even bambi needs sway control

[spinyman]

I will be picking up my new Bambi 19 next week and was planning on towing it with my 2005 Land Rover.My manual says,"An equalising or other form of weight distributing hitch should NOT be used with your vehicle".Their italics,not mine.Please advise me on what to use.Thanks in advance.

[Stefrobrts]

Hi there! It's exciting to be getting a new trailer, especially one as cool as a CCD Bambi, congrats! Perhaps you could start out by filling us in on what the weights and capacities are from your owners manual for your Land Rover. Wheelbase is also very important for stability.

[bryanl]

....and in many cases the use of sway control and weight distribution (if necessary) provides the margin of recoverability when we or someone else does something stupid.

Not in my experience.

Sway control mechanisms will not help a driver stay awake or alert.

Sway control will not make much of a difference in extreme situations such as those that cause a trailer to get bashed up.

In extreme situations, it is your trailer brake controller override that will do more than anything else to help you recover.

More than likely load leveling is irrelevant in this issue as well.

Instabilities from sway don't just come out of the blue. Any halfway competent driver is going to notice instabilities in a rig as he or she tries to get up to highway speeds and will compensate with reduced speed and increased caution until the cause can be fixed.

Sway control primarily serves to minimize the discomfort from such behavior and inhibit improper driver response from the trailer caused oversteer. It is better to think of sway control in the same vein as getting better shocks. Maybe a slight impact on safety but the main purpose is handling comfort.

[85MH325]

Bryan, you make a couple of good points, but I have to disagree with the rest.

A sway control will not overcome a poorly prepared driver, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The last severe sway episode I had was with a 15' fiberglass trailer that jumped the bare-ball hitch behind my Excursion because it's coupler was worn. It danced around on the safety chains from one tire to the other until I managed to get it stopped safely. The trailer brakes were useless as it immediately pulled the pigtail out of the socket (I'm sure my facial expression of dispair was maniacal while I pressed the brake controller lever and nothing happened!) If I'd had a dual-cam setup on that trailer it couldn't have jumped the ball to begin with. Thank God I had a 1700 lb trailer and a 7000 lb tow vehicle! If I'd had my normal tow for the FG trailer, a Toyota compact truck, I'm sure it would have rolled me!

The causes of sway are manifold and include improper load distribution in the trailer (both side to side and tongue weight), soft or imbalanced tire inflation on both or either the trailer and tow vehicle, flex in the hitch and/or drawbar, and engineering flaws in the tow vehicle that allow for rear-axle steering, or in my case, hitch coupler failure. It took me two seasons WITH a Reese Dual-Cam to figure out and correct all of the suspension issues that the Excursion had that caused my 34' to 'wiggle' in passing truck traffic or high side winds. It wasn't the trailer at all!

Adding sway control to a tow vehicle/trailer rig without figuring out why it had a sway tendency and correcting it will only cause the sway to overcome the sway control method at the worst possible time. Personally, I hate surprises when I tow. You're much better to figure out and eliminate the causes of sway, and then add sway control as an extra measure of comfort.

Each tow vehicle/trailer combination responds differently when on the road. I'm always amazed at how a trailer that was almost uncontrollable behind one tow vehicle can be absolutely well behaved behind another.

Roger

[enduroryda]

Man...this is the one thing that I am freaked out about. Proper hook-up is key and I do not want to screw it up. I have been cut and pasting pics like this as a reference. I will be towing with an 04' Tundra w/ towing package and have read everything in here about towing with a Tundra from top to bottom. One thing I really am questioning is the rear sag on my TV...when we hooked up to bring our AS home I was amazed at the sag. I called Toyota and they said that the sway bars will help with the weight distribution and will not cause as much sag once properly hook up. We didn't use the sway bars on the way home seeing it was a 5 mile trip of pretty much back roads. I'm questioning this now that I hear you guys saying the rear suspension must be beefed up with additional springs to reduce the sag. Now I'm thoroughly confused. Thanks for any input.

[85MH325]

You shouldn't need extra springs with your Tundra when using a WDH. The rear springs will settle with weight on them, that's normal. You should be able to return the truck/trailer combo to level with the load distribution bars. The idea of the bars is to distribute the tongue weight equally among all of the axles in the hitched truck/trailer combo, and both the truck and trailer should be level when you're finished.

Your Tundra should handle the weight of a 21' just fine with a WDH.

Roger

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by enduroryda

One thing I really am questioning is the rear sag on my TV...when we hooked up to bring our AS home I was amazed at the sag. I called Toyota and they said that the sway bars will help with the weight distribution and will not cause as much sag once properly hook up.

those aren't "sway" bars; they're "weight distribution bars". and as such, if properly configured, will do just that: distribute the weight.

Originally Posted by enduroryda

We didn't use the sway bars on the way home seeing it was a 5 mile trip of pretty much back roads. I'm questioning this now that I hear you guys saying the rear suspension must be beefed up with additional springs to reduce the sag. Now I'm thoroughly confused. Thanks for any input.

no, you don't need to add springs to your truck. Its perfectly capable of supporting the weight of the hitch...if that load is distributed evenly. "adding springs" is only necessary in something like an old sedan that wasn't meant to carry any weight at all. not for a truck like yours. It only sags because the weight is attached so far aft of the rear axle. that distance from the axle creates a big lever. You could put the same amount of weight in the bed of the truck, and it wouldn't sag at all. that's what the distribution bars do to the load.

[bryanl]

Roger, I know it is considered heretical, worse than being a Christian in Afghanistan, to not bow to the Gods of sway control and load leveling in an RV forum. But your own post contradicts itself.

An episode of hitch failure means that the sway control would also be gone - useless to ameliorate the outcome. You also say " The causes of sway are manifold" and then talk about an inadequate tow vehicle. and "I'm always amazed at how a trailer that was almost uncontrollable behind one tow vehicle can be absolutely well behaved behind another." Sway control can be a cover for problems that can reach out to bite you if you aren't careful.

The fact is that you noticed the handling before it became a problem is exactly to my point.

Enduroryda also demonstrates this. He notices the sag and realizes it needs fixing. He is worried about "proper hook-up is key" and wants to make sure to get it right.

When the feces hit the rotating air circulating device, it is way past the point where a sway control mechanism is going to make much difference. Whether it is a hitch failure or an attempt to recover from a sudden maneauver, sway control is well out of its regime. It is the driver who chooses the proper equipment, sets it up correctly, makes sure it is connected and functioning as intended, loads his rig properly, and drives with due consideration for the handling, size, and weight of his rig who has put his efforts into making a safe experience.

[yukionna]

I use the weight distribution bars for towing my 19' 2002 Bambi and have never had a problem with sway even when being passed by 18-wheelers at 65+ mph. There was one time when I was towing my trailer on back roads for 5 miles that I didn't take the time to install the weight distribution bars and I could really feel the difference (i.e., I felt like the trailer was swaying and pulling my tow vehicle from side to side). I didn't like that sensation at all and will never by pass that step again in the future.

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by Leipper

Roger, I know it is considered heretical, worse than being a Christian in Afghanistan, to not bow to the Gods of sway control and load leveling in an RV forum. But your own post contradicts itself.

An episode of hitch failure means that the sway control would also be gone - useless to ameliorate the outcome. You also say " The causes of sway are manifold" and then talk about an inadequate tow vehicle. and "I'm always amazed at how a trailer that was almost uncontrollable behind one tow vehicle can be absolutely well behaved behind another." Sway control can be a cover for problems that can reach out to bite you if you aren't careful.

The fact is that you noticed the handling before it became a problem is exactly to my point.

Enduroryda also demonstrates this. He notices the sag and realizes it needs fixing. He is worried about "proper hook-up is key" and wants to make sure to get it right.

When the feces hit the rotating air circulating device, it is way past the point where a sway control mechanism is going to make much difference. Whether it is a hitch failure or an attempt to recover from a sudden maneauver, sway control is well out of its regime. It is the driver who chooses the proper equipment, sets it up correctly, makes sure it is connected and functioning as intended, loads his rig properly, and drives with due consideration for the handling, size, and weight of his rig who has put his efforts into making a safe experience.

Too funny Bryan! Good simile! But it's not heretical, and in some ways we're saying the same things. I believe that sway control ought to be in addition to doing all the right things to properly hitch and balance your trailer, not a substitute for it.

In the case where my trailer jumped the hitch ball, a WDH would have saved the day with or without sway control because it wouldn't have let the coupler come of the ball because of the force the WDH exerts on the coupler over the hitch ball.

Roger

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by 85MH325

In the case where my trailer jumped the hitch ball, a WDH would have saved the day with or without sway control because it wouldn't have let the coupler come of the ball because of the force the WDH exerts on the coupler over the hitch ball.

Roger

hmmm....my bars push the coupler up off the ball. that latch is what holds it all together. If you disengage it before disconnecting the wd bars, it goes "boinggg", straight up. don't want to think about what that would do to the stability of your ride if it happened while under way.

Nancy: which truck????

[yukionna]

Originally Posted by chuck

... which truck????

The vehicle I call the "beast", i.e., GMC 2500 HD pick-up. Don't forget that my Bambi trailer runs around 4500 - 4800 pounds. FYI, I was just towing the trailer from our house to the Salisbury Beach campground five miles away.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by yukionna

The vehicle I call the "beast", i.e., GMC 2500 HD pick-up. Don't forget that my Bambi trailer runs around 4500 - 4800 pounds. FYI, I was just towing the trailer from our house to the Salisbury Beach campground five miles away.

I must admit, I'm a little surprised. not that you would 'notice' a difference, so much, but that it would be so pronounced. I'd bet its the "rigidity" that the wd hitch connection creates, more than the actual weight distribution with that setup, though. I think we get spoiled by our 'streams...they tow so well to begin with. I used to tow much heavier stuff (flat-beds w/ construction equipment) with a truck like that. no wd or anything. I could "feel" the trailer back there, for sure. but it wasn't like it was "pushing me around". Certainly, a flat-bed w/ a tractor is not as prone to this effect as an enclosed trailer, but that should only really apply at highway speed. Between your house and SBSP, there's hardly a spot where you'd be going more than 30mph.

[yukionna]

Chuck...if you are going to the "Spring into Camping" rally, you can test it out for yourself as I'm running a clinic on "how to back up your trailer" in the parking lot. After the clinic, you can try it out yourself before and after the removal of the wd bars.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by yukionna

Chuck...if you are going to the "Spring into Camping" rally, you can test it out for yourself as I'm running a clinic on "how to back up your trailer" in the parking lot. After the clinic, we can remove the wd bars and you can try it out yourself.

Kewl! do-nuts in the parking lot with someone elses trailer!! wooHOO!!!!!

[enduroryda]

Chuck, Thanks for clearing up the sway bars vs. weight distribution bars...although is there such a thing as sway bars?? Or do people just call the weight distribution bars that..sorry, I'm a real newbie as you can tell, just want to be sure I have all my ducks in a row.

I'm glad to finally have perfect confidence in my TV. I knew it could handle the weight and all from all my info gathered here. I'm taking everything in here one step at a time.

Yukionna...I will hook up from now on...didn't even feel a side to side sway like you said although it was a white knuckle experience driving it home at 30mph. I felt it pushing me a little more over small inclines in the road but once moving on a staight "smoother" road, it towed like it wasn't even back there.

Thanks all for helping keep me out of the way of Leipper's fan!! Ann

[yukionna]

Originally Posted by enduroryda

Chuck, Thanks for clearing up the sway bars vs. weight distribution bars...although is there such a thing as sway bars??

Yes there is. We have a separate anti-sway bar which we have never felt we needed. As I indicated earlier in this thread, even at 65+mph with 18-wheelers flying by us, the weight distribution bars hold the trailer steady. We don't feel any of the wind "washback" from the passing trucks.

[85MH325]

Lots of things are inappropriately called "sway bars". Sway control comes in several flavors, the most prevalent among light weight trailers being the friction sway control bar offered by many different companies. Reese also offeres sway control with their weight distributing hitches in two varieties, the Dual Cam, and their later version of it. Equalizer also has sway control built into one of their weight distributing hitches. The weight distribution bars on WDH also have been mistakenly called "sway bars".

All of these products try to keep the trailer from moving out of line with the tow vehicle. Unfortunately the friction sway control bars, once out of line, also prevent the trailer from recovering with equal alacrity.

Roger

[nickcrowhurst]

Originally Posted by chuck

hmmm....my bars push the coupler up off the ball. that latch is what holds it all together. If you disengage it before disconnecting the wd bars, it goes "boinggg", straight up.

Chuck, when this happens, is the front jack down, supporting the A-frame?
Nick.

[DEO]

Originally Posted by yukionna

Yes there is. We have a separate anti-sway bar which we have never felt we needed. As I indicated earlier in this thread, even at 65+mph with 18-wheelers flying by us, the weight distribution bars hold the trailer steady. We don't feel any of the wind "washback" from the passing trucks.

Can you post a picture of your hitch setup? Thanks in advance...