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Old 08-24-2014, 09:01 PM   #85
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Glad you LOL. I talked a good bit to a new 28 owner camping in Santa Fe, NM last month. Did not really get much into his TV, but it was a new 150 Ford EB and he was very happy with performance. I know nothing about his weights, but he had come all the way from the Florida Keys and was carrying a bunch of stuff with him.
You are right about TX. I'm a little guy here. A 3500 dually is a Texas TV.


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Old 08-24-2014, 09:04 PM   #86
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While out there I also noted that there is (no) washers at all in the stinger pin. (the one I circles in a photo earlier) Not sure why but there is only the pin. Also noted that the adjuster bars that run from the Torsion cranks to the torsion bars have (three) adjustment holes. My hitch is hooked in the centre hole of the three adjustment holes.

Hi Doug

I would say if your hitch was on that angle with no washers then you are getting very little weight transfer which your numbers would show. Once you have the washers in place adjust your torsion bars so that the back of the truck is within 1.25" of its original ride height. The front of the truck should be at its original ride height or ideally 1/4" lower.

I think you will find the ride and handling better with these settings. Your hitch receiver is fine. Newer F150's are one of the few we do not need to reinforce.

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Old 08-24-2014, 09:10 PM   #87
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Thanks Howard:

I actually went down to the ford dealer today, but darn the F250 are sure big! It would be nice to try and make my F150 last a bit longer (only 1 year old) or maybe upgrade it with a different rear-end or something to try and help things out.

By the day, I see you hare a retired Pilot. If you don't mind me asking who did you fly for? We might know a few of the same people.

Cheers
Doug

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard L. View Post
Glad you LOL. I talked a good bit to a new 28 owner camping in Santa Fe, NM last month. Did not really get much into his TV, but it was a new 150 Ford EB and he was very happy with performance. I know nothing about his weights, but he had come all the way from the Florida Keys and was carrying a bunch of stuff with him.
You are right about TX. I'm a little guy here. A 3500 dually is a Texas TV.


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Old 08-24-2014, 09:14 PM   #88
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Thanks for this Andrew - I will add a couple washers in and adjust things in the morning. With luck it will help things out

Thanks again for all your help

Cheers
Doug




Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew T View Post
While out there I also noted that there is (no) washers at all in the stinger pin. (the one I circles in a photo earlier) Not sure why but there is only the pin. Also noted that the adjuster bars that run from the Torsion cranks to the torsion bars have (three) adjustment holes. My hitch is hooked in the centre hole of the three adjustment holes.

Hi Doug

I would say if your hitch was on that angle with no washers then you are getting very little weight transfer which your numbers would show. Once you have the washers in place adjust your torsion bars so that the back of the truck is within 1.25" of its original ride height. The front of the truck should be at its original ride height or ideally 1/4" lower.

I think you will find the ride and handling better with these settings. Your hitch receiver is fine. Newer F150's are one of the few we do not need to reinforce.

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Old 08-24-2014, 09:41 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Arcticfox View Post
---I will add a couple washers in and adjust things in the morning. With luck it will help things out---
Doug, there are differing opinions as to how a WDH should be adjusted.
The following provides an explanation for changes which have been made by some TV and WDH manufacturers during the past four years:

Since 2010, Ford has specified that their F-series trucks should have the WDH adjusted to eliminate approximately 50% of the front end rise due to tongue weight. That corresponds to restoring approximately 50% of the load which was removed from the front axle.
When the WDH is properly adjusted, the front might be up about a half inch and the rear might be down 1-1.5" -- depending on tongue weight.

I think the reason Ford, Chevrolet, Toyota, Equal-i-zer, Reese and others have changed their weight distribution specifications is pretty well summed up in this Letter to Editor by Richard H Klein, P E printed in TRAILER BODY BUILDERS Magazine. The comment which specifically addresses front axle load is:

QUOTE
[blue]2. The statement “too much tongue weight can force the truck down in the back, causing the front wheels to lift to the point where steering response and braking can be severely decreased” is not the real issue with heavy tongue weights. The real problem is that the tow vehicle's yaw stability, as measured by “understeer gradient”, is severely decreased. This increases the propensity of the tow vehicle to jackknife in turning maneuvers. Specifically, recent full scale testing conducted by the SAE Tow Vehicle Trailer Rating Committee (and now published in SAE J2807), determined that the use of weight distributing hitch torque should be minimized. In fact they recommend that the Front Axle Load Restoration (FALR) not exceed 100% (100% means that the front axle weight is brought back, via weight distribution, to a weight equal to its “no trailer” condition).[/blue]
UNQUOTE

A related explanation from a representative of the company which manufactures the Equal-i-zer hitch was first posted here. It says:

QUOTE
[blue]In the past we had suggested that you should see a small drop on the front suspension. We are always trying to improve things here at Progress – our motto is “Safe and Happy Customers,” and so we are always reviewing our instructions and installation process. Recently, as part of this constant effort our engineers looked more deeply into this aspect of installation. We had always felt that a small drop was a sign that the trailer’s weight was being transferred to the front axle, and that this was essentially a good thing.

As our engineers reviewed the instructions for the last round of renewal of our instructions, the{y} found research results that contradicted our prior thinking. There has been a substantial amount of testing conducted by experts from SAE and the RV Industry Association to find out what will produce the best stability when towing. This towing suggests that you want your front axle’s compression to be close to, but not lower than your free-standing height.[/blue] (Underline added for emphasis.)
UNQUOTE

Ford says the Front Axle Load Restoration should be approximately 50%.

Chevrolet/GMC says the FALR should be 100%, 50% or 0% depending on TV model and TT weight.

Reese now includes the following in some of their WDH installation instructions:
[blue]8. A new term in the industry is (“FALR” – Front Axle Load Return).
100% FALR Means the front fender is returned to the preload position.
That is our recommendation for best performance.[/blue]

Equal-i-zer says the Front Axle Load Restoration should be between 50% and 100%.

Equal-i-zer's revised instructions specifically state:
[blue]Good adjustment:
You have most likely achieved good weight distribution adjustment if your measurements show the following with the trailer coupled and the weight distribution engaged:
1. From the coupled without weight distribution measurement, the front wheel well measurement is at least halfway back to the original uncoupled measurement. See line C on Front Wheel Well Measure Chart.
2. The rear wheel well measurement is somewhere between the uncoupled height, and the coupled with no weight distribution height. It should NEVER be higher than the uncoupled height. See line C on Rear Wheel Well Measure Chart. See Figure 19.[/blue]

Adding more load to the front axle might make the ride feel better.
In the words of Richard Klein, it also might "increase the propensity of the tow vehicle to jackknife in turning maneuvers".

Just for your consideration --

Ron
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Old 08-24-2014, 10:00 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcticfox View Post
Hi Doug:

Are you talking about the washers that are located here?



and your thinking Andrew is recommending I add (2) washers?

Thanks

Doug
Doug, it looks to me like you are missing a bolt in the lower drop bar hole. Also the top and lower bolts should have washers on them. I don't think you can get much weight transfer without the lower bolt.

Check your installation manual or images online.
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Old 08-24-2014, 10:20 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Doug, it looks to me like you are missing a bolt in the lower drop bar hole. Also the top and lower bolts should have washers on them. I don't think you can get much weight transfer without the lower bolt.

Check your installation manual or images online.
Hi Doug:

The image I posted earlier is just one I found on the net as I had not been out to the shop to photograph mine. So as an update; here is a picture of my actually hitch. I have a total of (3) bolt in mine including the one on the bottom. I'm not sure why the installer put 3 but they did. Hope thats not hurting anything.

As for the washers your talking about - I have marked on the blow-up in the image of the washers I'm talking about as I think they go on that little pin? Is that what your meaning?
Thanks

Doug

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Old 08-24-2014, 10:26 PM   #92
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Okay, that photo was not yours, someone else is missing a bolt and has their tilt maxed out.

On your drop bar you probably need 2 or 3 washers to get the w.d. bars tilted down low enough for weight transfer, but one can only estimate.
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Old 08-24-2014, 10:39 PM   #93
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TKS Doug.....
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Old 08-25-2014, 07:24 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
Doug, there are differing opinions as to how a WDH should be adjusted.
The following provides an explanation for changes which have been made by some TV and WDH manufacturers during the past four years:

Since 2010, Ford has specified that their F-series trucks should have the WDH adjusted to eliminate approximately 50% of the front end rise due to tongue weight. That corresponds to restoring approximately 50% of the load which was removed from the front axle.
When the WDH is properly adjusted, the front might be up about a half inch and the rear might be down 1-1.5" -- depending on tongue weight.

I think the reason Ford, Chevrolet, Toyota, Equal-i-zer, Reese and others have changed their weight distribution specifications is pretty well summed up in this Letter to Editor by Richard H Klein, P E printed in TRAILER BODY BUILDERS Magazine. The comment which specifically addresses front axle load is:

QUOTE
[blue]2. The statement “too much tongue weight can force the truck down in the back, causing the front wheels to lift to the point where steering response and braking can be severely decreased” is not the real issue with heavy tongue weights. The real problem is that the tow vehicle's yaw stability, as measured by “understeer gradient”, is severely decreased. This increases the propensity of the tow vehicle to jackknife in turning maneuvers. Specifically, recent full scale testing conducted by the SAE Tow Vehicle Trailer Rating Committee (and now published in SAE J2807), determined that the use of weight distributing hitch torque should be minimized. In fact they recommend that the Front Axle Load Restoration (FALR) not exceed 100% (100% means that the front axle weight is brought back, via weight distribution, to a weight equal to its “no trailer” condition).[/blue]
UNQUOTE

A related explanation from a representative of the company which manufactures the Equal-i-zer hitch was first posted here. It says:

QUOTE
[blue]In the past we had suggested that you should see a small drop on the front suspension. We are always trying to improve things here at Progress – our motto is “Safe and Happy Customers,” and so we are always reviewing our instructions and installation process. Recently, as part of this constant effort our engineers looked more deeply into this aspect of installation. We had always felt that a small drop was a sign that the trailer’s weight was being transferred to the front axle, and that this was essentially a good thing.

As our engineers reviewed the instructions for the last round of renewal of our instructions, the{y} found research results that contradicted our prior thinking. There has been a substantial amount of testing conducted by experts from SAE and the RV Industry Association to find out what will produce the best stability when towing. This towing suggests that you want your front axle’s compression to be close to, but not lower than your free-standing height.[/blue] (Underline added for emphasis.)
UNQUOTE

Ford says the Front Axle Load Restoration should be approximately 50%.

Chevrolet/GMC says the FALR should be 100%, 50% or 0% depending on TV model and TT weight.

Reese now includes the following in some of their WDH installation instructions:
[blue]8. A new term in the industry is (“FALR” – Front Axle Load Return).
100% FALR Means the front fender is returned to the preload position.
That is our recommendation for best performance.[/blue]

Equal-i-zer says the Front Axle Load Restoration should be between 50% and 100%.

Equal-i-zer's revised instructions specifically state:
[blue]Good adjustment:
You have most likely achieved good weight distribution adjustment if your measurements show the following with the trailer coupled and the weight distribution engaged:
1. From the coupled without weight distribution measurement, the front wheel well measurement is at least halfway back to the original uncoupled measurement. See line C on Front Wheel Well Measure Chart.
2. The rear wheel well measurement is somewhere between the uncoupled height, and the coupled with no weight distribution height. It should NEVER be higher than the uncoupled height. See line C on Rear Wheel Well Measure Chart. See Figure 19.[/blue]

Adding more load to the front axle might make the ride feel better.
In the words of Richard Klein, it also might "increase the propensity of the tow vehicle to jackknife in turning maneuvers".


Just for your consideration --

Ron
Thanks for the very informative post Ron. I always thought there must be a negative impact for transferring too much weight to the front axle (besides possibly overloading the front axle). I guess this post explains that, and shows the trade offs.
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Old 08-25-2014, 07:54 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Okay, that photo was not yours, someone else is missing a bolt and has their tilt maxed out.

On your drop bar you probably need 2 or 3 washers to get the w.d. bars tilted down low enough for weight transfer, but one can only estimate.
Although I have a HAHA, I do have a "PP adjustable stinger for Hensley" made by Sean. With a 2" receiver, I have found 3 washers is about right. On a 2.5" receiver, with a reducer, I use all the washers there is room for, due to the extra slop in the receiver/sleeve setup. Also, I have noted that as the pin head and the stinger bar wear in (say after 5000 miles) there will be enough deformation, or "seating" that you may need to go back and add another washer. I believe I now have 5 in mine (2.5" receiver w/sleeve).
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Old 08-25-2014, 08:10 AM   #96
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Returning from our last long trip with a heavy load I believe our ProPride w.d. bars are too high, so we could add washers for more tilt.
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Old 12-20-2014, 07:51 PM   #97
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I cannot say what anyone else's experience is. Thanks to everyone for their mutual respect of this fact.

For myself, I know there is a significant difference with each level and type of hitch/tow experience.

The 'projected link' or whatever name is used in the Hensley and/or ProPride is a unique tow experience... from my experience with bumper pull to receiver to fifthwheel, gooseneck, inline horse trailers to stock, car, moving, boat trailers... about the only thing I have not towed is an 18 Wheeler or mobile home trailer...

The ProPride I own does a significantly improved job of managing 'sway' and directional control/stability/aggressive maneuver.

It was way more money than I wanted to spend, but had a 'money back' guarantee...so, what did I have to 'lose'?

Actually it was a real 'experiment'... my thoughts were/are... "ok.. prove it".

Me and my big mouth...

Now my wife pulls the AS with care, respect and an increased confidence she can handle whatever the road throws at us.

Compare that to her first experience towing the AS (she is an accomplished trailer tow) where we had the Eze WD and anti-sway to the ProPride and it is a 'whole new trailer'.

Compare the ability to perform very aggressive swerve moves where curb side tires were off the pavement and easy recovery back onto the pavement without the dreaded 'jerk' into oncoming traffic, it proved itself... several times.

Compare ability to just 'point' the tow vehicle to avoid roadway sinkholes and the AS falls in just fine...thanks ProPride...

Compare ProPride ability to not let trailer/tow vehicle get 'out of alignment' in the first place (some anti-sway products merely dampen the deflection rate).. thanks ProPride...

Ok, we finally got to make our first real trip with the Hensley, and well, my wife doesn't need me for my driving skills either...


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Old 12-20-2014, 08:44 PM   #98
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Finger tip control, huh?
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