25' or 28' for new Intl

[gecko]

I think our co-forum people have it well covered. First, if you're carrying a Harley, you definitely need a beefier TV. I'm a fan of lightweight, but you'll need to look very carefully at the F-150's payload. I'm sure it will tow everything just fine.

We went through the same thing in 2009 and bought the International 28' Ocean Breeze. We just love the extra natural light--there can't be too much for us. And because weight is such an issue, less storage space has actually forced us to think a lot more about what we're carrying and where we're storing it! The only thing that I miss, and would consider the 27' for, is the pantry/microwave--AND the fact that they're right over the axles. We had to go for the upgraded oven/microwave, and we also have less wardrobe storage mid-ships with the 28 as compared to the 27 (the 27 is actually a bit larger than the 28' (!).

We loved the 25, but wisely for us, figured that the "boat" we were buying was going to tight enough at any size, and there wasn't enough weight savings to justify the smaller coach. The separate dining and couch areas take up a lot of space, but it really is nicer to be able to have two separated seating areas when there are lots of visitors on board. Since there's been so much talking about audio visual viewing (of which we do little when on the road,) we love the setup in the 28'--with just the one monitor, it can swing to block the hall opening so we can watch from the bed (tip--my supersmart wife figured out that the back cushion from the front couch fits perfectly between the wardrobes either side of the bed to make a great lounging area!) or swing the other way where we make up the front couch into a super lounge, and take full advantage of all the speakers.

Friends of ours just bought their first Airstream, having full timed for years in everything from a lightweight 24 foot box trailer up through an over-the-top diesel pusher. They went for the 30' and are very happy on their maiden voyage this week.

The 28 is large when you need to fit into small spaces. But we have always managed to make it work, so I really don't think that's going to be an issue for you. We've found the length of the TV in mini-malls to be a lot more challenging!

Have fun with your new toys!

[johncook]

I have a 27FB and pull with a 2500 HD and a 6.2 v8 works perfect for us. We also have 650lbs in the truck bed. I think you should consider the larger coach and truck. There are often situations where a lighter truck would put the coach in charge. That is the last thing you want. As a tow, vehicle I think you better off with the 2500 HD.

[dkottum]

A light duty truck equipped with a Propride or Hensley hitch will be absolutely stable in all towing conditions, and will handle emergency lane changes better than its heavy duty counterpart.

But with a Harley in the bed plus the usual full-time living needs the heavy duty truck will handle the payload and if diesel climb hill faster and have more engine barking coming down, it's only advantages.

Which in your case might be the ticket.

[switz]

Our Ram 2500HD with Cummins engine has been greatly modified with camper shell, full Kelderman level ride air suspension, and exchanged fuel tank to 56 gallon capacity. Connected to our 31' Classic trailer with a 1,350 pound tongue weight and two generators, fuel, grill, propane, tools etc, the truck's axles were supporting about 10,500 pounds of the 11,510 pound rating. We have the 6' bed. There was no free space for a motorcycle.

One needs one of those Rampage loading ramps for the motorcycle and that weighed several hundred pounds and consumed most of the floor space in the GMC diesel with short bed and tailgate down as the ramp system was 8' long.

I think a one ton dually long bed would be necessary for stability for the ramp and 800 to 900 pound Harley on board raising the truck's center of gravity and having the 8' bed for the ramp and bike.

The OP needs to do a lot of pencil pushing on real numbers, not wishful thinking, to determine what will work. Note that if a custom setup truck is ordered with a specified load capacity in the contract and it comes in with lower payload numbers due to salesman incompetance, the purchaser can refuse the truck for not meeting the ordered specs. Very important to have the net payload number explicitly listed and initialled by both purchaserand seller.

We started with a 25FB International Serenity with queen bed and disliked that arrangement. We had another couple stay with us on a camp out weekend and it was too tight.

We ordered a 27FB Classic and realized the issues we had with the dinette area were the same as the floor plan was exactly the same size and layout as the 25FB for about 8' of the length. So we changed the order to our 31' Classic model 30 and are very happy with that decision.

[Tmdumbauld]

Learning a lot here-thanks to all. Was wondering what was with the seat in the shower.

Anybody know if you can get the love seat with power recliners offered for the classic installed by factory in a 28 Intl?

[WindyJim]

The tow vehicle is critical. If you have a 1/2 ton, then I don't recommend the 27 or 28 foot Airstream. It isn't just the initial weight of the trailer, etc. it is in part, you can load a lot more into a 27 or 28 ft trailer and thus substantially increase the loading.

I started out with a 17' Airstream so only got a 1/2 ton pickup. Later I got a 27' (actually 27' 11") and continued to pull it with the same 1/2 ton pickup. Without going into all the specifics, I wound up rolling the 27' Airstream a couple years later. I did not let the wife drive the truck pulling the 27 footer because I didn't feel it was safe for her to pull (even though it had all the right equipment, anti-sway, load levelers, etc.)

I subsequently purchased a 25' Airstream (with a different anti-sway system).

When it came time to replace tires on the truck I made what I consider to be a MONUMENTAL single improvement. I had been using the largest Michelin tires that would work for my 2005 Silverado. When I went to replace them I found that the 3/4 ton & 1-ton trucks use a different tire. Whereas the tires recommended for 1/2 ton trucks inflate at something like 44 psi maximum (don't remember exactly), the tires for the 3/4 & 1-ton pickups inflate to 80 psi maximum. I installed the higher pressure "Michelin LTX M/S 2" tires and could not believe the difference in towing. I believe that these tires may have made the difference in rolling or not rolling my previous 27' Airstream. Everybody you ask gives you different recommendations on inflation pressures. I use the truck only when towing, so I settled in on 70 psi in the front, 75 psi in the rear, and 40 psi in the spare (obviously I didn't replace the spare).

I would still recommend a 3/4 ton truck if you go to the 27' (28') route, but if you are going to pull it with a 1/2 ton I definitely recommend you switch to higher pressure tires. They are costly (I think I paid about $1,300 for four tires), but they make a tremendous difference in towing safety.

[ZBoater]

I understand the concerns, but it really isn't necessary to rule out 27 or 30' Airstreams if you have a 1/2 ton truck. They can be towed, and towed well, and safely. Yes, there might be a bit more weight management considerations, and perhaps a WD hitch, but to rule those sizes out because you have a 1/2 ton is not necessary.

[dkottum]

Yes, I would agree towing with stiffer sidewall tires improves towing stability on any vehicle. We put XL tires on our previous Tundra and the truck was immediately and noticeably more stable when towing.

[RamblinManGa]

Hi from AZ. . . I was quite happy with my '05 Safari 25LS, until She found a '10 FC 28. The dinette & a shower made her VERY happy. We are towing it with an EcoBoost F140 FX4. . .regards, Craig

[RamblinManGa]

p.s from AZ. . . that's a shower you can actually fit in ! ! regards, Craig

[switz]

The seat in the shower was created because the shower is over the wheel well and the seat is above the tire. In models with the seat the full width of the shower, the shower is completely above the wheel well.

[Tmdumbauld]

Aha-Tire under the seat takes more sense than plumbing!

[1Boyscout]

We have been Rving since 1971. But, just bought our 1st Airstream. We have had 4 TTs. Sold our 34' 2012 Eagle with 2 slides. Purchased a 28 INTL Serenity, and an equalizer hitch. I can't believe the difference in towing. I have a 1500HD 4DR Silverado. It is like towing a boat not a TT. PS: Don't miss the stairs.

[Lara Me]

TM, I tow a 28 and regularly haul one or two bikes in the back, ranging from a pair of 300lb dirt bikes to a 700lb sport touring bike. The 28 is fine, but know the lounge cushions need to be upgraded (we added firmer foam at a cost of $1k) for lengthy lounging. If just the two of you, highly recommend you consider the reclining chair option, which we will upgrade to when our kids are past camping age.

I don't think the F150 has sufficient payload and power to haul the Harley and handle you, your passenger, your bikes and gear and the hitch weight of any of those trailers you are eyeing. Those considerations pushed me easily to a 3/4 ton diesel. I've never regretted the decision, or the extra cost.

My advice: start with trailer you like best, then find the tow rig that will handle all the toys. Ignore those folks who tell you an F150 will do fine - they likely have not towed a 28" trailer loaded with a heavy bike and gear, which is what you are facing. You will need a long bed, as you won't be able to leave the tailgate of your short bed down when towing the trailer, as the bed will contact the propane tanks on the trailer.

BTW, I use Condor chocks mounted to the bed to easily load and tie down the bikes, beats using tie downs on the handlebars and really secures the bikes when towing. I use a Big Boy II ramp, a 9" folding model, to load the bikes (see discountramps.com). The dirt bikes I can load solo, but the heavy bikes need two people, even with a wider ramp, unless you can load them with the truck backed up to a ramp or on an incline.

[Tmdumbauld]

Thank Lara and everyone. I'm convinced a 28' pulled by a 3/4 ton (long bed) is the way for us. (Then the fun debate of Ram vs Ford!). Last decision may be big gas V8 vs diesel. With gas prices lower the break even for a diesel is now well beyond 100,000 miles. Thinking the easing pulling AS and many intended cruising miles makes gas the better choice.

[paiceman]

Just to add my 2 cents. We have been camping since 1968 and in virtually every conceivable type of camping equipment, from canoe camping near the Artic Circle in Canada to a luxury motorhome. Also three ASs. Our favorite was and is the AS, now 30' as someone pointed out always go one larger. 28' is a great unit. As is the 3/4 Ton. We have had two, we have had Diesel and gas. Now run an F350 (you never need one this big for an AS) only because my wife refused to let me buy an F450. Having towed with both Diesel and Gas, I would go Diesel every time. You will get tons of input, but as you figured out the trailer I am sure the two of you can figure out the TV. Ford or Ram, not a question for me, it's Ford all the time every time. Love the 6.7 Diesel. One little point to consider is fuel tanks, the Ford Diesels only come with 26 gallon tanks, not an issue for us as we have to stop every two hours due to extremely bad back, but if I did not have to stop it would become irritating. We do get 13.7 MPG with the Diesel towing an average of 65 MPH.

Enjoy, my bet you will love the AS, hope the bike is a StreetGlide, my favorite of all 20 Harleys I've had.

Bud

[switz]

Diesel was $2.499 this week and premium was $2.899 at a local Shell gas station in a gas price war with Circle K across the street in Apache Junction, AZ. First time in a long time I have pumped 38 gallons of diesel fuel (tank holds 56 gallons) for under a Ben Franklin.

My initial cost of the new Classic Airstream trailer sets the tone for the variable operating expenses like maintenance, fuel and insurance. I knew it won't be cheap.

I had read more "Which truck?" threads than I can count over the last several years and expected 11 to 12 mpg towing with a diesel. I also had towed heavy cargo trailers in the mountains before and the strong engine braking of a diesel was important to me since our rig typically weighs over 19,000 pounds fully loaded for camping.

Our truck is rated for 20,000 pounds combination weight, so the brakes are sized accordingly to stop that weight. This is not the case for sedans and ½ ton pickups. If the trailer brakes fail in the mountains, my truck can stop the whole show going downhill.

For me, the reality is that stopping safely in any situation including trailer brake failure far outweighs how quickly or fast I can start and tow a trailer. We have the payload capability to take whatever we want in the bed of the truck plus a total of four people in the cab.

One usually does not take a .22 caliber rifle to hunt bear. We take the proper tool for the job.

The scales are the place to determine not only weight distribution settings, but can the tow vehicle handle the total loaded camping weight of the rig.

Push the pencil on the numbers before signing a check in ink.

[mojo]

I don't know where you are buying fuel, but when we were down in Apache Junction last week, gas was as low as $1.49 to $1.59 and diesel was $1.89.
Did they raise the price for Superbowl?

[Lara Me]

You midwest guys are killing me with your low diesel prices. We are about $2.59 but you have to look for that deal. Place around the corner wants $3.19.

The choice of a diesel is primarily about torque, not about fuel savings, though it will get much better gas mileage. As Switz notes, engine braking is another benefit. So is getting 400 miles or more per tank when towing, 500 when unloaded.

You can try to rationalize it but the simple math is you will be paying more for a diesel all the way around, both up front and maintaining it. It's not tons more, but you will get some back if you trade in, as diesels hold their value over gassers.

You won't regret it once you hit your first long mountain pass with a full load, purring along at the speed limit or higher. Diesels are untouchable towing rigs, so to me, the extra cost is worth it.

I have a RAM which I really like. The new ones have progressive rear coils instead of leaf springs, so a bit more comfy unloaded. The new Chevy's look nice. I wanted to like the Ford but the interior was dated compared to the others.

If you are in the PNW, check out Dave Smith Motors for a quote. They were four to five thousand less than the best local dealer, because they sell so much volume. I think they sell GM too. They have a hundred diesel trucks in inventory or more at any given time. It was an easy fly and drive for me, and the trip home was great to get past the 500 mile break in.

[switz]

The straight six Cummins in the Dodge Ram pickups is the smoothest running engine until one gets to a straight twelve cylinder. They are known to last a long time. I am biased as the turbo charger for the first generation 5.7L was originally designed by my Grandfather's company and made by our licensee in Huddersfield, England. Cummins later acquired Holset Engineering and now do their own turbo charger designs in house.

Ford has had a very checkered past with both the International diesel engines they modified and their own designs. The later Duramax engines have been fairly reliable.