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Gringo · 09-21-2014, 08:17 AM

We've had the trailer three years now, but this weekend is the first time we've taken it offroad and camped away from any hookups. I'd only used the Shurflo pump when winterizing, never needed it hooked up to KOA water. Now in our third day offgrid, and I have a question.

The pump will run just fine, for a minute or so. Or all day, maybe, if we just use it sporadically. But from time to time it just stops. First time it happened I grabbed the voltmeter and checked at the converter and had power and a good fuse there. When I plugged the fuse back in, ( the 20 amp on the converter) the pump started up. I thought it must be corrosion or loose fuse contact, although it looked clean. Pump ran fine through some light, intermittent use. Then stopped again. I tried reseating fuse, no joy. Still had voltage there. So I opened cabinet and checked power at the other fuse, the one right at the pump itself. I pulled the fuse out to check it, it was okay and there was power to it. Now I'm getting confused. Plugging the fuse back in, the pump came on. Briefly. Now I've determined that simply turning the pump switch on the monitor off, and then back on, or turning the monitor itself off and on, will let the pump run briefly. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Turning power off and then after a minute, back on and the pump will run for a short time?

lsbrodsky · 09-21-2014, 08:34 AM

Not sure of your problem, but the pump runs based on a pressure switch. If the pressure is high enough the pump stops. If you have a faucet open, though, the pressure should remain low enough to run the pump continuously unless you have a faulty pressure switch.
Larry

Gringo · 09-21-2014, 08:45 AM

thanks, not sure how to check that, but if I can find it I'll give it a try. Should be on the pump itself, I think.

Protagonist · 09-21-2014, 10:33 AM

If all is working properly, the pump should only run when you open a faucet. If it runs at other times, that means you have a leak somewhere. If you can't find any leaks, it's possible that the check valve that prevents water from running backward through the pump is defective, allowing water to drip back into the fresh tank until the pressure drops far enough for the pump to come on again.

Gringo · 09-21-2014, 01:26 PM

No, that's the total opposite of my issue with this one. I must have explained it badly.

This pump stops, and doesn't start again until after I disconnect power to it and then reconnect it. It pumps fine when it pumps. No obvious reason for it to just stop. And then restart after I check a fuse or turn the power off and then back on.

Protagonist · 09-21-2014, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gringo

No, that's the total opposite of my issue with this one. I must have explained it badly.

This pump stops, and doesn't start again until after I disconnect power to it and then reconnect it. It pumps fine when it pumps. No obvious reason for it to just stop. And then restart after I check a fuse or turn the power off and then back on.

So opening a faucet doesn't cause the pump to run, and nothing else seems to be wrong with it. I understand now. But that's a new one in my experience, and I have no clue what the answer is, unless it is the pressure switch. Which is probably internal and you can't see it without disassembling the pump.

AnnArborBob · 09-21-2014, 03:01 PM

A new pump costs less than $100 (not including installation labor which sounds like you are capable of handling.) If I were having your issues, I'd simply get a new pump and see if that solves the problem.

Gringo · 09-21-2014, 06:00 PM

you're right. I'm not accustomed to being in the USA where I can drive down to the nearest distributor and buy a pump. That's a great idea. It's a shame we waited three years to try to use the onboard water setup. I have to wonder if there might be a vent issue with the water tank, for example. If air couldn't get into the tank, would it stop the pump? Or would it keep spinning but not producing?

This is the Shurflo Smart Sensor 4.0 pump. Supposedly microprocessor controlled. But it wouldn't take much time at all to replace it. Very acccessible.

Jim Flower · 09-21-2014, 07:23 PM

My pump has behaved in a similar fashion a few times and after doing all the stuff that you have done with the addition of buying a new pump, ( now a spare) I fiddled with the on/off switch a bunch and the pump started up and worked perfectly. So my fix is a non fix but I have water. Good enough! Jim

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AnnArborBob · 09-22-2014, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gringo

you're right. I'm not accustomed to being in the USA where I can drive down to the nearest distributor and buy a pump. That's a great idea. It's a shame we waited three years to try to use the onboard water setup. I have to wonder if there might be a vent issue with the water tank, for example. If air couldn't get into the tank, would it stop the pump? Or would it keep spinning but not producing?

This is the Shurflo Smart Sensor 4.0 pump. Supposedly microprocessor controlled. But it wouldn't take much time at all to replace it. Very acccessible.

The onboard fresh water tank does have a vent located near the fill port. If the vent was blocked, that might impact the pump's performance but I would think the pump would run and try to pump for awhile before burning out. The symptom you described of the pump shutting off is not consistent with how I understand the pump is supposed to work. An easy way to check the function of the vent is to try and fill the fresh water tank. If the vent is blocked you will have a lot more trouble filling the tank (resistance and splash back, etc..) than you would if it was working properly.

VTSmitty · 09-22-2014, 06:41 AM

We had the same problem with our Shurflo Smart Sensor. It would work for a while, but if you turned off the water and then turned it on again the pump wouldn't kick in. Similar situation to yours, where it hadn't been used in a while. We swapped it out for a new pump, never had another problem. Pumps are cheap, and easy to replace.

teagues · 09-22-2014, 06:47 AM

Could this be because of a loose ground connection at the pump?

Gringo · 09-22-2014, 08:13 AM

I didn't see a separate ground connection, but will have another look.

And I did notice that it seemed unneccessarily troublesome to fill the tank before leaving the KOA for the boonies. I had the hose stuck about 4-6" down the fill spout, and water shot out, well before it was full. I pulled some hose out and slowed it down, and managed to get several more gallons in. Maybe five more. Since I had never filled the tank before, and have never filled a different Airstream, I don't really know if this is normal or not.

I'm not yet to the point where I think that $250 for a plastic 12 volt water pump is "cheap". Especially Shurflos latest pride and joy that starts causing problems the first time we need to rely on it.

If I have to replace it, I think I would look into more basic models. This expensive one doesn't seem to be any quieter or work any better than a $ 75 pump without a microprocessor. Do you guys think Shurflo is superior to Flowjet?

.

AnnArborBob · 09-22-2014, 09:03 AM

Gringo, I don't have any specific recommendations for you regarding the brand or features of the pump you should consider for a replacement beyond suggesting that you get a variable speed pump rather than one that is simply "on or off." The variable speed pump which comes with contemporary AS' is much quieter than the "on/off" variety.

As far as the fresh water tank vent is concerned, I would be surprised if that was causing you issues with the pump shutting down, but it does sound to me like you have some blockage in the vent line which you should try to clear up. Mine has a little mesh screen over it which you would want to preserve to keep bugs out of the tank. Perhaps you could rig a hose from an air compressor to cover the hole and then blow out whatever obstruction might be there?

Good luck!

Foiled Again · 09-22-2014, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnArborBob

Gringo, I don't have any specific recommendations for you regarding the brand or features of the pump you should consider for a replacement beyond suggesting that you get a variable speed pump rather than one that is simply "on or off." The variable speed pump which comes with contemporary AS' is much quieter than the "on/off" variety.

As far as the fresh water tank vent is concerned, I would be surprised if that was causing you issues with the pump shutting down, but it does sound to me like you have some blockage in the vent line which you should try to clear up. Mine has a little mesh screen over it which you would want to preserve to keep bugs out of the tank. Perhaps you could rig a hose from an air compressor to cover the hole and then blow out whatever obstruction might be there?

Good luck!

Air has to vent out of the fresh tank as water goes in. The vent is about the size of a soda straw. If you have really good pressure going in, you might not be able to get enough air out fast enough. I NEVER put my hose down into the tank. ONE incident another Airstreamer had just scared the begeebers out of me. She overfilled her tank to such a point that it bowed up and broke her floor! So I sit there and hold the hose about 2 inches away from the fill port and let it rip. Air comes back out the vent and the fill port. Be happy that your hose blew itself out instead of the alternative. I've noted that a lot of campgrounds don't have real good water flow so it probably IS safe to put the hose down the pipe. I just choose not to.

Paula

Gringo · 09-22-2014, 09:31 AM

this already IS the new modern multi whatever pump they're putting in modern Airstreams. I don't see how anyone would call this quiet, if this is a typical installation. I note the pump is screwed down hard to the floor. I would have expected some vibration damping between it and the trailer floor. I cannot move, wiggle, or shake it. It's fastened securely and doesn't move. I owned a Fleetwood Jamboree Class C for about ten years, have had a succession of boats with Flojet and Shurflo pumps for washdowns, potable water, bait tanks, etc. and I presently own a catamaran with two water pumps, and this fancy "non pulsing" and " quiet" Smart Sensor one is easily as noisy as any of those. I can hear this one from 50 yards away.

TinTin · 09-22-2014, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

. She overfilled her tank to such a point that it bowed up and broke her floor!

Paula

Paula, do you suppose that report was an internet myth, hard to imagine it happening from line water pressure. When full, excess water will just flow out the in-spout.

I wonder if she froze a full freshwater tank ...

AnnArborBob · 09-22-2014, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gringo

this already IS the new modern multi whatever pump they're putting in modern Airstreams. I don't see how anyone would call this quiet, if this is a typical installation. I note the pump is screwed down hard to the floor. I would have expected some vibration damping between it and the trailer floor. I cannot move, wiggle, or shake it. It's fastened securely and doesn't move. I owned a Fleetwood Jamboree Class C for about ten years, have had a succession of boats with Flojet and Shurflo pumps for washdowns, potable water, bait tanks, etc. and I presently own a catamaran with two water pumps, and this fancy "non pulsing" and " quiet" Smart Sensor one is easily as noisy as any of those. I can hear this one from 50 yards away.

I'm not going to say that the stock pump in our 2014 AS is whisper quiet, but in general is is modestly unobtrusive when in use (shower, sink, toilet, etc...) I do note that on occasion if is not properly primed it will make a racket then quiet down after a few seconds as the water lines get purged of air.

Gringo · 09-22-2014, 10:04 AM

since you've also got a 27, perhaps your pump is in the same place as in our 2011 27FB Intl? Under the wardrobe, behind the swinging door with the LP alarm on it? Would you please just reach in there and see if you can wiggle the pump at all, or is it also firmly bolted to the wooden floor?
We've found so many quality control issues with this Airstream that it wouldn't surprise me to find out that either some rubber shock mounts were left off, or that someone ran the screws down too hard.

Siegmann · 09-22-2014, 10:16 AM

Gringo, regarding pump shut-down, try checking the filter at the pump for clogs. Regarding the noise, if you do not already have it, add a couple of feet of flexible braided tubing to both sides of the pump.