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Old 09-12-2013, 11:30 AM   #15
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davcarv: Payload and towing capacity are not the same thing, but they need to be viewed as a part of the same evaluation. Let me start by saying I use a "half-ton" truck and intend to do so as long as I have a trailer that's within its capabilities. I'm not trying to say that the only way to tow any Airstream is with a 1-ton turbodiesel.

An important thing you didn't list in the components of payload is the tongue weight that's applied to the hitch by a trailer, and that's where the 2 capacity measures interact directly.

Another way they interact, though not quite so visibly, is in Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR). If you look at all the numbers, you'll see that for lots of trucks, you can't tow the max trailer weight if the tow vehicle is at its max gross weight (i.e. if it's loaded to its max cargo capacity.)
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:21 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Wazbro View Post
The most important rating is payload.

That is the limiting factor for what Airstream you can tow in most cases.
+1

With a "1/2 ton", you will usually exceed the truck's payload limitation, due to actual hitch weights occupants and other cargo, well before reaching theoretical published "tow limits".

Exceed the truck's payload limitation, regardless of the trailer weight, and you are now a test pilot!

And, I have a F150 SuperCrew EcoBoost 3.55 locker- #1,620 payload rating
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:55 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DKB_SATX View Post
davcarv: Payload and towing capacity are not the same thing, but they need to be viewed as a part of the same evaluation.
I respectfully disagree. Payload is a meaningful number, based on sound engineering principles.

Tow capacity, in my opinion, tends to be a number made up by a combination of the legal and the marketing department.
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:32 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by davcarv View Post
Payload Capacity seems to me to be a different thing than towing capacity. I would think that towing capacity is the capacity of a vehicle to tow something while payload capacity relates to the payload weight applied to a tow vehicle. Isn't tow capacity the ability of weight a tow vehilce can tow and payloade capacity is the weight that a tow vehicle can have applied to the axels. IE, wieght of the occupents, carpet, Liner, Gas, Hitch weight. I gues what i'm asking is even if they are related paylode and tow capacity are two different things.
Also, regarding taking trailor prospective trailer to a wiegh station isn't really feasable. In that most sellers, regardless of if they are private owners or dealers arent' going to let you simply, 'test drive', the trailer to a wiegh station to find out if your truck can handle it.
True payload and tow capacity are very different things.

The problem here in North America is that with the 10-15% normal tongue weight required for the trailer to be stable most of the time you run out of payload before tow capacity.

Some of the F150s are rated to tow over 11,000lbs some with less then a 1600lb payload, with 15% tongue weight that is 1650lbs, even with a weight distributing hitch shifting some of the tongue weight to the trailer it leaves very little payload for passengers and cargo.

Now in Europe it wouldn't be a problem since the laws of physics are diferent there and they only need 5-7% tongue weight for the trailers to be stable, so an 11,000lb trailer would have at most a 770lb tongue weight.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:20 PM   #19
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What does the sticker on the right side drivers door frame show as your maximum payload for your particular truck????
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:41 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by andreasduess View Post
I respectfully disagree. Payload is a meaningful number, based on sound engineering principles.

Tow capacity, in my opinion, tends to be a number made up by a combination of the legal and the marketing department.
Well, in that larger context I must concede the point... it seems they underestimate for minivans and overestimate for trucks to encourage buyers to get trucks, etc. At least when comparing one F150 to another it gives you an idea of how they differ, if not an exact measure of capability.
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Old 09-12-2013, 05:20 PM   #21
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It is really important to check the particular f150 you want to buy. Mine with an ecoboost engine has a 2740lb payload and can pull 11000ib trailer. Since mine has gvwr of8300lb and the tongue weight is only 750lb I still have almost a ton of capacity. Granted the weight distribution uses some of that.
It is a supercab with 8foot box. Obviously not a popular combo
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Old 09-12-2013, 05:39 PM   #22
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It is really important to check the particular f150 you want to buy. Mine with an ecoboost engine has a 2740lb payload and can pull 11000ib trailer.
Al
Sounds as if you have the "Max Payload Package" as well? - hard to find - I tried!

Not to be confused with the "Max Trailer Tow" package - to be found more easily.

Two different animals..........both great options.
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Old 09-12-2013, 07:10 PM   #23
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Yes I do. It is easy if you order from the dealer.
I am a contractor. Had to have supercab and 8 foot box.(drywall and plywood). Short boxes are for commuters!
Having trailer I had to have Max tow package.
That leaves you with not too many choices. Only engine offered with that combo is Ecoboost. That is how I got there. And I am very happy with it.
Most power I have ever had in a van or pickup. Heavy duty payload is automatic with Supercab and 8 foot box. But you can't get that combo in the fancier trim packages.
I think only in xl or xlt.
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Old 09-12-2013, 08:45 PM   #24
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Yes I do.
Al

"Commuters" - Yeah, I work at a desk........but at home!......

Bet you have the 3.73 rear end as well.

Amazing how many folks focus on the "Max trailer poundage" advertised/promoted versus the payload..........which is the REAL limitation for 1/2 tons usually.

And, airbags / helper springs don't increase GVWR, they only "level" the load. Lots of test pilots out there.............

I think only Toyota(?) follows the SAE delineated tow rating parameters so far............

Guess I need to order up a Max Payload / Max Tow F-150 EcoBoost before the 2015 F series comes out............I love the EcoBoost, like a little diesel.

You can get the Max Payload on a EcoBoost - SuperCrew, but you have to get the 6.5' bed versus the 5.5' bed. But, my garage is too short, and my HOA is too..........
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Old 09-12-2013, 08:54 PM   #25
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"Commuters" - Yeah, I work at a desk........but at home!......

Bet you have the 3.73 rear end as well.

Amazing how many folks focus on the "Max trailer poundage" advertised/promoted versus the payload..........which is the REAL limitation for 1/2 tons usually.

And, airbags / helper springs don't increase GVWR, they only "level" the load. Lots of test pilots out there.............

I think only Toyota(?) follows the SAE delineated tow rating parameters so far............

Guess I need to order up a Max Payload / Max Tow F-150 EcoBoost before the 2015 F series comes out............I love the EcoBoost, like a little diesel.

You can get the Max Payload on a EcoBoost - SuperCrew, but you have to get the 6.5' bed versus the 5.5' bed. But, my garage is too short, and my HOA is too..........
You will lose nothing when the new specs are out on F, G, and R (D). It will just be an additional performance based number which will put all MFRs on a level playing field for how much you can tow up a certain grade at a minimum speed, with A/C on...... You will have all the same CAPABILITY specs you have today for analyzing CAPIBILITY.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:25 PM   #26
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Max tow package compared to the regular tow package only gets you bigger mirrors.3:73 gears and a reinforced brace on the rear bumper.
You really need Max Payload Package also to pull a larger Airstream comfortably,which unfortunately most dealers refuse to order for stock inventory and it is only available in a long box .To top this off you can not get this in the upper level trim models and it is only available with funky wheels.None of the dealer personnel that I have spoke to even knew why anybody would want to order this option. Yet they can all tell you how many pounds the truck can pull.Very frustrating for a buyer.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:05 PM   #27
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davcarv

The max trailer weight that you can tow means nothing.

You will exceed the max payload long before you get to the max trailer weight.
However the max payload is a difficult number to work with because you can't go to a scale and weigh the truck to see if you exceed it.

Set your sights on two specs- the truck gvwr (the maximum allowable weight of the truck) and the truck rear axle weight rating (the max allowable weight the rear axle can carry). Both can be measured at a truck scale.

For example, I have an 08 Tundra. The truck gvwr is 6,900 lbs, the rawr is 4,100 lbs. I am not going to use the following figures, but the payload is 1,680 lbs and the max tow rating is 10,600 lbs. When I load my truck including gas, wife, two dogs, small genny, bed cap, chairs, grill, tools, 2x8 planks and other stuff, and attach it to my 5,000 lb trailer I am essentially at the truck gvwr of 6,900 lbs. I am 200 lbs under the rawr of 4,100 lbs. Remember that my trailer weighs only 5,000 lbs. See why the max tow rating is meaningless.

I would read some of the threads defining the limitations of towing with a 1/2 ton vehicle, so you can make an informed decision on what trailer you want to buy.

Good luck, Dan
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:41 PM   #28
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I am towing with a 2013 Ford F-150 Ecoboost, with the two package, and could not be happier. My AS is a 1997 25' Excella Classic, and we are currently halfway on a trip from NC to the Grand Canyon and back. The truck has performed flawlessly, and pulled the AS out of the Palo Duro Canyon ( 1 mile, 10% grade) without any trouble at all. It rides like a luxury car and seems to be doing just great!
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