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06-08-2009, 09:13 AM
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#121
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2 Rivet Member
2024 25' Trade Wind
Safety Harbor
, Florida
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 53
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Steve,
We have and they just seem so darn cramped on the inside with very little storage. I'm thinking that we're going to have to take another trip to the dealer and look at the smaller units, however...It might be the safest combination based upon our TV.
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06-08-2009, 10:16 AM
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#122
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4 Rivet Member
2000 34' Limited
Somewhere in Western
, North Carolina
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dog_tired
Steve,
...We have an FJ Cruiser, SE TRD edition with a tow rating of 5000. We are looking at a 19' Bambi and I'm just curious: with that rig, what would be the best hitch and tow set up? I'd love to get a new TV and a 23 footer, but the FJ TRD (only 3200 made) is what we'll be using.
We have and they just seem so darn cramped on the inside with very little storage. I'm thinking that we're going to have to take another trip to the dealer and look at the smaller units, however...It might be the safest combination based upon our TV....
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I understand your desire to tow with your FJ but I would look very hard at the other specifications for your SUV. You only mentioned the tow capacity as 5,000 pounds but that is only one part of your equation.
I took a quick gander at the Toyota website and saw a couple things that you may also consider:
1. FJ GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) is 5570 pounds.
2. FJ Curb Weight is 4290 pounds
3. Different btwn 1. & 2. above is 1290 pounds. From this amount you must subtract fuel, passengers and cargo.
4. Fuel with 19 gallon tank is 123 pounds
5. I'll assume just two adults with baggage of 400 pounds.
6. Tongue weight without options and LP gas weight is 570 pounds
As you can see you'll have to be very careful not to exceed your FJ's GVWR.
Just something else to consider in your decisions.
__________________
Duane Pandorf
-----------------
Blog | Google+
Air# 16888 | 2000 34' Limited | 2008 Ford F250
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06-08-2009, 10:26 AM
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#123
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
1984 31' Airstream310
Ajo
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,649
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Trailer no no
I wonder how far this guy got?
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06-19-2009, 04:15 PM
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#124
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1 Rivet Member
1992 25' Excella
San Francisco
, California
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6
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Hello all,
Got back from my maiden voyage. I stopped at a les schwab and had the tires balanced, bearings and brakes checked. I was dragging my hitch on some steepish curb cuts. On the way back I stopped at the south Weed, CA exit and weighed at a CAT scale (thanks 2airishuman for the tip). I think my first weigh I must have not been on the scale right because it had my rear axle at 7000 pounds. I raised the reese bars (800#) one link and had 4120 pounds on both truck axles and 5340 on the trailer axles. After raising a link I didn't notice dragging except at a place where I saw grooves on the pavement where everybody else was. This was with a full fuel tank and half full grey and low black and water tanks. I got 10.2mpg in the hills and only 10.8 in the flats traveling around 60-65mph. I would think I should be getting better than that. Maybe a tune up. Will a K&N filter help? Here is a video of some weather we encountered.
YouTube - StarMarie1000's Channel
Thanks to everyone for the help.
Jeff
Edit: I just read http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...hts-52628.html . I did not weigh each AS axle separately, I only weighed the combined weight of both AS axles. Oh well, maybe next time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by intrepida
I can check the Reese tomorrow. I know I can adjust the front shocks, not sure about adjusting the back with out modification, I should have checked that before I posted. I know the previous owner had a 3/4 ton diesel pickup and probably towed 50,000 miles. My guess it is 800#. I have seen some trucks with something that looks like a couple of rubber donuts between the top of the leaf springs and the frame, maybe something like this: Air Lift LoadLifter 5000 Kits, AirLift Super Duty Air Springs, Air Suspension, Leaf Springs | Truckspring.com. I had no problem with sidesway, but my truck has always rode like a hardtail Harley.
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06-19-2009, 07:18 PM
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#125
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2 Rivet Member
1972 23' Safari
1976 24' Argosy 24
Bonita
, California
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 32
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Thanks Andy, I appreciate the info. Everytime I read folks that say you must have a 3/4 or 1 T to tow, I think back to the early photos and see all the Chevrolets from pre 1955 and their 6 cylinder motors. They were on long carvans, not driving 300 miles.
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06-19-2009, 09:01 PM
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#126
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Just an old timer...
2004 22' Interstate
Tipton
, Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonitafarms
Everytime I read folks that say you must have a 3/4 or 1 T to tow, I think back to the early photos and see all the Chevrolets from pre 1955 and their 6 cylinder motors. They were on long carvans, not driving 300 miles.
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We all like to enjoy the nostalgia, and that's why the '40s vintage Airstream pipe frame trailers are so popular. We also tend to forget all of the failures that those car/trailer combos had... broken frames, broken hitches, blowouts, engine failures... and that was with trailers that weighed a mere 2500 lbs. Today's trailers typically tip over twice that; even the 16-19' trailers are pushing 4k lbs. And today's tow vehicles are much more comfortable... and competent.
I've towed trailers with a 93" wheelbase Jeep on a bare ball in the '80s. I also towed a Scamp 13 with a Dodge Omni. I didn't know you weren't supposed to, and ignorance is bliss... and I did it for a long time and lived to tell about it. But I'm older and wiser now, and I'd never do it again, nor would I recommend it to anyone else.
Frankly, a 3/4 ton truck or van is the ideal tow vehicle for any of these trailers 25' or longer. Sorry you may think otherwise, but experience is a harsh teacher.
Roger
__________________
havin' to fix my broken Airstreams since 1987...
AIR 2053 Current: 2004 Airstream Interstate "B-Van" T1N DODGE Sprinter
Former Airstreams: 1953 Flying Cloud, 1957 Overlander, 1961 Bambi, 1970 Safari Special, 1978 Argosy Minuet, 1985 325 Moho, 1994 Limited 34' Two-door, 1994 B190 "B-Van"
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06-19-2009, 09:40 PM
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#127
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3 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Louisville
, United States
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 127
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Just bought a 94' Excella 1000 31' with a 2003 Chevy 2500HD to tow it. What's the best stabilizing hitch system to buy for this, please.
Thanks!
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06-20-2009, 12:48 AM
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#128
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSChanger
Just bought a 94' Excella 1000 31' with a 2003 Chevy 2500HD to tow it. What's the best stabilizing hitch system to buy for this, please.
Thanks!
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A Reese dual cam with 800# bars.
Andy
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06-20-2009, 07:35 AM
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#129
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Rivet Master
2016 23' International
Centennial
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,684
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Andy,
For my 66 Safari, are 500# bars ok?
Thanks!
__________________
Steve "Centennial Man"
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06-20-2009, 10:51 AM
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#130
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centennialman
Andy,
For my 66 Safari, are 500# bars ok?
Thanks!
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Torsion bars match the trailer to the tow vehicle.
What tow vehicle do you have?
Andy
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06-20-2009, 06:32 PM
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#131
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Rivet Master
2008 30' Classic S/O
Dearborn
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,403
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Andy, I’m having a hard time with your ‘torsion bar rating vs. tow vehicle suspension’ recommendations... that is, the heavier the suspension, the lighter the torsion bars. I put about 8,000 miles on my 2008 30’ S/O + 2005 Suburban 2500 using an Equal-I-zer 12,000/1,200 hitch-- which you would consider ‘over-hitched’. However, I was not able to get any appreciable weight transfer to the steer axle (best case was -200lbs from baseline). This created a *very* twitchy towing experience- ‘floating front end’ syndrome. Would not lighter torsion bars exacerbate this problem?
I eventually went to The Arrow 14,000/1,400 and have excellent weight distribution.
I think there is some merit, however, to punishing a trailer with a ‘cement truck’ suspension... I towed same trailer, for a bit, with a single rear wheel dodge CTD 3500. I think they offer a kidney belt option with this monster. The ride was bone jarring, and I noticed some unusual coincidences? Front sofa anchor bolts stripped out... fire extinguisher stripped out of wall... all drawers would be out of cabinets, scattered on floor.. sink covers on floor (none of this ever happened with ‘burb and Arrow)
IMHO, I think 85MH325 hit it on the head when he stated there are simply too many variables/combinations for a blanket “over-hitching” statement.
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06-20-2009, 10:29 PM
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#132
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finalcutjoe
Andy, I’m having a hard time with your ‘torsion bar rating vs. tow vehicle suspension’ recommendations... that is, the heavier the suspension, the lighter the torsion bars. I put about 8,000 miles on my 2008 30’ S/O + 2005 Suburban 2500 using an Equal-I-zer 12,000/1,200 hitch-- which you would consider ‘over-hitched’. However, I was not able to get any appreciable weight transfer to the steer axle (best case was -200lbs from baseline). This created a *very* twitchy towing experience- ‘floating front end’ syndrome. Would not lighter torsion bars exacerbate this problem?
I eventually went to The Arrow 14,000/1,400 and have excellent weight distribution.
I think there is some merit, however, to punishing a trailer with a ‘cement truck’ suspension... I towed same trailer, for a bit, with a single rear wheel dodge CTD 3500. I think they offer a kidney belt option with this monster. The ride was bone jarring, and I noticed some unusual coincidences? Front sofa anchor bolts stripped out... fire extinguisher stripped out of wall... all drawers would be out of cabinets, scattered on floor.. sink covers on floor (none of this ever happened with ‘burb and Arrow)
IMHO, I think 85MH325 hit it on the head when he stated there are simply too many variables/combinations for a blanket “over-hitching” statement.
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Until someone has taken the time and effort, as well as the expense, to offer a better "rule of thumb" than I have posted, then in all fairness, I must respectfully stay with my offers and suggestions.
As of this time, I am not aware of anyone offering a "better method," but several have offered "I am wrong" suggestions and statements.
It's all to easy to tell someone that what they have published is wrong, but the same people have not offered anything better.
I strive to be helpful, but if someone disagrees, so be it.
But again, I am "wide open" to a better rule of thumb, and not just an opinion.
Thanks to all that are pleased that have made the changes.
If someone chooses to submit what they have is great and why, then so be it, too.
Andy
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06-20-2009, 10:32 PM
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#133
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moderator
Commercial Member
2016 27' International
Currently Looking...
Wilton
, California
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,711
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Just got the official weigh in ...
I was on the road this week and decided it was time to pull into the CAT scales. Now this picture is not the most recent but it shows you the general setup. I have played with all the setting since then. The truck combination rides very soft and comfortable. The only time it gets a bit bouncy is on cement roads with dividers.
Here are the final weights loaded ie. Full propane, approx 30 gallons of water, empty waste tanks and provisions for 5 people.
Steer axle 3480lb
Drive axle 4560lb
Trailer axles 8000lb
Gross weight 16040lb
I have to confess that with the high tongue weight of my trailer it was necessary to go back to the 1000lb bars to get the weights correct. I did however remove the overload springs so it wouldnt beat up the trailer.
Vinnie
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06-20-2009, 10:44 PM
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#134
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlamica
I was on the road this week and decided it was time to pull into the CAT scales. Now this picture is not the most recent but it shows you the general setup. I have played with all the setting since then. The truck combination rides very soft and comfortable. The only time it gets a bit bouncy is on cement roads with dividers.
Here are the final weights loaded ie. Full propane, approx 30 gallons of water, empty waste tanks and provisions for 5 people.
Steer axle 3480lb
Drive axle 4560lb
Trailer axles 8000lb
Gross weight 16040lb
I have to confess that with the high tongue weight of my trailer it was necessary to go back to the 1000lb bars to get the weights correct. I did however remove the overload springs so it wouldnt beat up the trailer.
Vinnie
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Vinnie.
Your weights are close.
Total tow vehicle weight, from your numbers is 8040 pounds.
The rear axle weight should not be more than 10 percent greater of that weight greater than the front axle, or 804 pounds.
Your weights show 1080 difference.
Try moving a little more weight to the front axle.
Andy
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06-20-2009, 11:33 PM
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#135
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,367
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Confused or Conflict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
Vinnie.
Your weights are close.
Total tow vehicle weight, from your numbers is 8040 pounds.
The rear axle weight should not be more than 10 percent greater of that weight greater than the front axle, or 804 pounds.
Your weights show 1080 difference.
Try moving a little more weight to the front axle.
Andy
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Hi, Andy. On the heavier rated trucks [3/4 & 1 ton] you say to use lighter spring bars. [600 lbs, 800 lbs Etc] Vinnie has 1000 lb bars and you say he needs to transfer more weight to the front axle of his truck. So does he need 1200 lb bars to do this? I don't see how [example] a 600 lb spring bar can transfer any weight to the front axle of a one ton truck.
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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06-21-2009, 12:47 AM
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#136
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Rivet Master
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,177
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If I understand this correctly the weight of the spring bars is not what determines how much weight is transfered from the drive axle to the steering axle, it's how many chain links you pull up on your WD bars when you cinch them up.
The bars are supposed to flex to keep the trailer from getting beat to crap by the TV going over bumps etc. A lighter weight bar will provide a more forgiving ride to the trailer in relation to the heavy-duty truck suspension.
Do I have this right?
My Safari came to me with #1000 bars, and a crack above the curbside front jalousie window, missing rivets, loose upper cabinets, a misaligned door, etc.
I now know why.
Any one want to trade some used #1000 bars for some #600's?
Rich
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06-21-2009, 01:34 AM
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#137
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIKING
If I understand this correctly the weight of the spring bars is not what determines how much weight is transfered from the drive axle to the steering axle, it's how many chain links you pull up on your WD bars when you cinch them up.
Rich
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Hi, it is the leverage from the spring bars lifting from the pivot point [your hitch head] to push down on the front of the tow vehicle. You can only adjust or link up so much and if the bars are too weak or too flexible it won't be enough; Therefore you will need heavier rated spring bars to transfer the weight to the front. Then as per Andy you will be over hitched. So why have spring bars at all on 3/4 and 1 ton tow vehicles if you can't have them strong enough to transfer the weight to the front axle?
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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06-21-2009, 02:31 AM
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#138
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Rivet Master
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,177
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Okay then, If You have a tongue weight of, say #500 and your bars are rated at #600, I would guess that you could safely transfer half of the tongue weight to the front wheels (#250) which should level your vehicle.
With a heavier Or lighter TV you would still want to transfer only 1/2 of the tongue weight to the front wheels. Even on a heavy trailer you would have say #800 tongue weight, you would only transfer #400 to the front wheels. It seems that #600 bars would be sufficient for a wide range of combinations My #1000 bars would be required if I was Hauling a 28 to 34' trailer from what I gather here.
What would be the scenario where you couldn't level your TV?
Will #600 bars transfer #600 from the back wheels to the front, or half of that, or are they cut from a #600 chunk of steel, or was it 6:00 when they were painted? what does the rating really mean? They bend at #600?, they break at #600?
Curious
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06-21-2009, 06:23 AM
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#139
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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bar ratings
Hitch torsion bars transfer weight.
The idea is two fold.
1. Transfer the weight, by proper installation and adjustment.
2. Maintain a soft ride for the trailer.
Just because the bars are lighter, doesn't mean you still can't transfer adequate weight.
As an example, lets have 700 pounds tongue weight. Now lets install 1400 pound bars.
Obviously that is "over hitching" and will beat the trailer to death. Therefore, the rating of the bar "MUST" be reduced.
Reduced to what, "IS" the question.
The rating is reduced so that you can do both number 1 and 2 above, "IS" the correct answer.
Again, proper ratings, proper installation and proper adjusments are the keys.
You may have a low rating bar, that's correct, but if the ball mount is not tilted rearward adequately, you will never be able to properly adjust the bars.
Moving weight, is often ignored, by those who really are not sure of how to tell what is correct.
Typically, when I walk around at a rally, I observe at least 50 percent of the rigs, that definitely, are "improperly" set up.
Simply looking at the ball mount lack of tilt, tells it all.
Remember the 3 propers.
1. Proper rating, means adequate but not excessive.
2. Proper installation, includes ball mount tilt.
3. Proper adjustment, which forces the bars to move weight. Make them bend. That's what they are for.
Or, use R, I and A.
R= rating.
I= installation.
A= adjustment
Andy
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06-21-2009, 06:56 AM
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#140
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Rivet Master
2011 34' Classic
Westchester Cty.NY
, / Miami FL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,122
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as a newbie to weight distribution hitches it took a while for me to understand what the ball tilt has to do with anything. the answer to me was that the angle of the ball doesn't "do" anything. the ball tilt indicates the head angle which alters the angle that the bars start to transfer the weight up front. if the bars start tensioning too close to the trailer, they will run out of room to travel before being fully loaded.
i think the logic is that it is better to have a fully tensioned 600 lb. bar than a slightly tensioned 1000 lb. bar.
i think that's right. please tell me if it's not right.
__________________
Ricky
2012 F150 Super Crew 5-1/2' bed Ecoboost 4x4 3.73 elec. lock diff. Propride hitch
give life. kidney & pancreas transplant 9/9/06
Ingrid-my unofficial '"World's Oldest Streamer" 1909-2008 R.I.P.
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