Mercedes G500

[uwe]

Originally Posted by Big Jim

You are the first person I have heard from that has used a "G" to tow that I have heard from, you seem to feel like Mercedes of North America. They told me I would have no problem, mine is the 4 door version wich is relativley longer and I have to admit the thing has unbelivable tourque especially in low gears, I was told it would be equivalent to a H1 in many ways but even still I want to be safe. I was thinking of getting the rig and making my first trip to a scale to see if I was under my gross weight, what do you think?

It's difficult to explain the handling differences to those tha haven't driven a vehicle like yours.
Going to the scales is definitely good start.

[Big Jim]

I agree, and 2002 is the first years they were made for the US. That means it has the Electronic Stability Program wich makes it almost difficult to get away from you even with our 350" a year snowfall where I live. Its a tank for sure, that being said its a big trailer. Hopefully the rigid suspension will help with the tounge weight and with a 7000 pound tow weight and a 5500 pound trailer(net) I think its at least worth a try, if nothing else, for the picture! Even if it is on the way to trade in right?I will definitly let you all know what happens, the trailer is being built I found out today, should be in around the 20th of Sep.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Big Jim

... I was told it would be equivalent to a H1 in many ways but even still I want to be safe...

i've driven both the postgray market merc (last generation) and the real H1...

comparing them is silly, EXCEPT for the slab sides and blockish shapes and cabin noise...

and i SURE would NOT tow a LARGE modern 'steam with either.

the merc is nice at hiway speeds and ON hiways, except for the wind noise and mpg...

the H1 won't GO at highway speeds, except downhill. zero2sixty is measured with a sundial.

however at 35-45 mph the hummer has NO equals, NONE.

off road or on trails there is NO comparison. the hummer will EAT the merc all day long.

the steering, suspension and torsen all wheel drive is AMAZING in those elements.

but comparing the merc to the hummer for TOWING, well....

the hummer IS lousy at towing an airstream, yep i've done it.

check the towing rating on a 3-6 year old H1, it is MUCH less than most would imagine.

IF u wanna get yer trailer and TRY it with the geewagon, fine, that's good empiric learning.

but that 1300 bucks is JUST for the receiver, not the hitch or wiring or brake controller or actual HITCH apparatus...

and with THAT wheel base you will want a haha or 3p which is another 2500$+...

have fun, be safe, it's only money, unless something bad happens.

cheers
2air'

[uwe]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

off road or on trails there is NO comparison. the hummer will EAT the merc all day long.

That wasn't what we experienced on the Rubicon trail a few years back. Hummers didn't even make it through the easy stuff.

[2airishuman]

many sections of the rubicon are TOO NARROW for a H1.

rock crawling is an entirely different thing,

notice the "35-45 mph" movement suggested.

a hummer taken THROUGH that area, but NOT of established trails would do fine.

professional drivers demonstating that a given 4/4 can navigate that specific recreational trail wasn't my reference...

and still doesn't refute the main issue of TOWING a large modern 'stream with either.

look, i've ridden a pedal powered mountain bike in areas where the hummer or merc or any other tv would fail...

so what's that prove?

cheer
2air'

[SilverToy]

2air -

Are you lookin' for an arguement? as usual.... or just throwing around the multiplicity of 'experiences' you have had, have done, experienced or watched others do....

Just wonderin' ??? As it seems that the question at hand seems to have been shelved in favor of invitations to try to get the 'king' off the mountain.... But then there is always the question of what the "definition" of 'king' is.... But I digress....

Back to the G-wagen question.... shelve the bike references!

Ciao!

Axel
SilverToy

[Big Jim]

woah, WWII is over guys, and we won, but that still doesnt convince me the H1 is any better on or off road than a G. Even if the H1 is 10% better off road , the H1 driver listens to diesel and the G wagen driver can listen to motzart wrapped in leather with seat warmers on and on the highway the G accelerates faster than anything the US miltary has that doesnt fly. Not to mention the G was here before the Hummer and I dare say it will still be in production after the Hummer. But remember, we were talking about Airstreams. I bet if you take a room full of young vets( like me USAF) and let them pick you better have three G wagons for every H1 because all around your right, comparing the two is silly, the G is a way better all around buggy, time has allready proven that. Lightheartedly bigjim

[Silvertwinkie]

I too thought we were all talkin about towing. As I pointed out earlier, I don't think the engine in the G is in question, but obviously, if you have the $$$ for a G and an Airstream, than about $2k (if 2air's projections are correct) should not be an issue for you. Regardless of affordability I bought a 3/4 ton Suburban. Is it as well built and agile as the G? Nope, but it does the trick very well with my 25 footer, with axle upgrades could also be upward of 7300lbs as well (right now it's about 6200 loaded with the older axles). I too bought based on the possibility of kids being in the mix. Without kids I would have gone with a crew cab duramax pickup. With the possibility of kids, the Suburban won out, and it has a 9400lb tow rating.

If I read correctly, the G has a 112" wheelbase. The Suburban has 130" wheelbase. Electronic controls for stability only go so far and mind you they are geared for that particualr vehicle that the are installed in. Having towed my 25' Airstream with a 118" wheelbase I can tell you first hand that in high winds (25+mph) it wasn't fun at all. The trailer moved me and it was a constant fight to keep it on the road and not a ditch or the grassy median of the highway. My prev tow vehicle weighes about as much as the G and I will be the very first to say, moving a 7000lb RV (in my case 6200lbs) with a short wheelbase 5500lb vehicle, the trailer will OWN you. If it want to move in a different direction, no vehicle stability will help in out, you will move as the trailer wants you to move with only slight input from you and the stability control.

You've clearly stated that safety of your family is paramount and money seems to not be a big issue...trading the G will most likely be a even wash for a new longer wheelbase truck with a higher rated tow capacity. I love GM, but frankly in your situation, I doesn't matter what you go with, just something with a longer wheelbase (at least 130") and a higher tow rating.

Again, the G is a phenomenal truck and does what it is designed to do well. But the laws of physics can not be overcome by even the most stout engineering (5500lb truck moving a 7000+RV with a short wheelbase). It has the potential to be a receipe for disaster if yer not careful.

[Big Jim]

Youre right, I dont know how we got on that debate. I will say it is one as a G wagon owner I am forced into often. That being said I am very concerned about the short wheelbase and how that will affect towing capabilities as you said, no matter what technology is in the benz. The fact is looking cool is always trumped by saftey, and who says any TV doesnt look cool with a Airstream behind it. I would rather drive a f250 on the road than a g in a ditch right. Not to mention, could you imagine the phone call to my insurance guy on that wreck, nobody would ever insure me again!

[Silvertwinkie]

I suppose I'm sort of old school. There are many an RVer that will tow a 34' with a Nissan Quest or a Dodge Intrepid. There are some the believe that you need a Freightliner or a Mack truck to tow a 20' RV.

I think it all boils down to common sense, intuition and running the numbers objectively of both the tow vehicle specs and what potential real world applications you'll be putting against those specs. You've been given lots of great info here and I think regardless of what is said here, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and I'm fairly confident you'll make the best choice for your situation.

Here is some reading that might help put some wheelbase questions into perspective...use it as a guide, not law:

RV Towing Tips - How long?

[Jaxon]

Originally Posted by Big Jim

The fact is looking cool is always trumped by saftey, and who says any TV doesnt look cool with a Airstream behind it. I would rather drive a f250 on the road than a g in a ditch right. Not to mention, could you imagine the phone call to my insurance guy on that wreck, nobody would ever insure me again!

And there's your answer. Besides, when you get to where you're going (if you can tow it there), it's all about the Airstream and enjoying your surroundings...

With a gross of 7300# for the Silver Cloud and a max tow rating of 7K# for the benz, you're 300# over. Probably more and that's going down hill with the wind behind you, having been on a diet loosing alot of weight, driving alone with an almost empty tank... Avoid anything with an elevation higher than a berm, avoid highway entrance ramps, rain, snow and well... nature, you should be OK with the benz...

Otherwise, look for something that might not look as "cool" (always subjective and seasonal) but that has the ability to get you where you want to go safely and easily. Anticipate the unexpected.

Happy camping, Big Jim!

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Big Jim

...I dont know how we got on that debate...

no debates here, we agree the gee is a WAY nicer road machine than an H1...

but earlier it was suggested that

I was told it would be equivalent to a H1 in many ways

and the point is, THAT'S a SILLY COMPARISON for TOWING....

because the H1 is poorly suited for towing LONG HEAVY 'streams and so is the gwagon.

great brakes, good suspension and some low end grunt are wonderful features, but there are many other pratical issues.

other than throwing out brands and models i see no mention of the important factors related to selecting a tv.

-past experience towing
-expected travel pattern (distance, frequency, location, cargo, days of use)
-accessories/toys that will go to
-people on board and so on....

so far mentioned are safety (which is nebulous at best) and comfort/speed as roading attributes.

it is tough to get folks to agree on what combination of gear is "safe" when it's the gearHEAD that matters.

NOONE is knocking the benz and if you wanna try towing with it, do so,

just keep in mind the setup will require some thought, added equipment and so on...

there are links to the relevant threads, and i could point u2 the 4-5 members here towing with the old g or the H1...

but doubt that info would be useful either.

using a 3/4 ton diesel truck isn't the only other option, there are folks here towing that trailer with...

f150s, tundras, VANS and other rigs too, and not all are NEW.

buying an older dedicated tow beast is a good move for many, then u can keep the g.

winning is about the most toys right!

it's neat the trailer is NOW being built, that is an exciting stage, trumped only by the delivery and maiden trip.

of course there are also lots of tips/tricks/issues and guides on inspecting and accepting that new trailer or not.

it's all posted so read on...

cheers
2air'

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Big Jim

Hello,...I am interested in a 2009 28'...and want to know if I have enough tow vehichle. I have ... a tow rating of 7000 pounds... the salesman says to pull it dry... I would like to hear from someone who doesnt stand to make a commision as to how close to the net weight a trailer is in a " real life" situation...

so lets back track to the original post and questions...

working UP from the bottom.

-real life means weighing the trailer. axle and tongue weights.

-YOU will have to do that. there is VERY LITTLE real iife info reported on 2009 trailers here.

-this figure is affected by OPTIONS, fluids, lpgas and cargo, which are all part of real life rv use.

--the 'stream published weight figures do NOT include any of these things. infact they may still not include a SPARE TIRE...

-in all likelihood the TONGUE WEIGHT for that 28 will approach 1000lbs.

-so far i read posts from only ONE member who remotely might benefit financially from your choices,

so the rest of us are just trying to help, or not.

-towing DRY is no fun. MUCH of the fun of rv travel is the journey,

-and it's a lot of fun to make lunch, a jug of tea, use the crapper or take a shower in route, so dry travel is counter to that.

-the published tow capacity is only partial info.

-that figure is REDUCED by cargo, people, fuel and accessories on the tv...

-payload of the ACTUAL TV will be a primary issue. WHAT IS THAT FIGURE 4 your ride?

-the tongue (900lbs) + a hitch (100-250lbs) + people (500lbs) + stuff in the tv (??) ===1600----2000 lbs of PAYLOAD...

-now decide is the tv adequate for the LOAD and do YOU have enough tow vehicle?

-does the 80% guideline matter 2 you?

so "enough tow vehicle?"...

---to get to the local city park, yes.
---across the state, maybe.
---to the coast and around the country or for lots of local trips with toys on board, WHO KNOWS till you try it.

cheers
2air'

[Big Jim]

Thanks for the info, and honestly I live @ about 7300 ft above sea level and many of the places I would like to go are up from here, I think I am going to need more power and more wheelbase for sure. I think a dedicated TV may be the way to go. With my growing family I want to be safe but I also like the room of a SUV. How about a 3/4 ton suburban? I have a friend who has allready found some with "quadrasteer". Are you familar with that? I have been told that might be a good TV and lately they are around @ a good price. I really would like to avoid a pick up although it might be nice to have for some other odd jobs as well, I just thought I might be able to get that third row of seats in the suburban. How about a Ford Excursion? vs a suburban? Could I find either one of these for under 20K. Boy, if anyone needs help spending money call me, I am becoming an expert. O well, stimulating the economy right, just doing my patriotic duty( remember, I paid US taxes on that Austrian Benz too.) Do you think my Airstream will be like a plane or boat, by that I mean do you just throw money @ these beautiful trailers alot. My guess would be ,not on a new one, or am I wrong about that too?

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Big Jim

...I live @ about 7300 ft above sea level and many of the places I would like to go are up from here...I also like the room of a SUV. with "quadrasteer"... I really would like to avoid a pick up although...How about a Ford Excursion? ...do you just throw money @ these beautiful trailers alot...

at altitude i like forced induction.

the easiest approach to that is a turbo diesel.

obviously a supercharger (or turbo) can be added to many domestic gassers for some money.

i too was attracted to q-steer, but it wasn't available on the models with the highest towing capacity or diesels.

moosetags has 2 q-steers, so he can tell ya all about it.

suv or truck? besides people how much stuff will ya haul?

i prefer tools, bbqs, gensets, WET CRAP, blue totes, bikes and so on in the truck bed (under shell) AWAY from people.

and i don't want loose/heavy STUFF flying in the cab in emergency situations.

many are very happy with large suvs and LOTS of streams are towed with 'em.

imo the larger 'burbons are so HEAVY that they don't have nearly the carry capacity as u might imagine,

space YES but payload is still an issue on the big burbs.

unless you opt for the 2500 series and go with E rated tires, which make it a legit 3/4 ton,

but it will still be a slug at altitude, look for the ones with the 8.1 L gasser.

the excursion can be had with a turbo diesel, lots of mods available to enhance it.

the diesel exc' is a good towing beast and gets better mpg than the burbs...

a v10 is also available and with LOTS of gettup, but it is a heavy drinker too.

bambi's bandit used one (till the new f250) and did lots of mods, his posts are useful on excursion.

YES they (burbs, exc, 3/4 trucks) can be had found for under 20k, it's a buyers market now for the big trucks and suvs.

throw money? it's possible, really depends on how satisfied u r with the trailer, right out of the box.

the warranty will cover most of the nagging repairs at the outset, but travel to/from the dealer is on you.

a/v upgrades, solar, gensets, kitchen gear, mats, party lights, the list goes onandon....

a variety of basic & non essential rv STUFF will set most new owners back several k$ the first year or 2.

the other issue is, IS THE 28 big enough? many, many folks go up a size or 2 in the first 2 years of ownership.

so buying a tv with the capacity FOR THE NEXT LARGER 'stream can be a money saver.

cheers
2air'

[dpandorf]

Originally Posted by Big Jim

Thanks for the info, and honestly I live @ about 7300 ft above sea level and many of the places I would like to go are up from here, I think I am going to need more power and more wheelbase for sure. I think a dedicated TV may be the way to go. With my growing family I want to be safe but I also like the room of a SUV. How about a 3/4 ton suburban? I have a friend who has allready found some with "quadrasteer". Are you familar with that? I have been told that might be a good TV and lately they are around @ a good price. I really would like to avoid a pick up although it might be nice to have for some other odd jobs as well, I just thought I might be able to get that third row of seats in the suburban. How about a Ford Excursion? vs a suburban? Could I find either one of these for under 20K. Boy, if anyone needs help spending money call me, I am becoming an expert. O well, stimulating the economy right, just doing my patriotic duty( remember, I paid US taxes on that Austrian Benz too.) Do you think my Airstream will be like a plane or boat, by that I mean do you just throw money @ these beautiful trailers alot. My guess would be ,not on a new one, or am I wrong about that too?

I would suggest you go to some local dealerships and test drive everything you might be interested in to get a feel for what's out there.

I spent waaaaay more money than I had planned on but I did so knowing I didn't want any compromises. I have a family of 4, wife two boys 12 & 9 and a 50 pound dog that only knows two speeds: sleep and wide open. My wife made me buy a new 2008 F250.

We found a year 2000 34' Classic and the seller also wanted to sell his 2000 F250 with it for $16,000. Had 89,000 miles and clean as a whistle. However, my wife could not stand the diesel noise and the truck like ride.

On the way home from looking at the combo she made me pull into a Ford dealership and had the salesman take her for a ride in one. She didn't even drive it, just wanted to ride in it. Came back 15 minutes later sold.

Its not an SUV, but I have all the creature comforts of a car/suv, leather, heated seats, GPS NAV with rear DVD entertainment for the boys. Huge I mean huge heated mirrors that telescope, integrated brake controller, tow command transmission, E rated tires and both 7 & 4 pin connectors in the rear.

There was nothing else to add other than some Rhino lining in the bed and a topper to cover all the crap I can carry.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by dpandorf

.... My wife made me buy a new 2008 F250...

that's one smart woman!

the difference in noise, smell, ride quality, steering, amenities and so on is dramatic going to the 08s...

and test driving EVERYTHING is a great idea, that's another reason i didn't opt for the q-steer gmc truck,

NO dealer had one to drive, even in 2005.

there might be a little bit of good info on the 08s here...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...now-30023.html

i'm still waiting for the dealer to get some 09s, right now they only have prices and order sheets...

something about production and buyer interest moving toward itty bitty cars?

cheers
2air'

[Silvertwinkie]

Big Jim, if you get a 3/4 ton Burb get the 4.10s. For mountain type towing, 4.10s with a gasser will be far easier on the tranny. If you go Excursion, not sure what gears are avail, but would clearly go for something more then 3.73. If you go diesel anything, 3.73 or around there would be more than fine since diesel needs not torque multiplication.

As for fuel economy of the 4.10s vs 3.73s, I can tell you first hand that the differences in MPG are nearly undetectable.

IMHO and I am not looking to start a GM vs Ford thing here, outside of the diesel Excursion, the 3/4 ton Suburban runs circles around any of the gasser Excursion models. GMs engines and transmissions are frankly really decent, and, GM still makes Suburbans, where there are no longer any Excursions still being made. Having a few 1996 GM cars, I can tell you first hand that with the state of the domestic auto industry, parts in a few years (fenders, lenses, etc) will be more and more difficult to find for older and particularly vehicles no longer in production. It was not uncommon in the past to find fenders, etc for some of the most mass produced vehicles. Lately, cut off for parts is getting sooner and sooner.

One other suggestion, regardless of what you get, if it has the rear DVD player, particularly with the wireless headphones, I can tell you hauling my wife's niece and nephew on a trip, we heard not a peep, or things like are we there yet. They could plug in their video games, watch movies, etc. 4-7 hours for them went by line it was nothing.

[SilverToy]

ST -

I was one of those parents that said "let them enjoy the scenery" and all that horse pucky..... until I went and got an aftermarket dual video set up for the headrests.... all was quiet after that purchase...!!!!!!!!

Here's a heads-up for all those considering a new vehicle purchase with a consideration of kids in the current or future.... GET THE VIDEO SET-UP!!!!! It will pay for itself in the shortest order!

OK, back the regular thread - now that I have that off my chest.

Axel
SilverToy

[Wayward]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

I suppose I'm sort of old school. There are many an RVer that will tow a 34' with a Nissan Quest or a Dodge Intrepid. There are some the believe that you need a Freightliner or a Mack truck to tow a 20' RV.

I think it all boils down to common sense, intuition and running the numbers objectively of both the tow vehicle specs and what potential real world applications you'll be putting against those specs. You've been given lots of great info here and I think regardless of what is said here, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and I'm fairly confident you'll make the best choice for your situation.

Jim, I'm with Twinke on this one - use your judgement. But do not over analyze things. Seeing you've got the Benz, why not hook up the Airstream with a nice WD/sway hitch and see how it tows? Use common sense, tweak things a bit if needed, sell the truck if you are not happy. Personally I'd take a well setup G500 anywhere with a light Airstream like the Flying Cloud - it is a very capable tough truck with an awesome motor. (not to mention an interior that makes a Lariat feel like a Yugo )

...............Scott