked is updated it is my hope that there is some way to override the Firefly and work with just the Alde on its own. If it turns out to be a firmware problem then getting it fixed and fixed quickly may be a very difficult process for individual owners to do on theirs own without a trip to a dealer.

We have a 2018 Classic 30' and really had no initial problems with the Alde system. What we had was a Firefly display that would not stay turn off so you would not have the light shinning all night, so I called Firefly. Well they said I need a GUI & Logic Controller update to the 3.3 version and that I could do it or take it to the dealer. Of course I said I can do it and they sent me a new panel and talked me through the process over the phone. That's when things went down hill and after many hours of scratching my head I found out from Firefly that there maybe a connector issue on the G6 panel. Called Airstream to verify and they sent me an illustration of the fix and I implemented the change. Now everything seems to be working correctly and I can maintain temp at any setting. Hope I am done with that but it helped me get to know how this system works and what kind of support I get from Airstream and Firefly, so all is good.

[Taj MaHaul]

Originally Posted by kendrick.l.j

Ferry trails, congratulations on your new Airstream. Some dealers have been very good about setting up the Alde System others not so much. When you do your walk through please make sure to turn on everything and check to make sure you have proper heat and hot water. Seriously, turn on the shower as you would normally and make double sure you have HOT water that will last at least 10 minuets. Yes, I know it’s a bit wasteful but it may safe you from a lot of grieve in the long run. Turn on the AC units to 50 and then make sure you turn on the heat, you should be able to feel heat all around the perimeter. Check the tank, in the bathroom above the towel holder behind the little panel. Do not leave the dealer without 2 bottles the magic Alde fluid.
Other than the Alde system the 2017 Classics are set up like all the other Airstream so there shouldn’t be any problems with any appliances. As you know, the 2018 Classics are having problems with the Firefly interface the Alde hopefully your dealer will have all the latest updates. Good luck, keep us posted.

Walk thru and systems check went well. The dealer delivered a spotless (as they should) and fully functioning rig. We went thru and sampled just about everything connected to Firefly, Alde, the variety of electronic control panels that are scattered thru the coach. We verified that both Firefly and Alde have the latest firmware (3.3) and that the wiring is now correct. We also had the technician go thru each part of the Firefly and videoed it. That was a help this evening already.

Everything outside worked. Compared to our old 2008 Classic, the new Classic is like comparing the early bag portable phones to today’s slick new mobile phones.

For our first night we are in a nearby RV park and we have a short list of questions (no defects spotted yet) to ask the dealer before leaving tomorrow. We did experience some “burn off” from the Alde when it got hot from our unknowingly boosting the heat to a high temp but otherwise all is well and VERY comfy in our new trailer.

Thanks Lauri for the extra fluid suggestion. Will get some tomorrow before we leave.

[kendrick.l.j]

2 great reports from new 2018 Classic owners so that is really good to hear. I have experienced excellent customer service from Airstream and so glad to hear they are continuing this with the 2018. The Firefly/Alde system is still a learning process for everyone, the dealers, customers and techs so there are bound to be a few glitches but it sounds like the dealers are doing a much better job with setting up the new systems.

[Airhead2018]

Originally Posted by FerryTrails

Walk thru and systems check went well. The dealer delivered a spotless (as they should) and fully functioning rig. We went thru and sampled just about everything connected to Firefly, Alde, the variety of electronic control panels that are scattered thru the coach. We verified that both Firefly and Alde have the latest firmware (3.3) and that the wiring is now correct. We also had the technician go thru each part of the Firefly and videoed it. That was a help this evening already.

Everything outside worked. Compared to our old 2008 Classic, the new Classic is like comparing the early bag portable phones to today’s slick new mobile phones.

For our first night we are in a nearby RV park and we have a short list of questions (no defects spotted yet) to ask the dealer before leaving tomorrow. We did experience some “burn off” from the Alde when it got hot from our unknowingly boosting the heat to a high temp but otherwise all is well and VERY comfy in our new trailer.

Thanks Lauri for the extra fluid suggestion. Will get some tomorrow before we leave.

Congrats on your new unit! Just want to mention that we had an odor in our new unit from day one that I could smell but no one else so I figured it was a the new stuff off gassing. Well after leaving the Alde heat on one cold night using propane it used 1/4 tank which I thought was a lot. I decided to buy a hand held detector to search for any leaks in the system. I found two, one at the Alde unit and one on the outside under the trailer. I tightened the connections and the smell disappeared, all is good. The onboard CO2 detector never went off so we will have that checked when we take it back for service. Hope this is not the case for you but we assumed it was just a everything new kind a smell, but it wasn't.

[cbburke]

After my mediocre weekend testing of our system I'm going to take the forums advice and bleed the system. When the system is on I get quite a churn in the fill bottle.

Got the juice and TSB 170. Thanks for that.
Went exploring for bleed points using the TSB and page IV-1 of the parts book. Found them all including one not mentioned in the TSB. At the step up between the shower floor warmer and the CS bedroom radiator behind a service access in the shower/bedroom wall was another bleed point.

I had also mentioned I didn't see a booster water heater. I was wrong. When I took the forward dinette skirt off there it is. Big sucker, that apparently isn't working. So the dealer gets to sort it out next spring.

Access to the Alde control panel under the galley sink is quite a challenge. It is mounted on a panel behind this new design sink trap. Not easy to see or operate.

I've seen several comments on how the system prioritizes electric over gas when on shore power. That is not the case with this 2018. I have turned the gas function off and on at the FireFly panel repeatedly. My panel is GUI 3.2.
Once the rewire TSB gets installed I'll see about updating the FireFly.

Charlie

[ajwbarnard]

Originally Posted by cbburke

After my mediocre weekend testing of our system I'm going to take the forums advice and bleed the system. When the system is on I get quite a churn in the fill bottle.

Got the juice and TSB 170. Thanks for that.
Went exploring for bleed points using the TSB and page IV-1 of the parts book. Found them all including one not mentioned in the TSB. At the step up between the shower floor warmer and the CS bedroom radiator behind a service access in the shower/bedroom wall was another bleed point.

I had also mentioned I didn't see a booster water heater. I was wrong. When I took the forward dinette skirt off there it is. Big sucker, that apparently isn't working. So the dealer gets to sort it out next spring.

Access to the Alde control panel under the galley sink is quite a challenge. It is mounted on a panel behind this new design sink trap. Not easy to see or operate.

I've seen several comments on how the system prioritizes electric over gas when on shore power. That is not the case with this 2018. I have turned the gas function off and on at the FireFly panel repeatedly. My panel is GUI 3.2.
Once the rewire TSB gets installed I'll see about updating the FireFly.

Charlie

We didn’t have hot water because of a closed valve that supplied water to the Alde. It was barely visible but under piping under the dinette bench in the middle. See the 2018 Heat and Hot water post. (There are pictures there.) Once that valve was open it was just a matter of recalibrating the mixing valve and we were good. This was all thanks to a post left there by another AS forum member. It was very simple once somebody pointed that out. Hope that helps.

[paul.kukstis]

Originally Posted by cbburke

After my mediocre weekend testing of our system I'm going to take the forums advice and bleed the system. When the system is on I get quite a churn in the fill bottle.

Got the juice and TSB 170. Thanks for that.
Went exploring for bleed points using the TSB and page IV-1 of the parts book. Found them all including one not mentioned in the TSB. At the step up between the shower floor warmer and the CS bedroom radiator behind a service access in the shower/bedroom wall was another bleed point.

I had also mentioned I didn't see a booster water heater. I was wrong. When I took the forward dinette skirt off there it is. Big sucker, that apparently isn't working. So the dealer gets to sort it out next spring.

Access to the Alde control panel under the galley sink is quite a challenge. It is mounted on a panel behind this new design sink trap. Not easy to see or operate.

I've seen several comments on how the system prioritizes electric over gas when on shore power. That is not the case with this 2018. I have turned the gas function off and on at the FireFly panel repeatedly. My panel is GUI 3.2.
Once the rewire TSB gets installed I'll see about updating the FireFly.

Charlie

Sorry, but What is the TSB?

[Airhead2018]

Originally Posted by paul.kukstis

Sorry, but What is the TSB?

Technical Service Bulletin

[Taj MaHaul]

Originally Posted by Airhead2018

Congrats on your new unit! Just want to mention that we had an odor in our new unit from day one that I could smell but no one else so I figured it was a the new stuff off gassing. Well after leaving the Alde heat on one cold night using propane it used 1/4 tank which I thought was a lot. I decided to buy a hand held detector to search for any leaks in the system. I found two, one at the Alde unit and one on the outside under the trailer. I tightened the connections and the smell disappeared, all is good. The onboard CO2 detector never went off so we will have that checked when we take it back for service. Hope this is not the case for you but we assumed it was just a everything new kind a smell, but it wasn't.

We too have a “smell” I’ve chalked up to gassing off. Not as pronounced as first night but will try just propane and watch tank level next. Thanks.

[Taj MaHaul]

2nd night update...
We swung by dealer yesterday before leaving Boise and found nearly all our questions had answers that highlighted the learning curve that comes with a new rig (despite owning a Classic for last 10 years). The briefing was quite good the day before and we videoed a number of segments for review later, which helped, however you just can’t take it all in and questions were inevitable. Things we thought might be problems turned out to be operator error Only one small plastic latch needed to be replaced and that may have been us or the prep that caused it to be broken.

We drove about 100 miles and all was well - except for some very occasional sway. We will check with dealer and Equalizer to see what’s what. Equalizer did tell us when we ordered the coach that the same hitch we had for our old 27’ Classic would be enough for the new 30’.

Otherwise, we are very happy. Some friends may have already christened it for us: Taj Ma Haul!

[paiceman]

FerryTrails: We have run the same Equalizer on several AS now. I do take it apart every year and check it out and grease and I also torque all bolts to Equalizer specs and then tighten the sway control bars just a bit more. We only get sway when going about 65 on an interstate and we get passed quickly by a tandem or triple tractor trailer combination and then it's only one sway.

Safe Travels

Bud

[Taj MaHaul]

Thanks Bud. So far it’s pretty minimal and, like you, note the small sway when being passed on the interstate. Mostly concerned with downhill wiggle. Have taken a pic of hitch w ID #s on it and the specs on new and old trailer and sent them off to Equalizer today, asking if it’s still the correct unit.

Bill

[twinkie2]

I have a .pdf regarding the Firefly recall but I can’t seem to post it.

[james.mileur]

http://www.airforums.com/forums/show....php?p=2038672

Mixing valve lessons learned from one our 2018 folks. Be careful out there.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

In my case, the mixing valve took about three or four full turns to get to the "right" place. If you do not pull the valve handle (remove the screw) the adjustment goes about a half turn total.

Bob

[paiceman]

Originally Posted by Taj MaHaul

Thanks Bud. So far it’s pretty minimal and, like you, note the small sway when being passed on the interstate. Mostly concerned with downhill wiggle. Have taken a pic of hitch w ID #s on it and the specs on new and old trailer and sent them off to Equalizer today, asking if it’s still the correct unit.

Bill

Not sure if this is your first travel trailer or not. But, if going down hill be cautious on using brakes as the trailer will have a tendency to swing out to one side as it's brakes, on any trailer, are really not as efficient as your tow vehicle brakes. This is just one reason why we opt for an F350 Diesel as with the engine brake even crossing the Rockies and Cascades on back roads or interstate I seldom need to apply brakes and when I do it's not for long periods. I simply set the engine brake and it does a good job of keeping our speed down while descending.

I hope you post what equalizer replies. I've actually had good luck calling them on some questions I had and gotten helpful and immediate replies.

Bud

[Taj MaHaul]

No, had a 2008 Classic 27' which is why I asked about sway with the new 30' - never had it with older rig. Here is what Equalizer wrote and I have replied with a few more questions. Will keep you posted.

"Thanks for the email. Now all sway control hitches have a resistance to sway which can prevent sway up to a certain point. Most hitches get between 150-250ft-lbs of resistance to sway. The e2 is a great hitch with better than almost any other hitches performance in terms of sway control generating around 350ft-lbs of resistance to sway. The only thing that beats it is the original equalizer four point sway control hitch which gets a whooping 800ft-lbs of resistance to sway. Now if you want I can help you see if we can adjust your current hitch to get better performance out of it, or help you figure out which Equalizer hitch to get, which would you prefer help with?"