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doorgunner · 05-28-2007, 08:23 AM

This pic added for Royce's enjoyment, There's something about a sharp tool, Nice website Royce, and I also enjoy alder, straight grained, lovely color lightweight and easy to find.

Royce · 05-28-2007, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doorgunner

This pic added for Royce's enjoyment, There's something about a sharp tool, Nice website Royce, and I also enjoy alder, straight grained, lovely color lightweight and easy to find.

DG,

Thanks for the kind words on the web site. The photo looks like a Lie-Neilson low angle apron plane. Correct or is it antique? Nice plane at any rate, saved a spot on the shelf for one but don't own it yet.

I am not a collector and only buy as needed so only have 10 planes on the shelf to pick from. Room for 6 more.

doorgunner · 05-28-2007, 08:46 AM

Good eye Royce- I've owned this one for 15 or so years, it's my favorite hand tool. Really sharpens up well with waterstones and holds a fine edge for a long time.I looked at the wood shop just last week, planes are getting expensive, at least nice ones!

JimGolden · 05-28-2007, 01:25 PM

I'll check out that book DG. I had some composites training in college and have the books from that. I've worked on some boats and fixed the fairing on my Goldwing after I dumped it.

I'd like to attend several of those Sportair workshops. I did just take a semester long welding class at the local community college and got myself a new Lincoln TIG machine. That's for the plane. It'll do stick also, which is for about everything else. IF I need a new frame, I'll stick most of it.

Oshkosh is very high on my list. My best bud out in Seattle (he still works for Boeing) wants to rendevous with me up there summer 2008. Since Camp Schuler appears to be basically a field, I'll need tanks and a generator. Don't know if I can be ready in time....

Sun and Fun I flew over once in a 172 doing my long cross country back in '89, but never got to go to it. The only "big" EAA show I've ever gotten to go to was the Arlington one when I worked at Boeing. It was great though. I'd really like to get up to Osh.

I know the new AS classics are using Corian counters and hickory cabinets. Hickory is very heavy, and corian is too.

I guess rather than get super nuts with it, I'd just like to beef mine up a little bit and not add a ton of weight to it.

I woodwork too....funny how the guys on here that are into fixing up these old trailers and are into airplanes are also into woodwork. If you guys are like me, you're always busy, can never sit still, and always have a never ending list of projects to work on!

Like they said in "Conan the Barbarian", time enough for sleep in the grave.

AgZep · 05-28-2007, 01:35 PM

Yeah, I'm an EAA guy too. I guess we're all alike or something.

vswingfield · 06-25-2007, 03:42 PM

Hi Jim,

Simply replacing the MDF tabletops with laminate covered AC plywood is a considerable, inexpensive, weight savings. I replace a couple in my Excella, and the new pieces were noticeably lighter to handle. Sorry, didn't weigh the difference.

Vaughan

LI Pets · 06-25-2007, 07:08 PM

I just replaced all my screens with fiberglass type, when I gathered up all the old alum screening it had some weight to it!

sos10 · 06-25-2007, 07:32 PM

Hi,

I have some furniture at home (swiss design) made out of Alucobond.
Originally this material was used for covering buildings and similar, but more and more designers start to use it for furniture, because it's extremely strong, lightweight, very thin (4 mm) and beautiful!

Basically it's made of 2 layers of Aluminium with a core of fire proof composite.

You can order it in many sizes, bend it, cut it any shape you want and it's structurally strong, so no need for a frame.
You can use normal utensils (like for aluminum) for cutting, drilling and folding (V shaped milling for a perfect angle)

It comes in several strengths and colors.

Besides cutting on weight, you also gain space in your Airstream.

I am going to redo my '07 Bambi in this material as soon as I have a good working space.

Alucobond - The World's Favorite Aluminum Composite Material

or google Alucobond furniture.

Sten

malconium · 06-25-2007, 08:58 PM

Sten,

This looks like pretty interesting stuff indeed! It has been around for along time too and I have never heard of it. I don't suppose it would be strong enough to be used for a sub-floor? Have you been able to get any idea on what pricing would be like. Have you been able to zero in on a stocking distributor?

I would be very interested in seeing how this works out for you. Mostly depending on price I would be interested in considering it for my remodel as well. So please keep us posted on any details you find out about.

Malcolm

overlander63 · 06-26-2007, 08:19 AM

This would probably be cost-prohibitive, but you could replace all the wooden counters and framing with Balsa wood. That is what they make many RC airplanes out of. Pick up a piece of Balsa, and a comparable sized piecce of Pine, or Oak, and you will notice a huge weight difference.

doorgunner · 06-26-2007, 08:33 AM

O-63 Great idea! Remember that balsa is soft! So you can still purchase end grain balsa sheets.Different thickness's are available. And not cost prohibitive! Check some of the boat places. Lots of fast boats used this construction method- I used to race J-24's. Strong hulls. The balsa makes a lightweight core, then just glass or use some other material on both sides. You can even bend the end grain some and then glass over it- like if you wanted to make curved bases for new dinete area. Lotsa possibilities, show me the lay up table! As you all know I'm a big fan of composites and vacuum bagging. I'ld really like to make a composite trailer just need a financial backer.

DG

HiHoAgRV · 06-26-2007, 10:25 AM

How about attending the EAA Composites workshop and get up to speed on Foam cored construction. Then you could build a fully composite frame with integral structural tanks and all sorts of other wiz bang stuff. The attached screen snapshot is a 31 foot composite frame using 45 cubic feet of volume. Anyone know what the mass is of a foam cored structural member? If you'll PM me i'll update the model and post the total weight.

Inland RV Center, In · 06-26-2007, 10:35 AM

The type construction of an Airstream trailer is semi-monocoque, which means that the "shell" is load bearing.

It does not mean that an Airstream flys like an aircraft.

With any aircraft, weight is "extrememly" important.

NOT SO WITH AN AIRSTREAM TRAILER.

Start at the west coast and go to the east coast, with the typical 60 gallons of water on board and nothing else. That payload is 480 pounds.

Duplicate the trip with "NO" water on board. You will find the difference in fuel mileage to be absolutely insignificant.

Unless considerable mountain towing is on the agenda, towing an empty or fully loaded Airstream trailer over a long distance will make almost zero difference in fuel mileage.

That information is based on a study of over 100,000 miles of testing.

Andy

Tim A. · 06-26-2007, 11:52 AM

Andy, thanks for that information. Now I do not feel so guilty about running so often with a full or nearly full freshwater tank.

I just read through this whole thread again and I cannot help but having the feeling that many suffer from my own problem. That is, thinking how much fun it would be to build lighter and better with weight reduction only a nice excuse for doing the work. I am presently restoring a riveted aluminum rowboat built by my father in about 1950. It is 9 1/2' long, all rounded in shape, and a great accessory for our Airstream. The bare hull weighs 75 pounds, so I have saved a few ounces by making composited (for example, thin marine plywood bonded to rigid urethane foam) pieces for it. Is the weight saving practical? Well, it will increase bouyancy if the boat capsizes, but the existing flotation tanks did quite well when my brother and I were playing with the boat as kids. No, I admit it, I just wanted to see if I could fabricate these parts the way I wished!

Inland RV Center, In · 06-26-2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim A.

Andy, thanks for that information. Now I do not feel so guilty about running so often with a full or nearly full freshwater tank.

I just read through this whole thread again and I cannot help but having the feeling that many suffer from my own problem. That is, thinking how much fun it would be to build lighter and better with weight reduction only a nice excuse for doing the work. I am presently restoring a riveted aluminum rowboat built by my father in about 1950. It is 9 1/2' long, all rounded in shape, and a great accessory for our Airstream. The bare hull weighs 75 pounds, so I have saved a few ounces by making composited (for example, thin marine plywood bonded to rigid urethane foam) pieces for it. Is the weight saving practical? Well, it will increase bouyancy if the boat capsizes, but the existing flotation tanks did quite well when my brother and I were playing with the boat as kids. No, I admit it, I just wanted to see if I could fabricate these parts the way I wished!

There are many things that could be done. The question is the cost. Will the retail customer pay for the composite costs? I don't think so.

Traveling with a "full" tank of water, is a must for two reasons.

First, it lowers the center of gravity.

Secondly, blow a heater hose in the middle of no place. All you need is some duct tape to fix the split hose, "plus water." Ah, where oh where would you get that water?

Should this happen, do not tighten the radiator cap and shut the AC off.

It's amazing how many miles you can travel until you can get a hose, just because you have duct tape, "and" lots of water.

You can fret at home.

When you tow your Airstream, do like the boy scouts do.

"Be prepared."

Andy

overlander63 · 06-26-2007, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Start at the west coast and go to the east coast, with the typical 60 gallons of water on board and nothing else. That payload is 480 pounds.

Duplicate the trip with "NO" water on board. You will find the difference in fuel mileage to be absolutely insignificant.
Andy

I can back Andy up on this. Mileage towing our Argosy 20 was 10. Mileage towing our 31' Sovereign was...10. If anything, mileage was slightly better towing the Sovereign.
I like lightweight stuff like counters, beause that means I can bring more toys without overloading.

Minnie's Mate · 06-26-2007, 01:23 PM

I would tend to agree with Andy...fancy that Andy, you have more than one person on a thread that actually agrees with you

and isn't trying to but heads with you

...anyway, unless you are borderline on power in the tow vehicle, you are not really going to see much difference in fuel economy (talk about oxymorons when it comes to towing) with weight reduction of a few hundred pounds. If you have sufficient torque and hp's

you won't notice the difference in weight in the tow vehicle.

The place you might run into a problem with an older, and some later models, is over loading your axles. Again this is Andy's area of expertise not mine. If you load to much stuff or build too heavy of a frame, you may over load your axles or lead to shortened life of the axles.

One example of this is the Quicksilver Bambi. I think with full tanks you could only carry maybe 50 lbs of supplies and other stuff. I believe I read the newer Bambies now have the Canadian axle that give you more total gross vehicle weight loaded.

Tim A. · 06-26-2007, 01:27 PM

Andy's "be prepared" reason for the full tank is why we run that way. I just thought it was my paranoia about being stuck without water (for any number of reasons), but now I feel really good about it. Thanks, Andy!

Andy is also right about cost for a retail customer. Many of the changes we have made to our Airstream have only been possible because it has not been necessary to pay for my labor.

doorgunner · 06-26-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

With any aircraft, weight is "extrememly" important.

NOT SO WITH AN AIRSTREAM TRAILER.

Andy

I agree with the gross weight issue. I'm interested in increasing the "useful Load" you know- beer and meat and a few other things, UAV's, unicycles, grill ,stuff like that ! My 73 is pretty light, can't see loosing much weight there but the 86 is a pig. Lets see, off a few solid wood doors replace with curtains, hum translates to 6 porterhouses and a couple suitcases of cold ones! Which means your time on site increases, it's all good. lol even as I type this my new foam core construction box for my Q-100 Weber is on the cutting table. I'll start another thread on that next week. And composites are way too much money! DG

sos10 · 06-28-2007, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

The type construction of an Airstream trailer is semi-monocoque, which means that the "shell" is load bearing.

It does not mean that an Airstream flys like an aircraft.

With any aircraft, weight is "extrememly" important.

NOT SO WITH AN AIRSTREAM TRAILER.

Start at the west coast and go to the east coast, with the typical 60 gallons of water on board and nothing else. That payload is 480 pounds.

Duplicate the trip with "NO" water on board. You will find the difference in fuel mileage to be absolutely insignificant.

Unless considerable mountain towing is on the agenda, towing an empty or fully loaded Airstream trailer over a long distance will make almost zero difference in fuel mileage.

That information is based on a study of over 100,000 miles of testing.

Andy

I agree that if towing on flat roads, the difference in mpg will be small, but mountain driving and stop and go driving will make the difference much more relevant if the weight drops and when towing with the same vehicle.

But.. if the trailer is that much lighter so it can be towed safely by a smaller/ lighter vehicle, a more fuel efficient vehicle.. then the mpg numbers will change much more.

IMHO I think every Airstream could weight 1000 pounds less and still have the same quality (or better if more modern material were used)