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Old 01-14-2008, 09:54 AM   #1
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New Toyota Diesel

KickingTires: Toyota Plans Diesel V-8 for Tundra, Sequoia
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Old 01-14-2008, 10:44 AM   #2
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new toyota diesel

I'm first in line.... can't wait for these.
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Old 01-14-2008, 10:53 AM   #3
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More diesels

The Diesel Wars are alive and active on the planet.

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Old 01-14-2008, 11:10 AM   #4
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Interesting statment about a cellulose source for ethanol. Corn ain't gonna fly, IMHO. Thanks for the info.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:10 AM   #5
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The title should be "New in USA".
I've seen Toyota diesel 4-runners in Europe 30 years ago.
It is about time America catch up.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:15 AM   #6
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maybr a good reason

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajtek1
The title should be "New in USA".
I've seen Toyota diesel 4-runners in Europe 30 years ago.
It is about time America catch up.
Does Europe have the same or more stringent emission requirements, if they are less, I could understand why we have fewer diesels, but if they are equal or better, you have a great point.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:23 AM   #7
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You are opening a can of worms here. Diesels have been always much cleaner engines than gassers. That's why all diesel cars ever sold new in California don't have to have catalic converters.
Diesel emits different pollution, what IMHO gave oil companies excuse to force banning them here in last decade.
Why would an oil company want you to drive 40-70 mpg car, when you can drive 7 mpg Hummer?
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajtek1
You are opening a can of worms here. Diesels have been always much cleaner engines than gassers. That's why all diesel cars ever sold new in California don't have to have catalic converters.
Diesel emits different pollution, what IMHO gave oil companies excuse to force banning them here in last decade.
Why would an oil company want you to drive 40-70 mpg car, when you can drive 7 mpg Hummer?


Well put. Diesels are nearly 30% more thermally efficient than any gasoline engine. Making bio-diesel is much easier as well.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajtek1
You are opening a can of worms here. Diesels have been always much cleaner engines than gassers. That's why all diesel cars ever sold new in California don't have to have catalic converters.
Diesel emits different pollution, what IMHO gave oil companies excuse to force banning them here in last decade.
Why would an oil company want you to drive 40-70 mpg car, when you can drive 7 mpg Hummer?
Hi Kajtek,

I was not asking if diesels were cleaner than gassers, I was asking if Europe has the same emission standards, or less/more stringent than the US, including California which has typically been the toughest in the US. I can't see that question leading to a can of worms.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:37 AM   #10
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Which country would you like to compare and to which state?
As far as I know lot of states have no diesel car emission standards?
The 5 diesel vehicles I own in California are all exempt.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajtek1
Which country would you like to compare and to which state?
As far as I know lot of states have no diesel car emission standards?
The 5 diesel vehicles I own in California are all exempt.
Ok, lets compare Germany and California. I believe Germany would be a good comparison since it has been a strong environment for auto technology and California because it may have the most friggin rules in the US.

By the way, I share your condemnation of the greedy oil companies, at least I think we agree. I also agree that technology progress is many times delayed or abandoned due to "corporate" profit motives and the ol' "we have to do what is best for the stockholders". It is shameful.

After we hash out this we should get back to the main thread topic, although I believe this is related.

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Old 01-14-2008, 12:15 PM   #12
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TIME - I remember hearing in the ULSD battles that Europe had an 8ppm sulfur standard. Compromising with complaining Big Oil caused the U.S. to settle for the current 15ppm sulfur standard for ULSD. This doesn't address the 2nd diesel problem of particulates -- but 25% of the particulates in L.A.'s sky come from China. It's a complex issue to say the least. The most stringent standards anywhere are probably California's as you know. That makes the Toyota statement that started this thread interesting if these diesels can truly be 50-state engines -- which is one of the reasons Detroit has said they won't jump willy-nilly into diesel. So hopefully Toyota can prove it can be done.

Jeff - Yes, there is not enough corn acreage in the U.S. to have corn ethanol put a dent in our fuel demand. Interesting that I've seen subsidized soy diesel widely available in Illinois. But that would probably hit the same supply shortfall as corn ethanol.
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Old 01-14-2008, 12:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajtek1
Which country would you like to compare and to which state?
As far as I know lot of states have no diesel car emission standards?
The 5 diesel vehicles I own in California are all exempt.
All new diesels sold in the US now have both catalytic converters and EGR valves, in all 50 states. Diesels have always been cleaner, however until recently had higher sulfer contents...

You can read more about it here:

Diesel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree, that the US has been lacking in diesel technology for some time, but until recently there has been little point to do the R and D on it.

It all boils down to the almightly dollar. When it's economically feasible or legislation forces everyone to do it, they'll git 'er done, until the...status quo.
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Old 01-14-2008, 12:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE
...I was not asking if diesels were cleaner than gassers, I was asking if Europe has the same emission standards, or less/more stringent than the US....
no they don't have the 'same e. standards'...

the parameters for emissions are different, and mostly the u.s. has been behind europe (not asia) on this issue....

ulsd fuel has been in use many more years in europe, while we are still just getting 2 it...

so we've got more sulfur still while they've worried less about 'particulates' and nitrates are still a small issue for all of us...

but e85 is WAY more nasty than most folks understand, besides being a low btu fuel.

otoh SUPPORT and INCENTIVES for using diesel technology are also much greater in europe.

they've understood the energy content issue of diesel fuels and the vehicle makers have had much greater support for diesel technology...

just like cali-crooksnkooks effectively killed mass transit 50 years ago, they've stifled better fuels...

in the spirit that all good monopolist do!

a toyota diesel is very welcome, but the platform needs more beef 2 pull my 6 wheel pig!

cheers
2air'
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