Getting ready for the freeze-Winterize

[eastendmary]

oops, just realized I hadn't read all the posts, will do so before asking anymore questions...

[cru-in]

Good Afternoon All,

How do you all handle winterizing the Black Tank Flush?

or do you just not worry about it?

Thanks
Dan

[Silvr_Bullet]

Originally Posted by cru-in

Good Afternoon All,

How do you all handle winterizing the Black Tank Flush?

or do you just not worry about it?

Thanks
Dan

I try and blow it dry with air, I don’t think there is much else you can do with it, maybe someone else may have another solution. I have done it this way for several years, knock on wood no problems.

[OTRA15]

I assume by "blow it dry with air" you mean that you hook up a compressed air line to the separate intake for the black tank flush system.

If air replaces the water in that flush line, including its spray jet nozzles inside the black tank, why would you feel the need to "knock on wood?"



Of course, the black tank also has to be emptied afterwards.

Peter

[Silvr_Bullet]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

I assume by "blow it dry with air" you mean that you hook up a compressed air line to the separate intake for the black tank flush system.

If air replaces the water in that flush line, including its spray jet nozzles inside the black tank, why would you feel the need to "knock on wood?"



Of course, the black tank also has to be emptied afterwards.

Peter

I have read from some on this forum that their spray wands stopped functioning for reasons they aren’t aware of, that’s why I say ‘knock on wood’. I hope this addresses your concern. Have a nice evening.

[OTRA15]

Thanks for the clarification. Do you know if your black tank flush line is entirely blocked up, and thus not functional at all?

When you put compressed air in it, is there any minimal air flow, or does the compressor shut off because the line is absolutely full at the designated air pressure? That is a possibility I had not considered. Hard to believe that air at ~40 PSI would not flow, at least through some partially open orifices in the spray heads inside the tank, especially in a 2017 trailer. [IMO]

Thanks,

Peter

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by Silvr_Bullet

I try and blow it dry with air, I don’t think there is much else you can do with it, maybe someone else may have another solution. I have done it this way for several years, knock on wood no problems.

In the past, when using RV antifreeze, I have attached a 2 foot length of hose (with a male fitting) and hold it vertically and put in a cup of antifreeze. I use my mouth to blow the antifreeze through the sprayer firing. It works well. I did the same with the 'city water' inlet.

[GettinAway]

What’s the consensus on when blowing the lines only. (Plus RV antifreeze in the drains)
Does everyone leave sink/shower taps open or closed? I don’t like leaving the low point drains open, but if there’s any residual moisture in the taps could that crack anything when freezing. I’ve always pumped RV antifreeze throughout the system before. We will be out for several weeks in Feb and I don’t want to hassle with removing the RV antifreeze when I get to Florida.

[WaLee]

I’m in the NorCal foothills. Things only get real cold for a couple months, but i still blow the lines and run antifreeze. It’s easy and cheap insurance. Only takes a few minutes to drain and clear the lines if we want to use the trailer and go to Napa or the coast.

[jcanavera]

I've used RV anti-freeze my entire life of pulling hard sided trailers. Only had one bad experience which was a low quality no name anti-freeze. That stuff melted the water bladder in the flushing system of my toilet. Since then I've stuck with either brand name RV antifreeze like Prestone or antifreeze sold by companies that are big in the industry. Current names that I have used in the past have been FVP and Splash brands that are available in many outlets including Menards.

https://www.menards.com/main/tools/a...6526578695.htm

https://www.menards.com/main/tools/a...6526578642.htm

Just finished yesterday and after I get the outside washed tomorrow, we go back into indoor storage for the winter. Just got all the temperature sensitive foods and liquids out today, emptied what little was in the holding tanks and steam cleaned the carpet Sunday.

Jack

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by GettinAway

What’s the consensus on when blowing the lines only. (Plus RV antifreeze in the drains)
Does everyone leave sink/shower taps open or closed? I don’t like leaving the low point drains open, but if there’s any residual moisture in the taps could that crack anything when freezing. I’ve always pumped RV antifreeze throughout the system before. We will be out for several weeks in Feb and I don’t want to hassle with removing the RV antifreeze when I get to Florida.

Hi

The gotcha with blowing the lines with air is that you never really get that last drop out of the system. You can blow for hours on end (at the capacity of a compressor that will run on 120V 15A circuit) and it's not all coming out.

If you have a modern "PEX pipe" trailer what's left is not likely to create issues. To be double sure, leave the drains open. They will dump some water.

How do I know they will dump some water? I closed them up after blowing things out for a couple days. The trailer went into storage. No problems with zero degree (F) temperatures. Pull the trailer out in the spring, go to check the valves .... hmmm .... it's closed. Open it and out comes maybe a half cup of water.

Bob

[OTRA15]

When winterizing with air only, one should take go around the trailer and open each and every H/C water outlet -- one at a time [faucets/toilets/spray wands/showers interior and exterior/low point drains/hot water drain/etc].

After you have done it once, go around and do it again, including all the low point drains.

It is entirely possible to eliminate almost all water from the supply plumbing.

When the trailer came off the assembly line, was there any water in any of the lines?

No.

Why not take the time to go back to that pristine state?



The pump, pump filter and supply line from the tank, have to be done also, including freeing up the supply line end at the pump, and blowing by mouth back into the line until you feel no resistance to your breath. Drain the water tank.

Winterizing the waste side of the plumbing is a separate process.

People tend to over-think this whole process, including inventing the need to use antifreeze. Did it come from the factory with antifreeze in the lines?



'nuff said . . .

Wally probably never used antifreeze, by the way. [IMO]

Peter

[CruizinDux]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

When winterizing with air only, one should take go around the trailer and open each and every H/C water outlet -- one at a time [faucets/toilets/spray wands/showers interior and exterior/low point drains/hot water drain/etc].

After you have done it once, go around and do it again, including all the low point drains.

It is entirely possible to eliminate almost all water from the supply plumbing.

When the trailer came off the assembly line, was there any water in any of the lines?

No.

Why not take the time to go back to that pristine state?



The pump, pump filter and supply line from the tank, have to be done also, including freeing up the supply line end at the pump, and blowing by mouth back into the line until you feel no resistance to your breath. Drain the water tank.

Winterizing the waste side of the plumbing is a separate process.

People tend to over-think this whole process, including inventing the need to use antifreeze. Did it come from the factory with antifreeze in the lines?



'nuff said . . .

Wally probably never used antifreeze, by the way. [IMO]

Peter

Well put Peter. My only add is listen to your trailer and it's gurgles. You'll learn the spots that need more attention.

I discovered that JC had plumbed a couple of lines near the lp drain so it was more than a little up hill. Re-worked the slope in a couple of spots...looking for quiet. Raise the nose all the way and lower the nose all the way when doing the fwd/rear lp's. I also sort of pump the exterior end of the lp tubes. Index finger to cap the drain for a count of 5...repeat until dry and quiet.

Pay special attention to the BW check valve. They have a long history of retaining moisture and cracking. They are never in an easy place to replace
B

[cru-in]

"Pay special attention to the BW check valve. They have a long history of retaining moisture and cracking. They are never in an easy place to replace
B"

What do you suggest for the BW Check Valve?

[GettinAway]

Well, you guys have convinced me to just go ahead and run some antifreeze into the lines. I ran the compressor for a very long time, opening each faucet hot and cold one at a time. I could hear gurgling every now and then so I know there’s still a little water in there somewhere. I will blow out the black tank rinse out valve. I totally forgot about it.
Thx

[OTRA15]

Did you include every low-point drain, and the water heater drain, in your routine, and do it all twice? [See Post #472]

Yes, this takes a while, but no more than an hour if you are focused on the task IMO.

Peter

PS -- Post #472 should have started with the assumption that a careful gravity-drain, with all the faucets/LP drains/etc. are open, so water that can flow downhill, is done first.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

One useful starting point (for any of these processes):

Empty out the fresh water tank at your last campsite. Dump the black and gray tanks (and then close those valves). Open up everything else and let it all drain. All the low points and all the faucets. Leave it in this state and drive home. All the shake rattle and roll on the trip will do a pretty good job getting *most* of the water out.

=====

Blowing air out and how well it goes depends a bit on the compressor you use. Most of us look at a compressor in terms of how many PSI it will get to. For blowing up a tire, that's what counts. The other rating on a compressor is how many CFM it will deliver at this or that pressure level.

The pressure that counts for CFM delivery is the pressure at the output port on the compressor. Put 500' of hose on it an the pressure at the end of the hose will be *very* different than the pressure at the compressor. You don't want a long hose for high CFM delivery.

Pushing a lot of CFM takes a lot of power. In a factory the shop compressor likely is wired into some pretty heavy circuits. In your garage it likely has to plug into the wall. In addition, you can change the basic design so you get a lot of pressure or so you get a lot of CFM. A fan delivers a lot of CFM, but not much pressure ....

One way around this is putting a big storage tank on the compressor. If you have a cute little portable, it might not have any tank at all. That big hulk that rolls on wheels could have a fairly large tank on it. To be useful, the tank needs to get up to pressure. That means a "wait for it" approach when blowing lines. You wait for the motor to stop (signaling the tank is full) *before* you start blowing this or that line.

Once the pressure has dropped in the tank, the flow rate drops as well. Flow rate is what gets the water out. Letting it run for an hour at a low rate may not do as much as running a number of times at a higher rate. You need to stop and let the tank re-fill. How long you blow and how long you wait depends a lot on your setup.

If your compressor does not have a tank, one alternative is a long hose (yes that seems weird). The hose pressurizes just like a tank. When you start the air going, you get a bit of a blast. It's not as much as with a tank, but at least it's something ....

Bob

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

...
If your compressor does not have a tank, one alternative is a long hose (yes that seems weird). The hose pressurizes just like a tank. When you start the air going, you get a bit of a blast. It's not as much as with a tank, but at least it's something ....

You may not need a long hose with your portable compressor. The PEX plumbing system in the airstream acts like a pressure tank and when all of the faucets, etc. are closed the pressure will build in the pipes and allow you to open one faucet and then the next one fairly quickly.

[Silvr_Bullet]

As part of winterizing do not over look roof caulking especially if your trailer is not under cover. I had mine checked today, I do my own water and sewer systems winterizing but am not comfortable climbing on the roof and can’t sufficiently inspect all sides and angles of a/c and vents from a ladder.

[CruizinDux]

Originally Posted by cru-in

"Pay special attention to the BW check valve. They have a long history of retaining moisture and cracking. They are never in an easy place to replace
B"

What do you suggest for the BW Check Valve?

I suspected my bw cv was acting up...maybe the spring had failed. I was having trouble pushing air thru it. Key noise, some gurgling which is not normal. Seemed to be working fine on the start of a long trip,but had a quick and unplanned otr winteriztion. The next morning was fine so, whew!!!. Nrxt stop at CW, bought a small AF hand pump & some AF, with a hose to connect to the male BW fitting. The weather warmed so put it all away. Two rinses later, the floods began. Never got a chance to use the hand pump/w/ AF.

So to answer your question...swap it for brass!!! my install is on the 29 footers thread...but i have finished the cabinet access cut with a vent screen to help with warm air curculation vrom a portable heater. Lots of plumbing in this area on a 20.


Or buy a small camco? hand pump with AF. For use sith BW/cv only.

To touch on U-Bobs comments. Normally I use a Rigid dual tank compressor, but on numerous occasions when it was acting up, have opted for an old Craftsman 11vac inflator. works fine, Just takes a little longer.

However i used to travel with an aged coleman 12vdc and have successfully used used it otr on about 4 occasions. I now travel with the 110vac inflator. I just think the 110vac works a bit better, and we rarely boondock so have 110vac available.

Also FWIW, our 20 is much less complicated than the longer units. I take my time, work f to b, b to f, up/down....repeat again.. have a beer, repeat as required ( the winterization) until quiet.

A!so i like U-B's advice on opening the lps and taking a drive. Also helps to open the faucets and the remove the HWH drain plug then too.

B

ps, with my senior mind a check list to check off helps and i always start with the pump and then blow the water back to the fw tank. I use a hose with a 1/2 make thread to accomplish that. Hard to get doen to the pump house level.

pss, i have added a diverter valve at the pump but it's got to be a short wnterization lead time or exrteme weather before that is my path.