VAC in WBCCI, why?

[Zeppelinium]

I've read RGESCH's "MAL" thread (I thought for sure it stood for malcontent ) and others along the same lines, but I'm not sure I understand the VAC as part of WBCCI. I've only been on the forum for 6 months (and 5 days), but I get the distinct impression that many Vintage owners have different objectives than the owners of newer Airstreams. We all share the need for Streamin', boondocking, rallies, and just plain exploring new places away from the herds.

I was twinkering on a banana skin today and thinking...owning a vintage Airstream is a continuous labor of love for a high percentage of us. Knowing the technical details and acquiring the mechanical skills to do a restoration or remodel are high on our list. This doesn't seem exactly copacetic with WBCCI's objectives (but bless them for keeping the flame alive). See the thread http://www.airforums.com/forum...ams-24585.html

There's a distinct difference in the pride one feels in showing up with a spiffy Vintage Airstream with a new modification versus what one would feel showing up with the newest Coach off the dealer's lot. Different, way different. It's a pride in saving something worthy, in one's own skills, in the dedication of time and effort, in thinking that some retro things are waaay cooler than new stuff.

I realize that I'm not describing all vintage owners, maybe not even most of us, but I will ask the question--why is the VAC [still] a subset of WBCCI? If it's historical, I think the surge in Vintage interest has come to the point that it ought to be reexamined.

Thanks, All.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Zeppelinium

I realize that I'm not describing all vintage owners, maybe not even most of us, but I will ask the question--why is the VAC [still] a subset of WBCCI? If it's historical, I think the surge in Vintage interest has come to the point that it ought to be reexamined.

Thanks, All.

Hmmm....a parallel thought occurred from me not long after this post on a different thread.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/254528-post8.html

It is historical and VAC is one of a few subset groups that represent special interests within mother Wally. I also think that it's not easy to get a sub group officially approved. I think there is a Classic club and at least one other group that escapes me at the moment. The newest group I believe is the Classic club and I remember back in 2001 that there was a lot of heat and politics involved in getting the WBCCI to formally approve this subgroup.

Jack

[InsideOut]

You may find some good discussion as to why the VAC remains as an IntraClub here. The thread may be older, but I believe the sentiments are still very accurate.

Shari

[wkerfoot]

If someone wants to start an independent VAC club, go for it.

Bill

[Zeppelinium]

JCANAVERA, I saw your other post and appreciated it very much.

I want to say that as I passed by the International last month, I was totally impressed with the logistics for such a large gathering. The power and water distribution looked great--Atilla, Hadrian, or even Schwarzkopf would have loved it! Kudos to WBCCI.

But that doesn't decrease my angst for "Maintenance Rallies" or "Skill Rallies" that would really be aimed at the Vintage owners. It occurs to me that what the Pensacola Unit is doing, refurbing a Vintage Airstream and then raffling it off, could be a way to have a demonstration going on full time and provide the funds, too. If we could locate a hangar that was affordable and committed to having two projects running all the time, one restoration and one remodel, that would be a draw for many of us. I would add maybe two organized rallies at that location each year so that we could have an Oshkosh-like atmosphere of mentoring and demonstrations.

It has been suggested that maybe such a location ought to be near a community college that would teach some of the skills. That would be great--it works in the airplane world because fixing airplanes has its own job market. It's more limited in the Vintage Airstream world and more of a hobby. The reason the demonstrations are such a draw at Oshkosh is that you watch it being done for an hour or two, then you either get to do it or ask the expert questions for an hour or two. Many of the skills are shared--welding, riveting, aluminum fabrication, electrical--but sometimes airplanes emphasize weight and safety to an extreme and a real cost penalty. A trailer doesn't need that (to the same extent). Watching these demos, I know they'd work for the Vintage community.

but I'll take this over to the other thread....

[Alumaholic]

Originally Posted by Zeppelinium

I realize that I'm not describing all vintage owners, maybe not even most of us, but I will ask the question--why is the VAC [still] a subset of WBCCI? If it's historical, I think the surge in Vintage interest has come to the point that it ought to be reexamined.

Thanks, All.

Here's Fred Coldwell's answer to your question, Zep:

I'm in a yacky mood today, and house cleaning sucks, so I'll take a shot at answering your questions, backwards of course. The VAC Intraclub was conceived in July 1992 and chartered in July 1993, so we have been around conceptually for 14 years, 13 in actuality.

In my opinion, the WBCCI has been a very valuable connection for the VAC. Our "Mom" has given us a template and structure to operate in, many contacts, many events where we gather to meet each other and show off our wares, and many rules to disregard. We get little formal guidance from National but usually a helpful hand, including insurance coverage for our VAC Rallies, a necessity in today's world. We have our own VAC Regional Reps. The best guidance I've personally experienced is learning the nuts and bolts of trailering at local Unit events from the old timers who've been towing for years. Issues that perplex me are often solved in a simple declatory sentence or a quick demonstration. We have a pretty free hand to run our VAC events was we see fit, with no script from National surpressing our ideas. Local scolds and busybodies whose tighties get in a wad at our events are gently encouraged not to sign up for our event the following year, to everyone's relief.

Yes, the VAC could be run as a separate orgnaization, but it would require a lot more work from VAC officers, who are all volunterers and busy enough as is. Could it continue to exist independently? I don't know, as that would take much more time and effort to get up and going than we now spend under the wings of the WBCCI. An independent VAC might sputter and die, while those who make that suggestion remain on their fence. We'd have to construct a whole parallel organization to gain similar benefits to those now available through the WBCCI. Who volunteers to put the bell on that cat? Any fence sitters want to step forward for that task?

In my opinion, its so much easier for the VAC to inobstrusively fit within and benefit from the existing WBCCI structure. At certain local Units, many VACers have stepped forward to become Unit officers. Is it surprising those Units tend to have events that appeal to VACers? ... and which are enjoyed by most regular Unit members, too. We work at making that happen, we just don't buy tickets.

Since many of us still earn a living from day jobs, our VAC Rallies tend to be loose and informal, anti-structure as it were, minimizing weekaday busy schedules for unfettered relaxation and fun. Pomp is booted and circumstances are dealt with creatively. We like to think of our VAC selves as closer in spirit to Wally B than is the more structured WBCCI, which wants to jettison his name and memory [different thread].

I'll repeat this yet again, since the message did not penetrate my thick skull when I was new to the Airstream hobby a few year ago. The major benefit of the WBCCI is the people you meet through it. It's not the Blue Beret, it is not the annual International Rally, it is not the pomp and circumstances or the national politics. It is the local people near you who share your interest in Airstreaming; the WBCCI puts you in touch with such folks both old and new to this hobby. So fence sitters, get off your picket and away from your computer keyboard and go out and meet these folks. That fence picket is making a sharp impression in your derriere ... and if you stay there much longer you'll get stuck. That said, the WBCCI and VAC is not for everybody. And we can count on those few disappointed individuals to constantly engage in cyber bitching to broadcast their discontent. Such is life.
__________________
Fred Coldwell, WBCCI #1510
Vintage Airstream Club Historian
Rocky Mt. VAC Rally Webhopper

2006 VAC Rocky Mt. Rally

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by klevan

Here's Fred Coldwell's answer to your question, Zep:

wow what a great answer.....
wonder which wisenheimer asked the question?

as the applause dies down......
perhaps the rest of the thread is usefull to zep and others?
i know, i know, it's already in shari's link above...
but it's good enough 2 reference again!

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ived+July+1992

cheers
2air'

[Stefrobrts]

Originally Posted by Zeppelinium

But that doesn't decrease my angst for "Maintenance Rallies" or "Skill Rallies" that would really be aimed at the Vintage owners.

As we discovered at the last forum rally, every rally is a maintenance rally - when you're vintage

[Alumaholic]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

wow what a great answer.....
wonder which wisenheimer asked the question?

cheers
2air'

Since you asked...

interesting to read the vintage club issues.....so positively presented.


could the vac exist as a solo organization?

how much is the template, guidance, financing.... and so on that the wb has provided,

how much of a value has that connection been?

the vintage subgroup is what ....less than 14 years old?

cheers
2air'

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

wow what a great answer.....
wonder which wisenheimer asked the question?

as the applause dies down......
perhaps the rest of the thread is usefull to zep and others?

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ived+July+1992

cheers
2air'

2air,

A retorical question, who asked indeed. However I agree that it is a great answer.

Fred, I am still disappointed that you were unable to attend the International. I was looking forward to meeting you.

Bill

[InsideOut]

Originally Posted by klevan

Here's Fred Coldwell's answer to your question, Zep:

The entire context & discussion (41 posts worth) can be found in the Vintage Sub-Units thread

Shari

[2airishuman]

hi bill, kelvan, zep and others......

sure it's was a rhetorical question....
aren't they all when the subject is wb?
getting fred 2 answer the question was the challenge...
and he has other good posts in that thread....

a couple of things i've learned about THIS wb club thing ....

-the vac and classics caravan club, are intra clubs not units...
-they cater to subsets...
-they both are more restrictive regarding membership than the mother club...
-gotta have a 25yr old unit for one and a classic trailer/moho (air or arg) for the other, from any year.....
-that's not bad, just a qualifying issue to become a member of these intra clubs...
-they both benefit from having the mother club deal with most more mundane issues...
-they both/either seem to attract the more talented members of the mother club...
-the membership of either is more focused
-as a member of either your efforts are for a narrower set of issues...
-as an officer or leader in either your efforts go more directly into effect for the defined subset of members...
-new members of either are given more attention...in a positive way.
-members of either seem happier than general membership...
members of either seemed to be aware of the motherclub problems/issues....

i'm sure there are other similarites....
the classics caravan club intreged me and wasn't what i expected....
after talking with some of the leaders, my impression is....
THIS GROUP (cac) is more like and more inline with the original wbcci....
http://www.geocities.com/classicCaravanClub/
caravaning is their focus.
low cost, minimum regimentation, only essential rules,
leadership focused on the goal....caravaning...
this group welcomed me and was able to define their prime directive...quickly.
oh and they changed their name to 'classics airstream club' quickly and easily!

i'm not a caravan person but given the right trip, time and fun things2do...i'd consider going on one...

cheers
2air'

[InsideOut]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

-gotta have a 25yr old unit for one and a classic trailer/moho (air or arg) for the other, from any year.....
-that's not bad, just a qualifying issue to become a member of these intra clubs...

Just a slight clarification...your trailer DOES NOT have to be 25 years or older to associate with the VAC.

Originally Posted by VAC website

There are two levels of WBCCI / VAC Membership:

Member- (WBCCI) Wally Byam Caravan Club International Member that owns
a Recreational Vehicle Manufactured by Airstream that is 25 or more years old.

Associate - (WBCCI) Wally Byam Caravan Club International Member that owns
a Recreational Vehicle Manufactured by Airstream that is 24 or less years old.

VAC Website - Membership

Shari

[C Johnson]

Originally Posted by Stefrobrts

As we discovered at the last forum rally, every rally is a maintenance rally - when you're vintage

Amen to that as I was mopping up 22 gals of water off my floor at 12:30 am

[AZstreamin]

I'm always learning here and love the passion that this group exudes.
First, Fred Coldwell's response was solid. I'm a fence sitter but that little speech has power to convince I appreciate the insight.

Second, Why would the VAC allow Airstreams less than 25 years old? Isn’t 25 years old the vintage qualification for most vehicles or collectables? That one seems odd to me. So my '05 would qualify for associate membership? ..Hmm.. If I still have it by the time it graduates to full membership, my 3 year old will have finished with her PhD.

After reading a lot about this WBCCI this week. I'm convinced it's like anything else in life…. What you put in, is what you get out.
If you want to help and teach the community how to rebuild their vintage Airstreams go for it… I want one too, just don't have the room and time right now, I would however show up for classes… If you want to fix the political problems... Go For It that is honorable job….. If you just want to camp and hang with friends… go for it…and send me directions.

[Mike Lewis]

There's a distinct difference in the pride one feels in showing up with a spiffy Vintage Airstream with a new modification versus what one would feel showing up with the newest Coach off the dealer's lot. Different,

Zep---Don't you think you might be a bit pretentious with that claim. I wouldn't for a moment think you would be anything but proud of a "Spiffy Vintage Airstream", especially if one had hours of labor invested,but to insinuate those who own new coaches are not proud of them is simply not true.-----pieman

[Alumaholic]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

Zep---Don't you think you might be a bit pretentious with that claim. I wouldn't for a moment think you would be anything but proud of a "Spiffy Vintage Airstream", especially if one had hours of labor invested,but to insinuate those who own new coaches are not proud of them is simply not true.-----pieman

Zep,
I think he's got you there.
Mike,
Zep isn't pretentious, just hyperfocused on being Vintage. If you ever get together, I think you'll find you have more in common than you might imagine. Peace, Brothers.

[InsideOut]

Originally Posted by AZstreamin

Second, Why would the VAC allow Airstreams less than 25 years old? Isn’t 25 years old the vintage qualification for most vehicles or collectables? That one seems odd to me. So my '05 would qualify for associate membership?

Yes, if you are also a member of the WBCCI you can be an associate member of the VAC. I guess the reasoning is that you may have a strong interest in the vintage trailers and for one reason or another not currently own one.

As an associate member, you receive the Vintage Advantage newsletter/magazine, are able to attend the VAC Rallies, Open Houses, Happy Hours (which really are happy!) and participate as much or as liitle as you want. You can not vote on issues that effect the IntraClub, hold an office or participate in the Concours d'Elegance. You might also get really bored with all the:

• polishing demos
• checking VIN numbers
• comparing different models
• comparing "the same" models
• counting panels
• scouring ebay for that elusive part
• laying on your back looking under someone's trailers checking out their banana wraps
• swap meets & flea markets
• collecting flamingos & awning lights
• peeking over fences and behind barns at "buried treasures"
• vintage trailer talk as VAC'rs don't talk about much else!

Who knows, as an associate member you might also find yourself longing to "upgrade" your membership...and go vintage all the way!

There is a VAC representative in every Region...some are more active with rally planning than others, if your Region doesn't have a VAC Rally on the calendar call 'em up and ask them why not!

Shari

[Alumaholic]

Originally Posted by InsideOut

Who knows, as an associate member you might also find yourself longing to "upgrade" your membership...and go vintage all the way!

Shari

The lady is right, it happened to me!

[AZstreamin]

Originally Posted by InsideOut

• polishing demos
• checking VIN numbers
• comparing different models
• comparing "the same" models
• counting panels
• scouring ebay for that elusive part
• laying on your back looking under someone's trailers checking out their banana wraps
• swap meets & flea markets
• collecting flamingos & awning lights
• peeking over fences and behind barns at "buried treasures"
• vintage trailer talk (VAC'rs don't talk about much else!

Who knows, as an associate member you might also find yourself longing to "upgrade" your membership...and go vintage all the way!

Shari

Hmmm that's funny...thing is I already do 3/4 of those things already!... No doubt I will own a second AS in due time... I've got my eyes open the right one finds you. It's kind of like spouse.