Why are Honda Generators quiet?

[Silvertwinkie]

I would guess muffler and partly cause it's an inverter generator. I have the propane converted 1000 (cause I have a 15k btu a/c unit the 2400 wouldn't power) and for what I use it for, it's been remarkable. We had a major storm here back in August where the power in most of the town was out for about 4-5 days. That little generator powered my fridge, TV, a fan and a light. Was on for nearly 18 hours those 5 days and I still haven't used a 20lb LP tank, and have 27 hours on the first tank total (half to 3/4 rated load).

Ditto the comments on the Yamaha inverter gens...my 1000 I am very pleased with!

[HiHoAgRV]

Honda has always had a reputation for building mechanically quiet motors. Without proper clearances the reciprocating components (rod, wrist pin, piston...) can make a clatter. Their OHC motors have less moving parts than a rocker arm style, thus less stuff to clank and click. On these new gensets they have done a great job muffling the exhaust AND the intake. I have a contractors unit with a 8 HP Briggs with a few mods to reduce the exhaust and intake noise (made a huge difference) but the engine still rattles like a bucket of bolts.

[JimGolden]

I just looked at an EU1000, and Eu2000, and an EU3000 today at the new Camping World in Winchester, Va.

The 3000 is the one I'm mainly looking at.

I picked it up. I could lift it into a truck bed, but it's a hoss.

I'm kind of going back and forth between the Yamaha 3000 with boost and the Honda 3000, vs. a pair of the 2000's. It's basically $150 cheaper to buy the Honda 3000 than a pair of 2000's.

We'll see. I'm still reading what you guys say about them. But, it's looking to me like I couldn't go wrong with any of these three routes.

[SilverRanger]

Jim,
Remember, that was likely dry weight. They'll be a bit heavier with any fuel in the tank. Right now I'm leaning to towards the two EU2000i's because I won't be using them connected together most of the time. This has been a very infomative thread.

Decisions...

[bhayden]

The eu2000 in parallel has some great advantages. If you think you'll only need one unit 90% of the time then I'd go this route. In fact, I'd get one first and see if you really need the second! For a trailer 24' or less I wouldn't be surprised if that's all you ever need.

My bet would be that the AC on a 31' Excella, especially down south will require more umpf than a single eu2000 can deliver. If you think you'll be using both generators more than 50% of the time then I'd be looking at a different solution. The Honda 3000 is going to be a chore to move around. If you plan to leave it in a pick-up bed most of the time then maybe it's not such a big deal but I'd count on having ramps and a wheel set-up or two people to hoist it around.

If you're looking at a propane conversion then factor in the price of the conversion kit X2 plus the hassle of the extra hose connections. That's what really turned me off on the idea of using two in parallel although it would definitely have advantages in many situations.

Don't forget about the Yamaha 2800. At 70# it's still portable and the noise level while definitely more than the Hondas won't get you kicked out of any campgrounds. Not much more than a single eu2000. Certainly WAY cheaper than two plus the parallel kit plus 2X for propane conversion.

Another consideration is maintenance on two generators. I don't camp much (at all) during the winter but the generators are much happier if they're used at least once a month. Gas goes "stale" pretty quickly and these highly tuned motors (both Yamaha and Honda) really don't like bad gas. You also double up on oil changes, cleaning the spark arrestor, etc.

-Bernie

[JimGolden]

You guys all make good points. I see pros and cons to all of the different gensets.

I will have to read up on the 2800 Yamaha. I don't know much about it. Same goes for the 2400. I just figured the next logical jump above the 2000 would be the 3000; especially the one with the boost. But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.

The two in parallel does make a lot of sense. And truth be known, I've only needed a generator once so far.

I'll actually be powering a 34' Avion with it. And while it's got a 13,500 a/c in it now; I'm going to replace it with a 15,000 when it finally kicks the bucket. So I want to make sure I have enough oomph. But that being said, I'd see me really needing it more in the cold than in the warm. I could be wrong though. I just want to make sure I have more than enough rather than less than enough.

I'm a pretty strong guy, but 70lbs on a rainy night sounds better than 170!

I do have to admit, I'm really intrigued by solar. We did some boondocking a couple weeks ago and the furnace seems to pull either 6 or 11 amp hours when it runs (I'd have to go out and look at the scale, but it's just past the notch). That's by far the biggest draw. So let's say the furnace ran four hours from dark to sunup, that's 44 amp hours. How much would a roof full of solar replenish during the day? I'll have to brush up on my electrical engineering to correlate all this. The gauge in the trailer reads amp hours, but I'm not sure how that equates to watts. Anyway, would the solar be able to make up for the loss?

The only other issue is wifey's hair dryer. That takes a lot That and the microwave.

Hey, if we wanted to rough it, we'd have a tent

Thanks for the advice guys!

[5cats]

One neat accessory for the Yamaha 3000 iSE/B is the wireless remote start kit.

OK, $431 smacks is rich, but how cool would it be to light it up with the push of a button?

Cheers,
-jd.

[bhayden]

Jim,
Sounds like you'd do well to get the Honda eu2000. One thing to ask is during the summer when you think you'd need the A/C how often will you not be able to plug into shore power? There's a good chance the eu2000 will power the 13,000BTU AC and since the new units are probably more efficient it may work fine for that too. Worst case is you need to buy a 2nd eu2000 and the parallel kit but if you're going to keep two trailers then this has some obvious benifits too. And moving 50#, even if you have to do it twice is easier than the 70# ef2800 and way easier than the Honda 3000. Not only lighter but the eu2000 is so compact that you'll end up taking it along on many trips where you'd decide the 3000 just wasn't worth the hassle (sorry honey, use a towel ).

The only downside is the limited run time on the eu2000. Even with it's miserly fuel consumption the tank is only thimble size. That's easily remedied though by having it converted to dual fuel (propane and gas).

It's really pretty hard to go wrong with this choice since even if you decide you want something different (which you won't know without trying) the resale on the Hondas is so good you'll get almost all your money back.

-Bernie

[Gene]

Why not have a 2 KW and a 1 KW generator in parallel instead of two 2 KW's? You save some money, get 3 KW, and don't have to lift two 70 lb. units.

As for solar, PV panels are rated differently, so there's no one answer. You get what you pay for. I understand on a cloudy day, efficiency is reduced around 30%. To get watts, volts x amps. I assume, Jim, the fan pulls 6 or 11 amps at 12 v., but it doesn't run all the time unless it's really, really cold. Assuming 10 amps (easy number) and the furnace fan runs 10 hours out of 24, 12 x 10 is 120 watts and 10 hours makes 1.2 KW. Assuming you have my PV unit, rated at 96 watts, if it gets full sun for 10 hours (hard to do in winter when it's snowing), that's .96 KW, so you lose .24 KW each day while boondocking. That's not counting lights—on longer in winter—water pump, and all the other toys. I figure the generator comes out on the 2nd day, or whenever you want to microwave something (a small microwave is .7 or .8 KW, but 12 v. ones are really expensive—maybe $300 vs., less than $50 for a 120 v— so you'll need 120 v.).

Solution for drying hair—stick head next to heat register—you get two for one. Also, medicate wife before making that suggestion.

There are 12 v. hairdryers, but they probably have to run a lot longer and will eat battery storage.

Gene

[DFord79]

Originally Posted by azflycaster

Maybe the Honda's and Yamaha's are not really that quiet.
Maybe we have all just lost most of our hearing from those obnoxious generators that people buy for a few hundred bucks and run them in a campground.

Two weeks ago we were camped in the mountains and this SOB (you decide) pulls out this 6K contractor generator (7:00pm), starts it up and leaves! He took his family to town (45 minutes each way) to have diner and decided it would be a great time to charge his battery. Everyone puts up with this for about 30 minutes and someone goes and shuts it off. You could hear the cheers from all over the woods.

Next day they take off for town again (lunch) and pulls the same stunt. This time he returns to find the spark plug missing. Always have the right tools for the job!

Think he got the message?

I went to Shucks auto parts a few days ago to get a headlight for my wifes car. There it was low and behold...of all things....a new Airstream Safari settin in the Shucks parking lot ...woo hoo....a..O NOOOOOOOOOOOO....Just as I was headed in the front door...out comes the happy owner of a brand new Champion 4000 watt geverator. Loads it in the back of the truck....happy AS stream owners with a brand new genny to power their AS...and it was ONLY $299. I just had to ask....are YOU guys going to used that boondocking? ...."We camp in a lot of state parks and need power....this is the best deal we could find". OMG.....80dle a 7 yards.....I want to be in the next forest....from where they camp. But it was ONLY 299....just think ...it will keep the Bears away tho.

[SilverRanger]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

"Why not have a 2 KW and a 1 KW generator in parallel instead of two 2 KW's? You save some money, get 3 KW, and don't have to lift two 70 lb. units. "


"Solution for drying hair—stick head next to heat register—you get two for one. Also, medicate wife before making that suggestion."
Gene

Gene,
I could be wrong but, in my brief research for the right generator, I believe I read that the two connected generators have to be the same wattage.


We forgot the hair dryer when we went to the international in Perry, GA this summer. I suggested to my wife that she should take a 5 minute bike ride. NOT a permanent solution, but it worked that day.

[Valhalla2Go]

We have a 26' foot 68' and a 27' 08' both with decent size AC units. After considerable boondocking experiences across the US in a variety of weather, we have found that 1 Honda 2000 has been sufficient for 99% of our travel needs - mostly to charge the batteries back up to snuff + the occasional use of a higher wattage device - hair dryer, microwave, toaster oven, power tool, samaritan jump start, etc.

With 2 fantastic fans, judicious use of the awnings, and parked in the best shade possible, neither trailer gets hot enough to warrant the AC when off shore power. Now of course, when docked at a formal campsite or RV park, we go hog wild on the AC and all other "free" devices that come with your daily fees.

The JC installed solar panels on the 08' have provided 2 months of 24/7 unattended power (upper midwest August-September with moderate sunshine) to run both fans and any other trickle users without draining the batteries below 70%. The fans with both exhaust vents open - bathroom and shower, keeps the air flowing, keeps out moisture and pests, reduces mold/midlew, and keeps the trailer fairly cool when you arrive and kick on the AC.

The Honda 2000 is easy to tote in and out of the truck bed, never disturbs the neighbors (or farmers whose field you are borrowing for the night), runs for 9 hours on $.42 of gas (we top her off in the bed when filling truck up)
, and comes in handy for many many power needs away from the trailer - picnics, remote construction projects, home back-up power, etc.

If we ever opted to boondock for an extended period in the southwest in the dead heat of summer, we can always buy a 2nd unit and run parallell to keep our cool. Or even share a unit with like minded travellers when called for. Great life-time investment.

[JimGolden]

You guys all make good points. Makes my head hurt. The more I read the less I know

Well, at least I've narrowed it down to Honda or Yamaha

[Gene]

"The more I read the less I know"

Now you're like everyone else.

Maybe you can't hook up two generators of different ratings. If it were a good idea, I suppose we'd have heard about it already. Maybe it's about inverse retained zapistry.

Gene

[bhayden]

The generators have to be a match to parallel. Remember you not only have to keep current roughly equal between the two but the output has to be in phase; that's the tricky part.

One eu2000 will do a lot and it's a lot easier to lug around than anything bigger. I'm having a hard time believing 9 hours on 42 cents worth of gas (less than a pint). They're rated One Tankful (1.1 gal), 4 hrs. @ rated load 15 hrs. @ 1/4 load. Maybe you meant $4.20; and you're not really towing a 68' trailer around are you

For typical camping use the run time should be adaquate unless you're needing to run the AC overnight. The only area where I think they come up a little short is as a home back-up unit. But they would get you by (assuming you're not running the home whole house AC unit) albeit with a fair amount of plugging and unplugging of refridgerators and such. Then again if you have two in parallel you're golden.

As a home backup the Yamaha ef2800 really shines (sadly we've had more occasion to use it in that capacity than camping ); refridgerator, freezer, sump pump, blower for natural gas furnace and lights. Microwave requires unplugging something to make sure they don't all try to kick on at once. Run time averaged ~ 8 hours per tankfull (3 gal); about 1/2 a tank overnight. It's rated CONTINUOUS OPERATION AT 1/2 RATED LOAD12.9 hrs. It's also rated 5.5 h.p. vs. the 3.5 for the Honda eu2000. That additional capacity means lower rpm for any given load whidh results in real world noise levels almost as quit as the Honda. Pretty much in every way it fills the bill as a step in between the eu2000 and the MUCH larger eu3000.

Dry Weights
eu2000 46.3
ef2800 68
eu3000 134

[malett]

While the generators and/or inverters may have enough reserve to start your AC, you forget the weakest link.

The wiring is sized for a certain ampere at a rated voltage. Assuming that AC is rated 25 Amps starting and 10 Amps running. (Actually the starting current is a big huge number until the motor starts turning: time delay fuses !)
The wiring connectors in our campers are not to aircraft standards and become lose and corroded. Now we have this marginal generator that has to start this AC or whatever with 110 V at the generator. As it goes through the connection from the generator to the power cable through a junction box to breaker panel to the AC I came across a connector thats a little loose so we lost a couple of volts and now my current flow has increased slightly to maintain the same amount power to the AC. We guess that it can handle this extra although I start heating up at the bad connection a little. Whoa heat tends to make me become a little more resistive to current flow so a I drop the voltage a little bit more and the current has to go a little higher and the connection gets hotter.........

Do i see a pattern developing ?

As far as generators versus inverters goes, it is easier to maintain 60hz with inverters, this is essential when running motors as loads. or computers.

Inverters are less efficient because of the additional conversion taking place which generates heat.

Additional, the generator/inverters are more expensive.

I can feel for those who don't like the noise and wish I could afford to by a couple of the Yamaha's or Honda's, but I can't so please don't steal my spark plug.

[TedFry]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Why not have a 2 KW and a 1 KW generator in parallel instead of two 2 KW's? You save some money, get 3 KW, and don't have to lift two 70 lb. units.

As for solar, PV panels are rated differently, so there's no one answer. You get what you pay for. I understand on a cloudy day, efficiency is reduced around 30%. To get watts, volts x amps. I assume, Jim, the fan pulls 6 or 11 amps at 12 v., but it doesn't run all the time unless it's really, really cold. Assuming 10 amps (easy number) and the furnace fan runs 10 hours out of 24, 12 x 10 is 120 watts and 10 hours makes 1.2 KW. Assuming you have my PV unit, rated at 96 watts, if it gets full sun for 10 hours (hard to do in winter when it's snowing), that's .96 KW, so you lose .24 KW each day while boondocking. That's not counting lights—on longer in winter—water pump, and all the other toys. I figure the generator comes out on the 2nd day, or whenever you want to microwave something (a small microwave is .7 or .8 KW, but 12 v. ones are really expensive—maybe $300 vs., less than $50 for a 120 v— so you'll need 120 v.).

Solution for drying hair—stick head next to heat register—you get two for one. Also, medicate wife before making that suggestion.

There are 12 v. hairdryers, but they probably have to run a lot longer and will eat battery storage.

Gene

With generators that you have no control over frequency, you have to have generators that are exactly the same in order to parallel them. With inverter generators, matching frequency or synchronizing the generators is not an issue: the parallel cables "lock" them electrically. The issue is load sharing between the generators. Every generator has a rated "droop" in frequency between no load and full load. If the droop is not the same on paralled generators, they will not share the load evenly. When you have generators in parallel that you can control the frequency on (like the hundreds of generators in parallel on the US power grid), the load on the generator is changed by changing its frequency setting.

In the DC world, 1 amp at 1 volt = 1 Watt. In the AC world, you also have to take into account "Power Factor", which is 1 if the voltage and current are "in phase", but becomes less than 1 when there is a phase difference. Most AC systems run at a .8 or .9 PF, but for our calculations, we can assume 1.
An appliance running at 100 watts for 10 hours consumes 1000 WattHours, not a KW. A KW is 1000 Watts, a measure of Power, not Energy.

[Gene]

I'm beginning to feel electrocuted. Somewhere a long time ago I heard about WattHours, but apparently it didn't stick.

But what about the furnace/hairdryer? Did I get that right? Not having much hair, I haven't tried it, but I'll suggest it to Barb.

Gene

[Beginner]

And here all this time I thought controlling the output current/load on a AC generator (really an alternator) was accomplished by changing the excitor voltage/current on the armature.
Beginner

[DataMover]

I have have an 88 345 MH and and may have to replace the generator (6.5 Onan). Do you think I could run 3 Honda EU2000s to give the the 6kw for two roof airs?
Bob