Towing myths

[Airhouse]

Andy & Roger; Thanks to both of you guys, I'm still wondering witch bars, 1000 or 600 to use. Roger--do you get any flex with your 1000# bars pulling the 34ft limited? I want to believe Andy has the right idea, but the 600#s sure do look light. My 3/4 ford van is a R/V van and sprung heavy due it's equipment inside. I've pulled a 29ft a/s with it and have enough motor, 5.4, and 373 gears. Just want to get the hitch system RIGHT !!!! Woooo is me. What to do. Anyway thanks for this forum. lots of info to help us newbee get into the data and try to become better R/Vers. Thanks Bud

[centennialman]

Andy.......thanks, Very Much for answering my question. I do appreciate everything you do for all of us here on the forums!

Steve

[Mikethefixit]

Airhouse
I had a hitch that came with my AS, it was a Reese with 1000 lb bars. As you can see (lower left) I have a heavy truck. When the wife and I brought the AS home we didn't have our hitch. I have towed I think about every size trailer for 12 ft to 53ft and 45 yrs over the road in a big rig. I wasn't scared of NUFFIN. But the rebound of those 1000 lb bars liked too wrecked us. Whats worse I hadnt payed for it(the AS). PO insisted we take it home. That was the last trip for the 1000's. My hitch of choise is an old Reese Straightline,with 600 lb bars and 6 links in the chains under stress.
We get a Lincoln ride out of that big O-4door crewcab and we enjoy the ride. I have experimented with different chain settings but always come back to the 6 links under stress . I have a radio cabinet inside the door that I leave cd's on top of and in 400 miles they are still there.
Oh bye the way I sold the hitch with the 1000 lbs bars, the guys says its perfect on a box-car trailer.
Good luck with your search.
Roger

[Airhouse]

Mikethefixit Thanks Roger, for your input. It is now the final word reguired to make a believer in that what Andy,the Guru, has been trying to drum into us that you don't need to make an solid IRON-BAR connection between TT & TV. I got it!!! It's got to flex so you can control it, not have it control you. I'm convinced that with my stiff sprung TV with a long wheelbase the 600#s will work great. Glad I went ahead and bought them to use as it will make that 2000 mile trip better and safer. Again I must thank You, Andy, and all the other inputs that make this Forums a great place to find info needed to share our experiences. It's the best.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Airhouse

Mikethefixit Thanks Roger, for your input. It is now the final word reguired to make a believer in that what Andy,the Guru, has been trying to drum into us that you don't need to make an solid IRON-BAR connection between TT & TV. I got it!!! It's got to flex so you can control it, not have it control you. I'm convinced that with my stiff sprung TV with a long wheelbase the 600#s will work great. Glad I went ahead and bought them to use as it will make that 2000 mile trip better and safer. Again I must thank You, Andy, and all the other inputs that make this Forums a great place to find info needed to share our experiences. It's the best.

When you return from your trip, make a post here and let others know the results you experienced.

Andy

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Now how in the world, could I know that you removed the overload springs.
Andy

I didn't get decent weight transfer on mine for what I think are several reasons, the thick overload springs on my 3/4T Dodge among them. My thought has been to remove that spring from the pack (and maybe a spacer or two), re-align the front end and add a Timbren Aeon hollow rubber overload spring (replaces the bump stop) for those times I am not towing a travel trailer and need the OEM capacity.

That, along with an aftermarket anti-roll bar (and maybe fabbing a panhard rod) would make for a better-riding, more stable rear platform that would allow proper weight transfer.

Experimentation can get addictive . . like MarkDoane talking about using panhard rods on a beam axled trailer, hmmmmm.

[Ganaraska]

Originally Posted by REDNAX

I didn't get decent weight transfer on mine for what I think are several reasons, the thick overload springs on my 3/4T Dodge among them. My thought has been to remove that spring from the pack (and maybe a spacer or two), re-align the front end and add a Timbren Aeon hollow rubber overload spring (replaces the bump stop) for those times I am not towing a travel trailer and need the OEM capacity.

That, along with an aftermarket anti-roll bar (and maybe fabbing a panhard rod) would make for a better-riding, more stable rear platform that would allow proper weight transfer.

Experimentation can get addictive . . like MarkDoane talking about using panhard rods on a beam axled trailer, hmmmmm.

You might consult a local spring shop. Tell them your springs are too stiff and what you want to accomplish. They have probably run into this problem before and know just how to solve it.

[grtwhthuntr]

Andy, You may not be getting quite the response you expected but I for one am glad as you have gotten folks to at least to look and try to understand their setup. Thank-you.

Rednax,
Your trailer should not have enough hitch weight to engage your overload spring unless your packing the bed w/ alot of stuff. I have timbrens installed on my 2500 dodge for another appl. besides the A/S. They work but once your riding on them, it is like riding on the bump stops. They are awfully stiff. The company is however, very nice and accommadating to work with.

[Cracker]

I switched the rear spring pack on my dually to an alternate softer pack offered by GM. I believe that the alternate pack was commonly used on ambulance setups and, as such, it reduces the rear axle load-carrying capability of the dually by about 2000 lbs. When hitching a long-bed, crew-cab dually you get very little "unloading" of the front axle. I've reported my scale weights before, but suffice it to say the front axle and rear axle weights for the rig are very close when hitched. Truth is, with 4WD, and the Duramax/Allison combo, the front axle could use a little "unloading!" Afterwards, the ride was softened considerably but I was still using 1,000 lb Husky bars - with a hitch weight of 940 lbs. Note that this is for the 2000 30' Excella herein. As others have pointed out, the dually can "dead load" carry 1,000 lbs. Accordingly, I stressed the bars very lightly with no noticeable bending. After reading and studying some earlier threads (---and heavily based on Andy's suggestions) I decided to switch to the 600 lb bars and put them to work with a proper bend when hitched up. The improvement in ride was immediately noticeable! As for sway control, the rock solid handling of the long wheelbase chassis with dual wheels is similar to what I would expect if the rig was riding on rails! I do not use any form of sway control.

I just made another 2,200 mile delivery tow for my son with a very heavy 18' box trailer. The tongue weight was 1,000 lbs and the dual axle weight for the trailer was 7,000 lbs. I once again used the 1,000 lb bars - this time with little concern about overstressing the trailer - but with due respect for its' 10' high "billboard" sides and the desire to keep every bit of weight I could on the front axle of the truck. It rained for over 1,000 miles - but I never experience any handling problems in spite of heavy truck traffic.

[MTStream]

I would like to carry a boat on my TV 3/4 T Chev Duramax but need more clearance between the truck and the trailer. What about extensions for the hitch? Will it effect the trailering of my 25' Safari? Thanks, bill

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by MTStream

I would like to carry a boat on my TV 3/4 T Chev Duramax but need more clearance between the truck and the trailer. What about extensions for the hitch? Will it effect the trailering of my 25' Safari? Thanks, bill

Yes, the further back you put the pivot point, the more likely sway will occur. The Hensley Arrow creates the geometry of moving the pivot point forward nearer the rear axle. This is why the ideal tow vehicle has very little rear overhang. There is also a hitch system that actually mounts under the frame of the tow vehicle and swings on an arch beneath the rear of the tow vehicle. In essence, this configuration puts the apparent pivot just behind the rear axle. I can't remember the brand, but it is cost comparable to the Hensley and does require removal of the spare tire from beneath the rear of the tow vehicle. This is also why semi trucks don't need sway control. The closer the pivot is to the axle, the less likely sway can control.

[Jitano]

Thanks Andy for the article about Towing Myth's. I am very new at the towing game, having just purchased a 2008 27' Flying Cloud. Great shop guys where I got the rig set up with my TV and they took lots of time helping explain how to hook up but I had no idea of the things I must consider while towing and the maint. required. I am in love with the AS but also scared like crazy I will do something wrong that will either cost me bucks or maybe get me or someone else hurt. It is good to get a wake up with such an article.

[poems&songs]

Thanks so much. However, I'm very much a newbie--pre-newbie, actually. I'm looking at tow vehicles and Airstreams now. But given that I buy, say, a new F150 with the towing package, and an in-shape Bambi (nothing larger than 20') --around 2006 +, am I going to need to buy separate equipment for them to match up? People keep talking about "replacing" or "adding." Thanks

[StingrayL82]

Not to get off topic too much, but one of the earlier posts mentioned Caravanner Insurance and not knowing why they went out of business. My understanding is that a giant hail storm at one of the WBCCI Internationals, maybe the one in Bismarck in '93, took out a bunch of units, and the claims put Caravanner out of business. The story was relayed to me by a former Airstream dealer.

[bhayden]

Originally Posted by poems&songs

Thanks so much. However, I'm very much a newbie--pre-newbie, actually. I'm looking at tow vehicles and Airstreams now. But given that I buy, say, a new F150 with the towing package, and an in-shape Bambi (nothing larger than 20') --around 2006 +, am I going to need to buy separate equipment for them to match up? People keep talking about "replacing" or "adding." Thanks

A Bambi behind an F150 you won't even know that it's there. Put in a controller to take advantage of the brakes that are on the trailer for safety. I'd add a transmission cooler just for piece of mind and if your the sort that keeps a vehicle until the wheels fall of it'll pay for it's self. I'm a big believer in weight distribution hitches but honestly the torsion bars can be a hassle and I think you'd be fine without them. I'd use them but if it's a hassle I think you'd be just fine without.

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by Airhouse

Mikethefixit Thanks Roger, for your input. It is now the final word reguired to make a believer in that what Andy,the Guru, has been trying to drum into us that you don't need to make an solid IRON-BAR connection between TT & TV. I got it!!! It's got to flex so you can control it, not have it control you. I'm convinced that with my stiff sprung TV with a long wheelbase the 600#s will work great. Glad I went ahead and bought them to use as it will make that 2000 mile trip better and safer. Again I must thank You, Andy, and all the other inputs that make this Forums a great place to find info needed to share our experiences. It's the best.

Airhouse, after re-reading your posts this morning, I agree that with the heavy suspension under your van, that the 600 lb bars are probably better for your setup. I suspect that the heavier bars worked better with my Excursion because of the soft rear suspension it had. I had the bars flexed about 3" and it rode nicely. The heavier suspension on your van probably wouldn't allow that kind of ride with 1000 lb bars.

Roger

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by poems&songs

Thanks so much. However, I'm very much a newbie--pre-newbie, actually. I'm looking at tow vehicles and Airstreams now. But given that I buy, say, a new F150 with the towing package, and an in-shape Bambi (nothing larger than 20') --around 2006 +, am I going to need to buy separate equipment for them to match up? People keep talking about "replacing" or "adding." Thanks

The "dry" tongue weight of a 2006 19' Bambi is 490 lbs. Most class III receiver hitches are rated at 500 lbs dead weight and 1,000 lbs with weight distribution. 490lbs "dry" will put you well over 500 lbs with a battery and LP in the tanks, not to mention any load in the trailer.

You'll still need a weight distributing/sway control hitch. Trailer brakes and that hitch equipment is required by law in some states for trailers over 3,000 GVWR. I used WDH/sway control on a sub-3000 lb Burro 17 trailer with a Toyota compact truck. The difference in towing between that equipment (properly set up) and a bare-ball hitch towing was night and day.

Roger

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by bhayden

A Bambi behind an F150 you won't even know that it's there. Put in a controller to take advantage of the brakes that are on the trailer for safety. I'd add a transmission cooler just for piece of mind and if your the sort that keeps a vehicle until the wheels fall of it'll pay for it's self. I'm a big believer in weight distribution hitches but honestly the torsion bars can be a hassle and I think you'd be fine without them. I'd use them but if it's a hassle I think you'd be just fine without.

A late model Bambi weighs in the neighborhood of 3800 to 4500 pounds wet and loaded. I wouldn't pull that much trailer around the block with an F150 without a weight distribution hitch. Think of 380 to 500 pounds of tongue weight three foot behind the rear axle. Just don't think it's safe, IMHO.

[tinbender]

Originally Posted by SteveH

A late model Bambi weighs in the neighborhood of 3800 to 4500 pounds wet and loaded. I wouldn't pull that much trailer around the block with an F150 without a weight distribution hitch. Think of 380 to 500 pounds of tongue weight three foot behind the rear axle. Just don't think it's safe, IMHO.

Gotta go with Steve... I got a new half-ton Silverado this summer and wondered about what it would feel like pulling the Bambi not using the bars. Tried it for a short run, then hooked up the bars to compare.

That is the only time I will willingly tow it without the bars on. The rear of the truck did not squat without bars and moved the trailer like it wasn't there but there is a definite difference in the "feel". With bars, whole different world and just makes the combo feel like it was made together.

Truck has integrated brake controller, so far so good. Even though there was no problem stopping the trailer without bars on, one large part of the "good feel" of the bars being on was felt during stopping. To me, that is extremely important.

TB

[Sean Woodruff]

Inland Andy,

Maybe you could post a spreadsheet with the Airstream models along the x-axis and typical tow vehicles up the y-axis. In the appropriate cell you could post your recommended weight distribution rating for the dual-cam you recommend.

That would be very useful to everyone.