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Old 02-26-2018, 01:00 PM   #15
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The FCA 3.0 VM was designed for Europe, and was adapted for the North American market.

The Ford 3.0 Lion diesel was designed for Europe, and was adapted for the North American market.

Agree that SE Asia is an entirely different discussion. But isn't the 2.8 litre Duramax built in Thailand?
I understand, but without knowing what markets the engine was initially designed for...or how much mechanically, or how many dollars a particular engine would require to make it compliant, we can draw no conclusions. Yes, the 2.8L is made in Thailand and the Ford 3.0 was used in Europe first. But, did those design teams anticipate a potential market elsewhere and accommodate for that during design???? We don't know. The Jury may still be out on the FCA...thus the potential allegations of software tampering??????

I believe the EPA is done with the re-certifications for all, or most, of the diesels after they mandated re-certs due to the VW thing, and I have heard nothing relative to Ford and GM (nor Cummins) being out of compliance. I think there was a discussion surrounding a particular portion of a test and it's parameters on one engine (can't recall who's or which one) but I think it was cleared up. I haven't researched where they are with the VM questions.
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:40 PM   #16
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Couple thoughts and/or opinion.

Diesel trucks will be around until some one can figure out an engine that both has the grunt and efficiency to do what the Diesel does and no Elon Musk Electric Semi Truck is not the one.
The Globalists are aiming for all electric no combustion engines. Good luck w/that.
Do not blame VW other than what a few did was wrong. Other diesel MFG's play loose w/start up mode. Go read on it.
Parts of CA. want to be ruler of US. and the world just like EU is trying. Good luck w/that. Other countries are working on pulling out of the EU just like UK did.
FCA is talking cars not trucks and maybe. Maybe is what? How much is speculation AKA Fake News?
Just one mans thoughts.

Best regards and safe travels
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:49 PM   #17
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Post 16. Agree totally!!!!.
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Old 02-26-2018, 02:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbowman View Post
Couple thoughts and/or opinion.

Diesel trucks will be around until some one can figure out an engine that both has the grunt and efficiency to do what the Diesel does and no Elon Musk Electric Semi Truck is not the one.
The Globalists are aiming for all electric no combustion engines. Good luck w/that.
Do not blame VW other than what a few did was wrong. Other diesel MFG's play loose w/start up mode. Go read on it.
]Parts of CA. want to be ruler of US. and the world just like EU is trying. Good luck w/that. Other countries are working on pulling out of the EU just like UK did.
FCA is talking cars not trucks and maybe. Maybe is what?

How much is speculation AKA Fake News?
Just one mans thoughts.

Best regards and safe travels
LOL

1) We already have an alternative to diesel engines, with more grunt and efficiency. Electric motors. The question is energy storage, not the motor.

2) Globalist? Is that someone opposed to Dieselists? If one drives a vehicle made by a global corporation, is one a globalist? Just wondering.

3) What VW did was criminal. As the courts decided. As for other manufacturers who played loose with the rules, sure. That is why many manufacturers are pulling back from offering diesels, including some of the strongest promoters of diesel passenger vehicles. It isn't that they can't meet the regulations, they are just not willing to take the hit on their bottom line. Don't blame the rules when people and companies knowingly break them. Blame the lawbreakers.

4) ??

5) FCA isn't talking at all. Sources familiar with an upcoming FCA announcement are talking. The announcement is about passenger vehicles. If you don't believe it, fine. That's your prerogative. Wait to see the FCA announcement that is reported to be coming. All you lose out on is early information.

6) Every time I see the phrase "Fake News" (always capitalized) I read it as describing news that someone or other doesn't like. Nothing more.
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Old 02-26-2018, 02:36 PM   #19
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Post 18. Agree totally!!!!

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Old 02-27-2018, 07:47 AM   #20
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Sure and everything on CNN is the truth. And collectivism & the utopia these Marxist “progressive” international socialists sell is just how it’s going to be once we all surrender the rest of our rights and give them complete control & decision making.

Until opportunity is crushed & utopia degraded into a police state er equality. But it works well for the gov elites who are above it and in control of the guns, food, healthcare, businesses, property, who picks winners & losers instead of it being won through a free market with individuals voluntarily deciding what fuel or anything else they purchase.

Sorry I don’t want to live under the iron fisted rule of communism & government force. Government’s job, responsibilities, power & control, should be limited or innumerated & defined. Living in a commune sucks whether the state was taken by force such as China, Russia, and N Korea or deception hook & crook where it was voted into power such as most recently (99) Venezuela.

Sure some of these states are less oppressive with more educated people and things are not degraded in the same way they simply lose most of their inspiration & desire to continue to develope & aspire. Self responsibility becomes “the governments problem”.

But we are not suppose to debate or decide how we want to be governed anymore. It’s why the “masters of the universe” has gotten gov to take control of colleges then public school system curriculum where they can eliminate civics & teach revised history & collectivism path as right & good. In this way our inexperienced youth will eventually vote it upon us and then we the general citizens can fully assume our role as servants to the gov elites.
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Old 02-27-2018, 08:28 AM   #21
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Enter mods...stage left......
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Old 02-27-2018, 08:49 AM   #22
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We are watching, and this thread is already crossing the "no politics" line. Also, being nice is required.

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Old 02-27-2018, 09:35 AM   #23
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Quote:
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I understand the new small GM diesel came from GM's diesel centre of excellence in Italy, ...
Sorry, but I read that and started chuckling. My bad. I guess it was that Fiat I once owned.
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Old 02-27-2018, 10:51 AM   #24
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Sorry, but I read that and started chuckling. My bad. I guess it was that Fiat I once owned.
The centre had close ties to Fiat. It is in Turin, the T in Fiat. It was part of a joint Fiat GM powertrain effort. It works on diesel projects for GM for worldwide markets, including the Duramax.

Interesting article here, including some discussion of the future of diesels for GM:

http://europe.autonews.com/article/2...h-into-diesels

All that said, if we are going to slag Fiat then that opens up the whole question of them owning Ram.
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Old 02-27-2018, 11:01 AM   #25
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Apologize if my self humor caused issue w/some, was not my intent.

Understand we have the motor and the battery is the issue. Also understand HAZMAT issue's w/batteries, whether being made or disposing of. Most people do not look into this issue.

My intent was nothing more than, when one starts to research on the why, what, and where in a every changing industry such as vehicles and moving forward, government regulation and politics has been and continues to drive the industry for many years now. Not saying bad or good, just stating what is what.

Yes a few at VW committed criminal actions. Do not disagree. Remember the FORD Pinto exploding gas tank?

I digress, apologize.

Me I do not see Diesel going away in my life time. Could be wrong. Hopefully some engineer is working on something along the lines of such fuel used in "Back To The Future Delorean". Humor please note.

Best regards and safe travels
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Old 02-27-2018, 11:11 AM   #26
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...and then, there's this story. A German court has ruled that in Germany, cities and towns can ban diesel-powered vehicles (I think the focus is on cars) from their cities and towns: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ckle-pollution

Perhaps another incentive for FCA to "quit diesels" - at least in cars.
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Old 02-27-2018, 11:40 AM   #27
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Diesel "cars"

According to what I read FCA will drop diesel from cars, but not trucks.
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Old 02-27-2018, 11:45 AM   #28
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Me I do not see Diesel going away in my life time. Could be wrong. Hopefully some engineer is working on something along the lines of such fuel used in "Back To The Future Delorean". Humor please note.

Best regards and safe travels
I don't think diesel is going away any time soon. But recall that the article was about passenger vehicles, so all the examples of heavy trucks, and even medium duty trucks, is a whole other issue.

With heavy trucks (eg class 8), there are bridging solutions being developed. Prior to retirement, I led an engineering product development team at a developer of LNG fuel systems for heavy trucks (and rail locomotives, and marine, and so on). Those trucks are on the road today. The locos are still in early demo stages, the marine products are operating. We used a dual fuel approach (standard diesel engine mechanically, new custom injector with dual concentric sprays of diesel and natural gas) whereby the NG was injected first, but didn't ignite due to the characteristics of NG, then a small amount of diesel (eg 5%) was injected and it ignited just like it would in a diesel, but now acting as a type of "liquid spark plug" for the natural gas mixture in the cylinder. So the engines worked just like a diesel, had the same power and torque characteristics, were significantly cleaner at the tailpipe due to less diesel combusted, were noticeably quieter due to the different combustion characteristic, and so on. More expensive up front than a straight diesel. Cheaper to operate due to NG fuel prices. Of course, to get the range required, one had a cryogenic LNG tank on board and all that entailed (a little back to the future-ish, I suppose). But the point of all this? The diesel was still there. It couldn't go away, it was what made igniting the NG possible. Sure, you can build a natural gas recip engine with a spark plug, but then you have the power and torque characteristics of a gasoline spark ignited engine, and truckers like the characteristics of a diesel in terms of lugging ability, and so on.

It won't be one answer in the future. Urban delivery will go electric IMO. Trucks or buses working from a set base of operations can use natural gas with refueling at the depot. Long haul will depend on there being a network of stations being built for whatever fuel is used. But the solution won't be homogenous, they will all be in the mix. One thing I am confident of is that it won't look just like today.

Cheers

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