Perception vs. Reality

[juel]

I have a Toyota Tundra of my own and just bought my husband a new Ford-F150, trading in my new (and I mean only a few thousand miles on it new) Chrysler Town and Country for the Ford. My husband is a Ford man and he didn't really want to take my Tundra to his jobsites. I like the Tundra and it has only been in the shop once for a recall item. I like the Ford very much because it has lots more room both in the seats and the cab. So far no service issues with the Ford. I did pull my 24ft Argosy back from the lake with it and I personally think the stiffer suspension was a little harder on the Argosy than the Toyota ever was. I could tow with the Tundra with a coke can on the shelf and it would still be there when I got home. Not so with the Ford. However, that said, the Ford tows the 31ft Sovereign like it wasn't there and left the coffee maker still on the kitchen shelf when we got down to the lake. Now about the Chrysler van. It is my 4th Chrysler product and each one had major mechanical issues that I hoped had been worked out with each new one I bought. Went thru 5 transmissions on the 1990, bad transmission on the 1996, not a bad 2000 model, but when the new 2007 van had a complete transmission rebuild with 2K on it, and the service people did not bolt it back into place nor apologise for the oversight, I knew it was time for a change. Chrysler also told me they would not replace this Mexican transmission with a new one if it went out again, they could only give me a rebuilt one from Mexico as that was their policy. I think that attitude is what drives Americans to look for a better car or truck no matter where it's built. I've bought and bought American, but these cars are very expensive and if the big 3 want my money, they need to give me my money's worth. The Ford was worth the money and it's our 4th Ford. The Tundra has 77K on it and I'm pleased with the quality. Here is proof that American can build a truck that last.

[RIstream'n]

BillTex say it ain't so, a Toyota?????? Just kidding. Don't you feel much better getting that off of your chest?? Hey Bill speaking of Toyo quality have you seen the 100's of car carriers going down 95 filled with Toyos with rotted frames?? Big Toyo buy back that alot of people won't ever hear about cause they hushed it up pretty well and wrote some checks.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by RIstream'n

BillTex say it ain't so, a Toyota?????? Just kidding. Don't you feel much better getting that off of your chest?? Hey Bill speaking of Toyo quality have you seen the 100's of car carriers going down 95 filled with Toyos with rotted frames?? Big Toyo buy back that alot of people won't ever hear about cause they hushed it up pretty well and wrote some checks.

Yeah, it was somewhat of an impulse. I didn’t know how long the insurance settlement would take, I needed a truck, price was right, it was right there in town…
Any way, lesson learned.
My Wife disliked that truck so much, she pretty much refused to ride in it (it was rather uncomfortable and cramped by US standards. And we are not “super sized” people!). I can remember 2 distinct “incidents”; a tent camping trip to Niagara Falls/Upstate NY and cramming everything in her “Z” car (actually, that trip went fine. We had a good time, even though the car was packed to the gills), and a ski trip to Vermont in a whiteout, and getting a State Police escort the last few miles to the ski lodge as roads were so bad (and our 4x4 truck was home in the garage!) that the police did not think we would make it. I remember the Officer telling me “just gun it real fast and you’ll make it up the last hill”. He of course had chains on his Crown Vic. I remember cursing (under my breath) that this was nuts, we have a brand new 4x4, and here we are in a blizzard with a sports car, because Lorinda refused to ride in the truck!

To each his own, but to answer the original post; Japanese is not for me (Clearly, not for Lorinda either…).

Bill

[safari 28]

Originally Posted by RIstream'n

BillTex say it ain't so, a Toyota?????? Just kidding. Don't you feel much better getting that off of your chest?? Hey Bill speaking of Toyo quality have you seen the 100's of car carriers going down 95 filled with Toyos with rotted frames?? Big Toyo buy back that alot of people won't ever hear about cause they hushed it up pretty well and wrote some checks.

I am curious as to the models and frame issues you speak of.

[DFord79]

Originally Posted by Chuck

there is such a thing as "too stiff", too. So, I'm not sure exactly what it is they're tryin' to sell, here. I once saw a documentary about the building of Mack trucks, and they kinda did the opposite of what they're doing in the ford videos...demonstrating how "flexible" the frame was on this huge beast of a truck...because if it wasn't, something would snap. forces get "absorbed" rather than transmitted to other parts.
Not to "dis" Ford. I've had good luck with my last couple of Ford cars.

as far as "looking at new vehicles" goes...they're all ~fabulous~, when they're new. Thats why car salesmen are so eager to get you to test drive them. Whatever it is, its WAY better than that smelly old thing you're driving now. .
Talk to me in 5 years. once the shine wears off, and stuff starts breaking...thats the real measure, imo.
I've got a ford car, and a dodge truck, both the same model year...same mileage. The difference in repair costs is absolutely staggering!

CHUCK,... I am going to DISAGREE with you here to the utmost. THERE IS NO,,, I REPEAT NO suck thing as a too stiff frame. EVERY manufacturer does what that can to make stiff frames. The science of a good handly car...truck,,,or RACE CAR lies in the fact...yes FACT that NOTHING should flex but the suspension. I have had this discussion with RACE care manfacturers and Peterbuilt truck. THEY DO NOT WANT FLEX IN A FRAME...PERIOD. The only one who wants flex is off roaders...serious jeepers. If the frame flexes you have lost some control of how the vehicle handles. If you research this you will find this to be true. Its not my opionion its what manufacturers and race car builders have told me. And dont' say a race car isnt a good comparision....its an excellent comparision. Even in the off road truck world of racing they beef up the stock frames so they would not flex. To have total controll only suspension parts need to flex. The ladder frames on trucks is a very hard thing to get perfectly figid because the manufacturers are limited to the triangulation they can use. That is why Ford started putting large frame rales under their trucks. Have you noticed that Fords weight about 400 to 600 lbs more than comparable equiped GM, Dodge or Toyota...its all in the frame and axels,,, and brakes.

[Chuck]

Ok, ok! I'll take your word for it!

I claim no expertise in this area; I'm just sayin', it kind of smells like a marketing "gimick", thats all.
lots of "big strong structures" have alot of flex in them...more than people realize...on purpose.
Its talked about here, too. axles too stiff...spring bars...3/4 ton rear-ends, pounding the crap out of dainty airstream frames....

But those are suspension parts; not "frames".

again, though, explain that Mack truck documentary, where they demostrated the frames flexibility. The Mack employee giving the demo seemed quite proud of it.

interesting about the ford being the heaviest. When I bought my truck, the Dodge was the heaviest of its ilk (1/2 ton, extended cab/4x4 trucks). with the worst gas mileage, to match. Things change...
Hey, at least the Ford "appears" to have something to justify its inflated tow ratings. Most of the manufacturers just seem to slap bigger ratings on their trucks each year, to out-do the competition, without actually changing anything. at least...anything we can "see". Until some governing body creates some definative measures, they can say whatever they want.

[RIstream'n]

Originally Posted by safari 28

I am curious as to the models and frame issues you speak of.

Not sure on the exact year range but it's on Tacomas.

[azflycaster]

The Tacoma's in question are 1995-2000 models. The problem seems to be lack of corrosion protection as the failure occur on trucks exposed to road salt. Toyota has extended the warranty on the frame to 15 years and has sent out letters to the owners on record. If Toyota finds the frame to have failed they will buy the truck at 150% of the high blue book value plus give you an additional $1,000 if you buy a new Tacoma.

TOYOTA OPEN ROAD BLOG: Living Up to Our Commitment

[RIstream'n]

Just drove by a recycling yard on my way home and I saw 100 Tacomas being dropped off. Gotta love those perfect Toyotas. Ever wonder why this stuff never makes the news. If it were one of the big 3 it would be plastered all over the place.

[safari 28]

Originally Posted by RIstream'n

Just drove by a recycling yard on my way home and I saw 100 Tacomas being dropped off. Gotta love those perfect Toyotas. Ever wonder why this stuff never makes the news. If it were one of the big 3 it would be plastered all over the place.

Wow! Very interesting. First time I heard of this and it has to be an industry first. You know for a lot of folks, the compensation offered is weak if they had planned on keeping the truck for an extended period of time. I mean put yourself in the shoes of a recently fired worker or foreclosed home owner. To buy again with credit being wiped out could be a real hardship.

Man if this was the big 3 they would have been crucified. I wonder how many will be destroyed?

[RIstream'n]

They went to salvage auctions and were sold to recycle yards where they'll be parted out and the parts will be sold. The recycle/salvage yards will clean up on these.