Frozen waste valves, broken handle.

[crazylev]

Greetings.

To end an otherwise excellent TG weekend campout by Lake Michigan, our last stop was the dump station.

Temperatures were below freezing a few nights but we left after a brief "warm-up".

I was aware that the valves and some of the plumbing are outside the AS, but didn't anticipate what was next.

The black tank valve was definitely frozen, but apparently not "hard" frozen, as I was able to get that valve open after some wrestling. Nothing exited the black tank though (at least 12 gallons in there).

I thought that I could back flush using my Flush-King, but when I went to retrieve that out of the bumper storage, that to was frozen. DOH.

I sprayed some WD40 on both sides of the blade and finally got that free.

The back flow method seemed to work, the tank emptied, and I rinsed it well. On to the gray valve. That was frozen as well, but it did finally open only after I broke one of the plastic wing things on the dump valve handle!

I back flushed the gray too.

A few questions: I think we will never camp knowing the temp might go below freezing, unless I build a heated enclosure of some type for the exposed plumbing.

The valves seemed to close normally.

1) Can you get replacement valve handles? And do they just screw on?

2) While monkeying around in the cold dealing with the valves, I noticed that my entire valve assembly turned slightly downward. My first thought was that maybe the valve assembly is held in place by the bolts, but the whole unit can be turned (probably not recommended to do this a lot). My Flush King has something like this where you can change the angle of the exit.

It's been above freezing in Chicago for a few days, so I am on my way to the trailer with several 5 gallon jugs of water. First, I want to see if I can open and close each valve. Second, pour 5 gallons in the toilet, check for leaks, and dump the water. Repeat for gray. Pour a bunch of anti freeze back in black and gray.

Loosing sleep over this, especially since we are heading to New Orleans in March and I don't want any surprises when we get there.

Any comments or answers.

Craz-ier Lev

[tkasten]

crazylev - Sorry to hear of your cold weather issues. We just got back from northern part of Michigan (Traverse City area) and experienced some very cold temps. We have the fresh water system winterized and don't use it. We carry fresh water for cooking and flushing. I poor a gal. of antifreeze in the black water tank before camping and that seems to keep things flowing...Tim

[tpi]

Looks like the handles are available.

BLADEX™ WASTE VALVES WITH PLASTI

http://www.tjtrailers.com/store/drai...-fittings.html

[crazylev]

Tim,

We've camped in all sorts of weather, just have not experienced the above.

I did have a little antifreeze in the B & G tanks and keep some in there during winter storage.

I just got back from my trailer and tested everything out. Valves open and close OK. I put some hitch grease on the metal bars that slide out from the valves and that made a big difference. The gray valve, even in optimal conditions was always kind of tough to open and close. The grease seemed to help, but that will probably eat away any rubber gaskets that may be in the valve assembly.

After this, I thought about how to prevent this in the future: electric heated pipe tape, building an enclosure and keeping a heat source i.e. a high wattage light bulb, etc. going.

Supposedly the furnace keeps things thawed within the trailer somehow but I think I'd keep a few cabinets open a crack if we went out when it is really cold.

As far as the valve assembly moving, I'm thinking that those are supposed to move so that during initial install, they can be positioned properly. Thus the reason AS places a thin metal flange around the valve assembly to keep it in that position.

Jonathan

[crazylev]

tpi.

Thanks for that. And only a couple of bucks. Probably $15.00 to ship though....

[masseyfarm]

Originally Posted by crazylev

Tim,

We've camped in all sorts of weather, just have not experienced the above.

I did have a little antifreeze in the B & G tanks and keep some in there during winter storage.

I just got back from my trailer and tested everything out. Valves open and close OK. I put some hitch grease on the metal bars that slide out from the valves and that made a big difference. The gray valve, even in optimal conditions was always kind of tough to open and close. The grease seemed to help, but that will probably eat away any rubber gaskets that may be in the valve assembly.

After this, I thought about how to prevent this in the future: electric heated pipe tape, building an enclosure and keeping a heat source i.e. a high wattage light bulb, etc. going.

Supposedly the furnace keeps things thawed within the trailer somehow but I think I'd keep a few cabinets open a crack if we went out when it is really cold.

As far as the valve assembly moving, I'm thinking that those are supposed to move so that during initial install, they can be positioned properly. Thus the reason AS places a thin metal flange around the valve assembly to keep it in that position.

Jonathan

This is from another similar thread.

One error you probably made was running the portable oil heater at full blast. This allowed the furnace to only work part time and restricted the circulation of warm air to the lower part of trailer.
Let the furnace do the work, and use the portable as a backup. Just run it on the low setting when warm air circulation is important.
2nd error was not enough RV PINK STUFF in the waste water system. Remember that the valve is at the lowest point and usually exposed to the outside, or close to it.

Cold weather will usually get the waste water side before the fresh water side, if no PINK is added. Generally we have more volume of fresh water which takes a bit longer to gel. and the fresh tank is not directly exposed as is the waste valve.

I don't know what the dilution ratios are for the PINK.
But I do make sure I have 2 or 3 jugs if I am heading for cold weather.

Remember the waste valve is only a 3" pipe and when exposed is like an ice cube tray. (small volume, and large exposed surface.) It cools off real fast, compared to the larger volume of fresh water in a tank that has a large volume compared to the surface exposed.


Dave

[crazylev]

Dave,

Not sure where you got the idea we were running a portable oil heater.

We were just using the furnace. Inside a toasty 70 degrees. I had already winterized the trailer (blown out water lines, drain HW tank, etc.) so we brought our own drinking water. Used just the kitchen sink to dispose of gray. After trip I added usual amount of antifreeze.

I know some have skirted the area around their trailers for long term cold weather camping, but for those very few times we go out in winter this is impractical.

j

[Gene]

Thetford makes drain valve lubricant. My valves are getting hard to move and I'll get some of that to use next year (haven't used it yet). It could have been a combination of the need for periodic lubrication and cold weather that was the problem.

When we winterize, I put some antifreeze in the tanks to keep the valves lubricated during the winter.

Gene

[Wingeezer]

Wonder what is in that drain valve lubricant? Probably some fairly common commodity that one could buy for much less if we knew what is was.

Although it has never happened to me (yet) I always in fear of a stuck valve and pulling the handle out of the blade, so I throw some of the Thetford stuff in now and then - not sure if it is $$ down the drain or not though, pun intended!

Brian.

[eubank]

Maybe I should post a link to our "winterworthy RV" document that we used to use when we ran the park full-hilt during ski season:

http://monteverderv.com/WinterworthyRVs.pdf


Lynn

[Gene]

Good advice Lynn.

Gene