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Old 03-12-2008, 07:22 PM   #1
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1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
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R&R Minuet belly pan

Well the time had come to start the belly pan R&R. In this case the second R is reinstall the original. The Minuet had set out in the north 40 for 4 years before I bought it and ground squirrels had gotten into the under side. The pan was in good condition except most of the rivets holding it to the frame had pulled through and it had one hole near the front. Saw little evidence of mice, the droppings were much too large. Must have been 40 lbs of droppings and pinion nut sells, in the front section above the hole. The rest of the under side was fairly clean, mostly road dust, a hornets nest and minor rodent evidence. First day, belly pan off, had to remove the axle to get the pan off. All of the fiberglass is now gone. I haven't decided to replace the fiberglass or just leave the space empty. This Minuet is one with the Aluminum composite floor, so it has some insulation from the composite floor. Thankfully the frame is in good condition.


Looking for recommendations, new fiberglass, rigid foam sheet, nothing, or ? I have followed the posts on bubble insulation and would use that if replacing the interior. Given that the floor is insulated with about 1 inch of polystyrene, I am not sure it needs more insulation. I will likely add a little inslulation below the plumbing.


Run for supplies in the AM and start the replacement part of the project. Need to be done by Sunday.
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:54 PM   #2
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Having never done that specific job, I don't know what I'm talkin' about.
But I have done a bit of construction.
It seems to me that rigid may be the easiest to work with in the sub floor area.
Let us know what you decide.
Dave
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:09 AM   #3
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OK, I decided to add 1 inch of Formular, pink rigid foam insulation to the underside. Ran parts in the AM, then started the underside prep and added some of the foam. Shot spray foam into all of the oversize openings I could find on the underside, around pluming and wiring. One day behind then it snowed last night and is still snowing. Working in the driveway and don't want to be working in the snow. Two days behind and counting. Oh well the studio needed cleaning anyway. This will be the big project for this year, don't want to have all your fun at once. I am really glad the Minuet was usable as is and just needed to be caught back up on the deferred maintenance.
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:53 PM   #4
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Made up for the snow day. My son came over to help with the project. With his help we got the frame scraped and painted, all the insulation in, the major piece of the pan and the axle back in place. Also one of the corners is now done. Ethan did most of the work and his help was a great blessing. Still hope to get the rest of the pan replaced tomorrow. I was going to take a photo before starting the replace of the pan but forgot in the rush to get as much done as possible today. I am still amazed at the progress made in one day.
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Old 03-15-2008, 11:30 PM   #5
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One question: How did you attache the 1" rigid to the underside?
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Old 03-16-2008, 01:29 AM   #6
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Clarification

Royce,

"All of the fiberglass is now gone". Did you find fiberglass and remove it? Or did you not find fiberglass and assumed the PO removed it? I have a '77 6 metre and have found no evidence of fiberglass insulation anywhere - even though I have not dropped the entire belly pan. I was under the impression the only insulation was in the styrofoam sandwich floor??? Based on what I see here on the forums - one of the biggest culprits for frame rot is the ability of fiberglass insulation to hold moisture. What was the condition of your frame? You mentioned that you "scraped and painted" it...George
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bedfords
One question: How did you attache the 1" rigid to the underside?
I used a combination of foam panel adhesive in large dots directly to the underside of the floor, foam blocks cut to fit as braces on the frame ledges and spray foam in corners and other strategic spots. The brace blocks were also stabilized with the panel adhesive.
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Old 03-16-2008, 08:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgezink
Royce,

"All of the fiberglass is now gone". Did you find fiberglass and remove it? Or did you not find fiberglass and assumed the PO removed it? I have a '77 6 metre and have found no evidence of fiberglass insulation anywhere - even though I have not dropped the entire belly pan. I was under the impression the only insulation was in the styrofoam sandwich floor??? Based on what I see here on the forums - one of the biggest culprits for frame rot is the ability of fiberglass insulation to hold moisture. What was the condition of your frame? You mentioned that you "scraped and painted" it...George

George,


When I started the project the fiberglass was still there, combined with the ground squirrel droppings and pinion nut hulls. Ugh. I removed the fiberglass mostly to avoid the frame rot you are referring to . It is easy to keep moisture in and difficult to keep it out. The frame was in remarkable condition, all things considered and all welds were still tight. The surface rust present was due to the fiberglass keeping dampness in. I held the foam insulation away from the frame about 1/4 to make sure it can dry out in the future. It was a difficult decision to put any insulation in at all given the composite floor being insulated. In the end the fact that the pan was off and I had the chance to place insulation won out. I think the primary reason the frame was in such good condition is the Minuet lived its life right here in Colorado. High plains desert you know.
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Old 03-16-2008, 10:26 AM   #9
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It sounds like you are gettimg it done. I'm going to restart working on my GT next weekend, rain or snow
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Old 03-16-2008, 10:43 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood
It sounds like you are gettimg it done. I'm going to restart working on my GT next weekend, rain or snow
That we are! It would be done by now if the weather had cooperated. Another snow day today.



Good luck with the GT.

Here would be a good place to add Thanks to Aerowood, Doorgunner, and Zep. Your encouragement and guidance has made the process much easier. Thank you.
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:46 PM   #11
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Project complete

The belly pan R&R is complete. Ethan took pity on the old man and came over to help again today. Final tally, one day alone and two days with Ethan's help. We ran out of the large head rivets and I will need to get about 6 more tomorrow. Materials for the project, 3 sheets of 1" rigid foam insulation "formular", two tubes of foam board adhesive, 2 large cans of spray foam, 1 quart direct to metal black paint, 106 3/16" X 3/8" large head rivets, about 100 1/8" x 1/8", and 30 1/8" X 1/4" rivets. Had access to 20 each 1/8, 5/32, and 3/16 Clecos, Could have used more of the 3/16 Clecos but got by just fine. Ethan worked one year for one of the best armorers in the country, building Armor for the SCA events so he is pretty good at moving metal around and he did most of the straightening.
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