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Old 12-13-2012, 10:10 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by MaxTow View Post
I see this concept in many forums/post - where it is implied that one needs a large vehicle to safely stop your rig...

A few minutes on wikipedia gets to the math for stopping distance for a vehicle -

d = v^2 / (2 u g)

where:
v = velocity (speed)
u = coefficient of friction of tires on road surface
g = acceleration due to gravity

Mass (weight) of the vehicle does not enter into the picture.

Provided the braking system can impart sufficient force to slow the wheels and provided the tires are similar in size and material then a Chrysler 300 can stop the same trailer just as well as a Ford F250.

Comparing the brakes of a 2012 Chrysler 300 V8 with 2000 Ford F250, the 300 has the edge in the front with 13.6" rotors as compared with 13.0" on the Ford. On the rear, the Ford gets the edge with 12.8" as compared with 12.6" for the 300. Call it effectively even.

Duelies on the truck would help as this would increase the coefficieint of friction. But the argument is not that one can only tow with trucks with duelies.

Am I missing something?
Yes you are. Mind you, I am not taking sides in this fruitless discussion, but rotor diameter is only one component of braking effectiveness. Total rotor mass, pad material and surface area, caliper configuration, rotor heat dissipation ability among other characteristics all have a role in performance.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:35 PM   #58
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...and that weight does not enter into the picture. It most certainly does.
the heavier the rig is, the longer the distance required to bring it to a stop.

I always like to have a trailer that is large enough to sufficiently stop my truck (big, heavy) when its brakes completely fail. Which they have. Twice.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:38 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Yes you are. Mind you, I am not taking sides in this fruitless discussion, but rotor diameter is only one component of braking effectiveness. Total rotor mass, pad material and surface area, caliper configuration, rotor heat dissipation ability among other characteristics all have a role in performance.
Sure - but a performance braking system for a sports sedan, where the brakes are designed to stop the vehicle repeatedly from relatively high speed has to deal with all these same issues.

These vehicles tend to have very sophisticated braking systems.

I would not assume that just because "it's a truck", that the brakes have more stopping power.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:47 PM   #60
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With regards to braking,
I have always heard the brakes on the tv are to stop the tv and the brakes on the trailer are to stop the trailer. The tv brakes are not made to stop both.


Using the new Chrysler cars at a tv,
just because you can with a Hensley Hitch does not mean it will be reliable.
I've seen folks from Canada tow a 34ft As with a front wheel drive Cadillac DTS using a Hensley Hitch. The car has the hp, but will it last?


My tv, a Cadillac is rated to tow 7,000lbs. I tow a 67 26ft Overlander.
That's big enough. I only get 10mpg while towing.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:11 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by MaxTow View Post
Sure - but a performance braking system for a sports sedan, where the brakes are designed to stop the vehicle repeatedly from relatively high speed has to deal with all these same issues.

These vehicles tend to have very sophisticated braking systems.

I would not assume that just because "it's a truck", that the brakes have more stopping power.
As I said, I have no desire to get involved in this picking out of false comparisons, legal "ifs", what ifs....etc. This whole discussion is just an exercise in refusal to give in on over opinionated investments in personal theories in which individuals have chosen to drive and tow. But some are so invested they just attack, as if I have.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:36 PM   #62
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Folks,
Evidently, this thread has a life of its own, because it appears that the original poster, Roxy, bowed out on the first page about two months ago. I don't think that this topic is going to be resolved in a satisfactory manner for anyone.

I'm interested in the topic both as an engineer and as someone who grew up in the trucking business. I have some pretty strong opinions on the subject of properly matching any tow vehicle with the load being towed... but this thread is beating a dead horse that should be allowed to rest in peace!

Steve
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:28 AM   #63
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Folks, I'm interested in the topic both as an engineer and as someone who grew up in the trucking business.
I have some pretty strong opinions on the subject of properly matching any tow vehicle with the load being towed.
I think that is the issue. We all have different backgrounds/skills/experiences/ and knowledge base that influences our view of what actually makes up a "properly matched TV/trailer. With research and discussion that view is can be altered to one degree or another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bryant View Post

... but this thread is beating a dead horse that should be allowed to rest in peace! Steve
The nit about public forums is that you always have a new crop of members who come into the fray with new, different, old, or updated views.

The horse will never die. It is still alive and well.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:06 PM   #64
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The most interesting aspect about these proper TV threads - and there are a few running right now - is that there is never any examples of actual accidents or failures to support those who claim disaster is only a matter of time.

On the one side, there are people who have configured hundreds of such towing sedans - people like Andrew T. - and on the other hand there are the doomsayers who have no stats, no examples of all these predicted catastrophes. And, there seem to be no posts from the guy who got suckered into using a Chrysler 300D and had it collapse into a heap on his vacation. Now, I don't know about everyone else, but if I was an Airstreamer who had tried one of Andrew's "disasters waiting to happen" and it fell apart, or caused a wreck, I'd be on forums all over the place telling my story. I guess others wouldn't do that?

I looked on the highway safety web site and could find no statistics that represented this kind of failure. I found that there are 6 reasons that account for almost ALL accidents and they don't include towing issues. They are: inattentive drivers, fatigue, excessive speed, aggressive driving, drunk driving, and bad weather. Add to that "young drivers" as being responsible for 35% of the accidents and I think you get the picture. Airstreamers seem to be about 65 years old as an average. I think they drive carefully. Given all the data that exists from the highway safety organization, I really can't see these claims of towing disaster having much credence in real life.

I am not at all saying that bad things "can't happen." Surely they can. But when it comes the odds of such things, we have to use some logic. It looks like the odds are quite against the disasters being spoken of. You'd think there would be at least a few reports of failure - just like we see in the "tires" arguments where failures are regular and commonly reported.
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:05 PM   #65
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There are examples of accidents caused by inadequate tow vehicles. They always seem to involve green drivers who never towed an Airstream before, an inadequate hitch that was made to tow a 2000 pound trailer, no equalizer bars, no sway mechanism, no trailer brake control or some combination of the above.

Examples of experienced trailerites, with a properly set up rig, having an accident due to equipment failure are unknown. Except for tire failures which can damage a trailer but do not cause a loss of control with a properly set up tow rig.

When accidents happen the size of the tow vehicle does not seem to make much difference. In fact there is some evidence that a low tow vehicle with independent suspension is more stable than a tall pickup or RV with solid rear axle.
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