Land Rover LR3 towing story

[markdoane]

That picture explains a lot. Now I can see where the failure was.

[87MH]

Originally Posted by reventlow

..... Where is that person who wants to go RVing in a nice Airstream supposed to go to get just basic info on what can and will tow her trailer.

Try here:

http://www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=962029

"Trailer Life" - then double-click on "Official 2005 Tow Ratings"

BTW, the chart indicates a max trailer weight of 5,500 lbs for the Land Rover 3 - previous years indicated two ratings - one for "high range", and one for "low range"....can't imagine doing much OTR (Over The Road) towing in "low range".

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Pschoerrn

It should look like this one... Taken from Land Rover Homepage. It is a detachable Version, so maybe that caused the failure?

It would take a LOT of convincing on the part of the sales department for me to accept that to tow anything of any significant weight. Plus, I would want it in writing that it would do as they promised. Obviously, it wouldn't. Can the lady that has the Land Rover return it, get her money back, and go buy something more suitable for towing? Such as, a full-size pickup or van, or SUV?
If the truck won't work for what she needs it for, it isn't worth the $60,000 or so she paid for it. For that kind of money, she could get a lot of american iron.

[Silvertwinkie]

Thanks for the pics...I had never seen that before and as others have said....it's pretty clear now that we've seen it. I hope she'll be able to trade it in or get her $$$ back, cause the issue won't go away until she gets a tow vehicle that is rated correctly for the load she wants..........

[nickcrowhurst]

This thread makes me a little sad. We in England are very proud of our LandRovers. I have been driving them for 40 years, and I have owned a LandRover Discovery for the last 15 years. They are superb for their intended purpose, which is off-road in extreme conditions. However, I wouldn't use one to tow the skin off a rice pudding. I use mine to haul loads of about 1000 pounds. There is no substitute for weight, frame rigidity, long wheel-base and torque IMHO, when it comes to towing. I have tried towing a Jeep Cherokee with it's recommended maximum 5000 pounds towing load. White knuckles. I studied this forum, and purchased a 3/4 ton Dodge Ram 3/4 ton LWB 5.9 litre diesel quad cab pickup. Ladies and gentlemen, I salute the United States for many reasons, one of which is producing superb tow vehicles. Towing with this vehicle is a dream. I have a lot of sympathy for the lady. Nick.

Land Rover now builds SUV's for the American market,so style and panache have become more important than true practacality. The Defender line still lives up to the original intent. But only one model , the D90 was imported to the U.S. . I know.... there were 500 numbered long wheel base Defenders imported in the 90's but the steel roll cage rusted like crazy and made them look top heavy.I've been into land Rovers since the late 60's. I have factory training as a Range Rover mechanic, worked for Land Rover North America and trained the sales teams here in the U.S. on the Discovery when it was introduced and went on to supervise construction of Land Rover Centres from Chicago to Tampa. The company was sold to BMW and then to Ford. Like everything else, things change. They are not the same company that they once were and their markets and products have changed. They make a lot of products that the U.S. never sees. Really tough trucks like the High Capacity Pick-up. The diesel crew cab is especially nice. A lot of car company's have rediscovered what made them so popularr , like Mini(BMW), the Beatle (VW) an the Mustang (Ford0 maybe Land Rover can do the same. They've been taking about a new Defender(original Land Rover) for the past couple of years.I hope it comes to the U.S.

[AirHeadRik]

Just sold my 2003 Land Rover Discovery and bought a Nissan Titan with the full tow package to tow the little Bambi. The LR felt horrible towing anything over 2000 pounds. I love Land Rovers, but I don't think Disco's and the LR3s are not so great for towing. Just my opinion.

So far I love the Titan!

[Claybuster]

I too got rid of an '03 LR Disco (which I loved for everything but towing) and replaced it with an '05 Titan Crew-Cab. My family and I just returned from a 2 week long trip to Yellowstone, which included almost 3200 miles of driving. The combination of 19' Bambi, Titan, Hensley Arrow, and Prodigy controller was probably overkill... but it was a completely relaxed and enjoyable experience.

We were travelling with some friends who have a 36' motorhome and I was watching them blow around during some fierce wind crossing I-90. We didn't feel anything. In fact, for most of the trip (unless going up steep-ish inclines), you couldn't really tell that there was anything behind us.

Whenever I see a Discovery, I think about how much I liked it... but as a tow vehicle, it just wasn't any good.

[AirHeadRik]

Right on! Thanks for confirming what I thought was the right move. We'll be towing in a bout three weeks.

Cheers,

Rikki

Originally Posted by Claybuster

I too got rid of an '03 LR Disco (which I loved for everything but towing) and replaced it with an '05 Titan Crew-Cab. My family and I just returned from a 2 week long trip to Yellowstone, which included almost 3200 miles of driving. The combination of 19' Bambi, Titan, Hensley Arrow, and Prodigy controller was probably overkill... but it was a completely relaxed and enjoyable experience.

We were travelling with some friends who have a 36' motorhome and I was watching them blow around during some fierce wind crossing I-90. We didn't feel anything. In fact, for most of the trip (unless going up steep-ish inclines), you couldn't really tell that there was anything behind us.

Whenever I see a Discovery, I think about how much I liked it... but as a tow vehicle, it just wasn't any good.

[GGreen]

I've been towing my 1999 Safari 25' with my 2005 Land Rover LR3 HSE. We live in the Lake Tahoe area at 6200' elevation. Many of our trips have involved going down to sea level and back. We've hauled up the mountain from the valley without any problems. Last summer we drove from Sacramento where the temp was 108 degrees and came up the mountain, running the air conditioner with no increase in engine temp. It pulls the Safari very well. Plenty of power to maintain highway speeds on any hill we've encountered. The LR3 has a 300 hp Jaguar engine and a six speed tranny. It's also got self-levelling air suspension so no special hitch is required or recommended. We've been in some pretty windy conditions and lots of mountain roads without any stability issues. I had read posts suggesting that the Land Rover would not work as a tow vehicle, many from people who had never owned or driven one. So, I wanted to relate my actual experiences. I've also towed a 1976 25' Caravanner (destroyed by snow this winter, but that's another story) and a 1973 25' Tradewind. Both of those towed fine with the LR3 as well, but they are both lighter than the 1999 25' Safari. The LR3 has excellent brakes and a short rear overhang. It won an award in Europe for Tow Vehicle of the Year (not sure the details on that, I read the press release but didn't keep a copy). Anyway, I've had nothing but good experiences towing my various Airstreams with the LR3 and can give it a good recommendation as a tow vehicle

[SteveH]

I find this thread interesting, as I have read on this forum many times where American vehicles with as short of wheelbase as the Land Rover, were highly discouraged as tow vehicles.

Is there a different "stardard" for tow vehicles in Europe?

[bredlo]

Probably, Steve. I don't see why something as esoteric as towing recommendations would be any different than differing speed limits in various places, illegal blood alcohol levels varying state by state, or laws that prevent you from towing a boat, trailer and motorcycle carrier all at the same time whereas elsewhere it's perfectly fine.

There's data, facts, figures and conclusions, but it kind of boils down to how much weight any of that is given by the governing bodies in a particular area. So while there may be stories of short wheelbase-caused crashes that create "standards" here, overseas they may find wheelbase length just isn't a contributing factor in crashes they've examined.

To each their own, I guess. And hopefully the best data out there is available to everyone to keep us all safer.

[nickcrowhurst]

Steve, we tend to have much lighter trailers and hitch weights in the UK. One of the premier organizations for travel trailer owners in the UK is the Caravan Club. Advice on trailer weight is given here:

Outfit matching

Using these guidelines for my Land Rover Discovery TDI (A different beast to the LR3, of which I have no knowledge)
Kerb weight of LR Discovery = 4428 pounds.
CC recommended max trailer weight (surge brakes)= 3761 pounds
CC recommended hitch weight for this max trailer = 262 pounds
The LR shop manual gives the following maxima:
Trailer without brakes = 1654 pounds
Trailer with over-run (surge) brakes = 7717 pounds
Trailer with full brakes = 8820 pounds
I've been driving and trailering with the LR Discovery for 18 years. I would always stick to the CC figures. The vehicle is superb off-road, its true purpose. When I tow my 6500 pound Airstream Excella 25 foot I use my 3/4 ton Dodge Ram Cummins long wheelbase Quad cab Turbo-diesel truck. Now that's the proper tool, IMHO. You couldn't pay me to tow the Airstream behind the LR Discovery.
Nick.

[rangebowdrie]

I believe their is a different standard in Europe. Over there, they use a "sliding bar" type of hitch, that is fastened forward of the rear of vehicle. Weight distributing type hitches are not used. Also, very little weight on hitch, and most vehicles are not allowed to tow at speeds greater than around 50 mph. The method of hitching/towing is totally different, and would be unsuitable for high speed American towing.

[SteveH]

Yes, I've actually been to England and found their "caravans" (English for travel trailer) interesting, as they have much less tongue weight (you can tell from the placement of the axle(s), and they normally do not use a WD hitch. However, their roads are smaller, even the "M" roads, (English equivilant of our interstates), and they drive slower, generally speaking. That, I'm sure, is because they have a much shorter distance to go.

But, as I've been told on here many times, "Physics is physics".

[purman]

Also take into consideration you will not get a 25' trailer down most of the country lanes in the UK.. you couldn't even get a dodge truck down the lane behind my Mum's cottage in the UK and it's used as a two lane road....!!!!!!!! about 6-7 ft wide....!!!!!!

There stuff is smaller and lighter... For a reason... If you have been there you know what I'm talking about..... My Mum lives in the Cottswalds, country lanes, even on the main road in front of her cottage cars have to pull on the sidewalks to pass each other... You don't even see pickup trucks driven about unless the person is in the construction business...

If you have ever watched the show "Topgear" They said the F150 didn't sell in the Uk for a reason... Don't need a truck over there, to big to park and craftsmanship sucked... This wasn't even an extended cab or extended bed, that they were driving around..

The LR is about as big as it gets over there... No way can you drive a Suburban around in the country lanes....

Everything is Bigger and Better in the USA...
Isn't that what everyone says....!!!!!!!!

If you like cars watch the show on BBC america.. The show is great...

[Kay]

I have a 2006 RR Sport. I would like to tow a 25' CCD. Hitch receiver has the same 550 lb. limit. Manual also says not to use WD system. Out of luck?

[Ron Gratz]

Originally Posted by SteveH

I find this thread interesting, as I have read on this forum many times where American vehicles with as short of wheelbase as the Land Rover, were highly discouraged as tow vehicles.

Is there a different "stardard" for tow vehicles in Europe?

Yes, I believe there is a different "towing standard" in Europe. The Caravan Club link provided by Nick recommends a nose weight (tongue weight) of 7% compared to the 10-15% typically found on TTs built in the US. It is interesting to note that 7% of 7700# is close to 550#. And, for the numbers given by Nick, a hitch weight of 262# divided by a trailer weight of 3761# gives a TW of 6.97%.

In order for a trailer to be directionally stable with a TW of 7%, it must have a polar moment of inertia which is significantly less than that for a trailer which is stable with a TW of 13%. European caravans typically have a larger portion of their mass concentrated over the axles and close to the CG. And, they tend to be shorter. Both of these differences contribute to the lower moment of inertia.

Tow vehicle wheelbase is another important factor in directional stability of TV/TT combinations. However, there are many other important factors. Some US-made tow vehicles have a relatively long wheelbase which tends to compensate for shortcomings in other areas. OTOH, European-made tow vehicles have a relatively short wheelbase, which is compensated by stability-related improvements in other factors.

Ron

[Aage]

Another sad fact is that a once highly-regarded marque such as Land Rover appears to have, at least in this country, a very poor reliability record.

I don't know how Consumers Reporst data is regarded here, but I believe them to be as unbiased as possible, and in any event, their reliability data is actual owners' responses: "These charts are based on over 1.4 million responses to our 2008 Annual Auto Survey conducted by the Consumer Reports National Research Center."

Now, I don't know how many results they got on Land Rovers, but the LR3 got a "much worse than average" rating, as do the LR2, and the Range Rover.

Pity. These aren't cheap cars.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by purman

If you have ever watched the show "Topgear" They said the F150 didn't sell in the Uk for a reason... Don't need a truck over there, to big to park and craftsmanship sucked...

Funny...that "300 hp Jaguar" motor is a Ford...

BTW; Jaguar and LR are (until VERY recently) owned by Furd...