Vintage Tow Vehicles

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by kdenault

Having just purchased a '65 Overlander, I'm now looking around for a cool vintage tow vehicle. I'm leaning towards something like a late 60's early 70's International Harvester Travelall. They have a V8. Would it be able to handle a wet weight of around 5500lbs as a tow? (PS, this vehicle will be used only for towing, but it will need to tow long-distances-1,000 miles one -way and back again-a few times a year). If the Travelall is not a good choice, does any one have any other suggestions for good strong tow vehicle that may have a similar look? I like that early SUV look.

Kathy

Kathy,

Rob Baker just purchased an International Travell to restore for his 1958 Sovereign of the Road. If you want the early SUV look about your only choices are the International, Suburban or Full Size Jeep Wagoneer or if you can find a Dodge Carryall (very scarce).

Bill

[Van]

I am willing to bet that you could buy this if it was something you wanted...




IIRC it is a 1955 Ford C60. It was rebuilt from the ground up a couple years ago as a dedicated tow vehicle. It has a Ford 460cu engine for massive towing power. Though, it is on the other side of the country...

[azflycaster]

This unit was at the Tin Can Tourist rally I attended last week. I think it is a 1930's era fire engine. It was basicly scrap metal when the owner found it.

[Action]

Kathy,

Picking up a truck for the era may not provide the ride for you. Yes it will tow. And it may be very uncomfortable for a long tow. Stiff ride, no A/C, no other comforts except may be optional power steering and power brakes and a heater. Seats in general will not be of the comfort level of modern vehicles. You will have to add the FM or anything other sound making device beyond an AM. If the truck in question came with any radio at all. Other truck options for that time - clock, automatic transmission, limited slip rear axle, outside right hand mirror, seat belts. Some earlier vehicles (50's) the turn signal lights were optional.

Unheard of stock accessories for trucks of that era - power windows, power seats, tilt wheel, power door locks, power heated mirrors.

Skip the 4 wheel drive unless you plan on going off roading.

The recreational tow vehicle for the 50's, 60's and most of the 70's was a full sized CAR. Read that as in the station wagon. Want to do it with comfort? Get a luxury vehicle for the era. Caddie, Imperial, or Lincoln.

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[rideair]

Kathy,

Here's a couple pic's of my 68 Travelall and 66 Overlander. Spent most of last winter getting it ready. This winter, I've been working on a 62 Galaxie Conv.. Hope to have it and my 66 Safari ready by Region 2 in Gettysburg, Pa.. Next winter will be the 78 Country Squire. Lucky for me, they all are in pretty good shape. I do think if you plan to use a "vintage" tow, you need to learn basic mechanics up front or you could find yourself sitting on the side of the road over something very simple. You'll also find the people who pull with vintage tows, take a full tool kit and spares. You don't want to be sitting in a town for three days waiting for a part.

Paul Waddell
WBCCI/WDCU/VAC 1270
68 Travelall, 66 Overlander
62 Galaxie, 66 Safari
78 Country Squire, 70 Safari

[kdenault]

Paul,

Your 68 Travelall is amazing! That's the kind of tow vehicle I'm looking for. Do you have any good sources for learning more about the Travelalls and/or ideas as to where to purchase--I keep looking on Ebay, but, you know how that is! Are there any specific modifications that would be necessary to a Travelall to optimize towing ability (clutch, carb, radiator, brakes, etc)? I will need to get someone to do the work for me (I'm a therapist, not a mechanic!); is it difficult to find someone who can do work these vehicles?

Kathy

[rideair]

Kathy,A good place to start would be http://www.binderbulletin.org/ There you will find more info than you will ever need to know. They also have a classified section. Just a quick bit of info. The 50's Travelall's are a hard find and when you do they tend to be more work than most would want. 60's era Travelall can be found and in good shape if one looks long and hard enough. Even then, they tend to need paint, interior and gone over from bumper to bumper. Mine, I had to replace/rebuild the trans, brake system, rad., u-joints, carb, fuelpump, waterpump, battery, tires,hitch, carpet, seats, fueltanks, exhuast and one would say it was in great shape when I got it!. 70's era can be found in good shape with little work needed. Most/all Internationals were rust buckets! Mid-West cars tend to be in better shape. Good luck, let me know if I can help in the future.Paul

[safari57]

Found this in the latest Vancouver, BC Buy and Sell:

1966 CHEVROLET SUBURBAN 327 w auto, Washington state truck, v clean, lwr'd rally whls, new tires, dual exh, nice chrome, three seats, tinted glass, may swap for paint job on other car & cash, $10500 negot.

Tel: 604‑597‑8284

Note, Mel, it states that it's a WA state truck. I do not know if the truck is now in BC or still in WA state. These are sure nice units.

Barry

[safari57]

Here's one I found on a for sale website that shows pics of what these look like for those who do not know. It would appear that the one in BC/WA and this one are quite similar.

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgur...lr%3D%26sa%3DN

[Condoluminum]

Kathy-

Good luck in your search for vintage.. If you study most of the Airstream ads in the 60's, they were being pulled by large sedans and wagons, and only on Major Caravans, like Capetown to Cairo, did trucks and Travelalls dominate.

In the mid 60's, large Ford Galaxy and Country Sedan/Squire Wagons could pull a trailer, as could Chevy Impala Wagons. All were more comfortable to drive than trucks of same era, usually with automatics and air conditioning... Few published tow capacity in owners manuals, so trustworthy hitch shop is important. For entertainment purposes, try to rent or watch Long Long Trailer with Lucy and Desi.. Tow vehicle for huge trailer was 1952 Mercury V8, though it was barely up to it, and needed dolly to handle hitch weight...

Hemmings Motor News is largest source of classified ads for collectable and vintage cars.. Try searching their website at : http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm

John McG

[Mel]

Originally Posted by safari57

Found this in the latest Vancouver, BC Buy and Sell:

1966 CHEVROLET SUBURBAN 327 w auto, Washington state truck, v clean, lwr'd rally whls, new tires, dual exh...

Barry

Thanks Barry! Will see what I can find out about this one...

[safari57]

Kathy, my buddy has a '66 Impala stationwagon, power steering, brakes, airconditioning, tilt wheel, nice aftermarket stereo, it's a very nice highway cruiser and has a towing capacity of 6,000 lbs. It can easily pull a lot of the airstreams, has good brakes, and is easy to fix by any garage. He was using a '54 Ford stationwagon that had been upgraded with similar options but it's just a bit smaller and he wanted the extra size for towing, but still wanted a car ride and car functionality when he wasn't towing the trailer. He found it in the local recylcler paper.

There's a ton of these cars available. Wagons were the two vehicles of choice for most families in the 60's and early 70's until trucks really started to come on strong as luxury options. Chev, Ford, Chrysler all had great wagons in the 60's, were built for towing in many cases or are easily upgraded with aftermarket transmission coolers and hitches, and are inexpensive to maintain and insure.

I use a 1957 Pontiac wagon that has all 70's suspension and motor and transmission. It tows our Airstream and pretty much anything else I put behind it with no problems, is inexpensive to fix and insure and yes, it does use more gas, but in the overall scheme of things it's still far cheaper than buying new.

Barry

[kdenault]

OK--I'm starting to look at vintage wagons (due to luxury factor), but I have another general question--this might be a dumb question:

I was under the impression that a trailer should be, at maximum, 85% of the weight of the vehicle. The dry weight of my Overlander is about 4200 lbs, the wet weight is probably around 5000-5200 lbs. Looking at vintage wagons that I've been looking (all V8's), and Travelalls for that matter, their weights are around 4800 lbs--that means that the loaded trailer is heavier than the tow vehicle. How is that handled?

Are there any particular makes/models/years of wagons that would be better (or worse) for towing?

Kathy

[Action]

I have never heard of that 85% rule. And that rule is broken many times. The over the road tractor trailer (18 wheeler) tow up to 80,000 pounds. That would mean the truck (tractor) needs to weigh 95,000 pounds. It doesn't happen.

My full sized van listed below is just shy of 4000 pounds and my towed load of Overlander is 5000 pounds. The rate max load of my van from the factory is 7500 pounds. Ford set that limit. I also tow a 7000 boat and trailer. Both are towed rather well with few issues.

I do not understand the 85% rule. May be you can talk to the person that told you the rule and get some clarification. There may be more parts to it. Like ........
if the trailer doesn't have brakes or
if tow vehicle is under a certain weight
if the tow vehicle doesn't have the equipment necessary to tow
if the towing specs are not known

or????????????

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[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by kdenault

.........
I was under the impression that a trailer should be, at maximum, 85% of the weight of the vehicle. .....
Kathy

I wonder if you are confusing this with the rule of thumb that you should stay under 85% of the vehicles tow capicity?

[Action]

Originally Posted by kdenault

Are there any particular makes/models/years of wagons that would be better (or worse) for towing?
Kathy

Not that I am aware of. I am most familar with Ford/Lincoln/Mercury line up. And as a general rule you want full size versus smaller. (Example Ford Country Squire verus Ford Falcon) And how the vehicle is equipped can make a difference.

Like you want a vehicle that has the bigger cooling system, larger alternator, and ........ Well if the vehicle came with A/C it has most of those bigger items.

Power steering and power brakes would be on my list of options. And Ford did not require (they recommended only) these options. Check axle ratio for towing capacity.

For towing 4200 #'s expect to do some work on the vehicle when you get it. (Car truck or whatever????)
Springs
HD shocks
Transmission cooler
Service cooling system
Wider tires if they are small (not taller)

40 year old springs in the rear of anything is likely seen better days. Replace them or get something else to help out. Air springs, air shocks or ??? - I replaced the coil springs on my '66 Merc. It made a world of difference.

There are some specs out there for towing. They are not as readily available as modern day data and data is still out there. If you choose a Ford product car I have most of all the data you would need for the '60 and 70's. Just give a shout.

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[kdenault]

Rodney,
Yep, that's it!! i knew it was 85% of something . Ohhh well, I think I've reached information overload: last week--bought the Airstream, this week--looking into vintage tow-- boy, my head hurts!!

and the search continues!

Kathy

[wagongirl]

Kathy, Wagons are great!! We love our Ford. Ours is a 1958 2dr ranch wagon that my husband had updated to 1970's trans, engine & drive train and then custom hitch had to be fabricated. All the work except for the hitch was done by him so the cost was not bad, but still we sunk quite a bit of "doe ray me" into it over a peroid of 2 years.
There are some nice late 60's and 70's wagons that could handle it. I'm sure you can find one that has been kept up or updated. Good luck with your search.
Beth

[kdenault]

So my search continues. I've begun looking at cars instaed of trucks (though, I'm still undecided). I'm curious about a couple 1965 vintage cars and their appropriateness as a dedicated TV: Ford Thunderbird, Ford Fury, Chevy Malibu (283 small block engine), and a Chevy Impala (also a 283 engine).

Kathy

[overlander64]

Greetings Kathy!

Originally Posted by kdenault

So my search continues. I've begun looking at cars instaed of trucks (though, I'm still undecided). I'm curious about a couple 1965 vintage cars and their appropriateness as a dedicated TV: Ford Thunderbird, Ford Fury, Chevy Malibu (283 small block engine), and a Chevy Impala (also a 283 engine).

Kathy

Of those cars that you mention, the Thunderbird would be the most likely match for your Overlander (IMHO). The Malibu would be overwhelmed by a coach that is likely to approach 6,000 pounds ready for vacation (my '64 Overlander typically runs closer to 6,100 pounds). While the Impala would be a close call on wheelbase, the 283 cubic inch motor would be smaller than I would consider for the task. The Plymouth Fury of the period could be an adequate choice if it has the 383 cubic inch motor.

One thing to keep in mind with the pre-1970 vintage tow vehicles is that the motors didn't have hardened valve seats to accommodate the unleaded fuels that we use today. It only takes a few miles of towing to begin to develop valve recission -- it is possible (but expensive) to have specially hardened valve seats machined into the heads to prevent the problem -- I had this done on my '65 Dodge Coronet 500's 383 cubic inch V8 back when I first started towing with it in 1980 (but only after I had developed the valve recission issue), and even then the cost of the modification was nearly $2,000.

My suggestion would be to look for a tow vehicle that has at least one of the larger V8s (350 cubic inch+) in what would have been considered to be a full-size car at the time. While I have towed my Overlander with my '65 Dodge Coronet 500 (383 cubic inch V8), it lacks the physical size as a mid-sized car to truly handle the Overlander -- plenty of power but a bit short on wheelbase and weight to manage the Overlander. I know that the original owners of my Overlander towed with a 1964 Mercury (390 cubic inch V8), then a 1970 Mercury (390 cubic inch V8), which was followed by a 1975 Oldsmobile 98 (455 cubic inch V8). Initially, I thought that the original owners of my Overlander were purchasing larger engines than necessary, but I have learned that the big block V8 makes for a more pleasurable towing experience for my frequent trips to the Rocky Mountain region. I wouldn't, however, suggest the 1967-1978 Cadillac Eldorado or 1966-1978 Oldsmobile Tornado as tow vehicles as even though they have the heft and power to handle an Overlander their mechanical complexities (due to their application of front wheel drive) and difficulty in finding replacement suspension parts create many headaches for towing applications.

Good luck with your search for a Vintage tow vehicle!

Kevin