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Old 02-14-2008, 11:19 AM   #1
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Can I set up as park model and still have black tank?

I recently purchased a 1970 27ft. Overlander with a rear bath. I am going to replace the floor in the bath at least. It is presently set up with a house type toilet which is piped directly through the floor as a park type setup. There is a tank under the floor in the rear middle but is apparently not hooked up to the toilet. I plan on setting the trailer up on some property with a septic system so that is okay for the present time. I would like not to have to mess with the black tank and chemicals there.

Okay, here is my question:

While I am replacing the floor could I install new black and gray tanks so that at a later date if I wanted to convert it back I could just change the toilet out and re-route some piping from under the trailer and use it in its intended capacity? Has anyone done this? I wouldn’t want to have to tear into the floor again!

The gray tank is not a problem I could run that water through it but does the toilet have to run into the top of the tank?

I guess that I am “wanting the best of both worlds”.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I too am a “newbie” here.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:47 AM   #2
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This is what we are doing

Welcome to the forums.
We are currently using our Sovereign as a park model. I installed a new RV toilet where the toilet would go, and when the black tank is full, I go out back and pull the handle. I have to do this about once every 6 days. I would not advise trying to use a household toilet, as the flanges on the bottom are different sizes and configurations.
Also, the household toilet uses a massive amount of water compared to the RV toilet. If you were able to install the houshold toilet so it worked, you would probably only get 4-5 flushes out of it before having to empty the tank.
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhord
..Okay, here is my question:

While I am replacing the floor could I install new black and gray tanks so that at a later date if I wanted to convert it back I could just change the toilet out and re-route some piping from under the trailer and use it in its intended capacity? Has anyone done this? I wouldn’t want to have to tear into the floor again!

The gray tank is not a problem I could run that water through it but does the toilet have to run into the top of the tank?...
Since the toilet sits right on top of the black tank a direct septic line AND a black tank installation would be next to impossible at the same time since the black tank will be in the way of any direct piping to the septic system.

However....since it is a rear bath, it may not be too difficult to route the toilet directly to septic and then do an install of a black tank when you are ready to take it on the road.

It is not recommended to just "flush through" the black tank (leave it open all of the time).

Even the grey tank should be "dumped" - there are some solids from the sinks and shower that could build up and dehydrate over time.

Now that you are registered do a search of "Brown Mountain" or "Black Tank Backup" to learn of the nasty things that could happen if you do not actually "flush" the black tank from time to time.

Oh, yeah, welcome to the Forums.

Pictures of your floor damage and your repair process on the '70 Overlander would be appreciated.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:27 PM   #4
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Welcome to the Forum! First, I have to ask, how long do you plan on leaving your AS as a Park Job? If it is for a few years, then by all means put in a standard house john connected to the sewer. When you are ready to set the AS up for the road then do the major work of installing a new black tank and TT toilet. As my fellow forum member states, you can't have both all at the same time. Good luck and post some pictures please.
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhord
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I recently purchased a 1970 27ft. Overlander with a rear bath. I am going to replace the floor in the bath at least....
hello vhord and welcome to the forums!

assuming the frame doesn't need work, which is doubtful.

it would be nice to have new holding tanks and a new (rv style) pot on top...

but only after the frame is ready.

and don't forget the photos!

cheers
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:55 PM   #6
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I realize that I cannot route my house type toilet through a black tank as it would leave a lot of solids behind. My tank (which is trying to fall out now!) is located directly between the main two beams on the trailer and is not directly underneath the toilet(??). I am not sure what the PO did and will not know until I get further into the floor. Therefore I may have been premature to ask this question but I was just attempting to look ahead a bit.

My trailer is presently at my farm (125 miles away). I was forced to leave it there after 40 miles of my 165 mile trip until I can get that tank secure or removed. I didn't want it falling out on the way home!

I plan on posting pictures as soon as I get back from there. It will definitely be a project. I am going to gut the interior furnishings at the farm because I have a barn there to store them in. Then I will bring it home (actually to my business - I own a hardware store) to replace the floor and repair whatever frame damage there probably is. The outer shell is in fairly good condition and I think the axles will be sufficient for the trip although I am sure they could use replacing. New tires and wheels however compliments of the PO who could not locate the old ones. It had been set up on blocks at another farm for a number of years.

I am not exactly sure how long it will be set up in the park mode as it is going to my hunting lease and who knows how long we will be able to keep the lease.
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Old 02-14-2008, 04:01 PM   #7
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given u are planning a significant redo...

it seems like a negative compromise to plumb it for two, #2 purposes....

how about an outhouse or porta-john for use during the rehab and at the hunting site?

scat happens!

2air'
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Old 02-14-2008, 04:32 PM   #8
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The only pictures I have are of the outside taken by my cell phone. It doesn't show much but if you look closely you can probably see the bungee cords holding up the tank!Click image for larger version

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Old 02-14-2008, 04:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhord
The only pictures I have are of the outside taken by my cell phone. It doesn't show much but if you look closely you can probably see the bungee cords holding up the tank!Attachment 54296
Use the toilet as originally intended.

If you leave the valve open, some solids will collect, and you will later find out, what you don't ever want to hear.

Leave the slide valve closed, and dump and rinse the tank, as often as you have to.

If you use it any other way, you will be told "we told you not to do that."

Also, aside from the toilet problems, it looks like, at least from your photo, that the axles are shot.

Andy
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Old 02-14-2008, 06:26 PM   #10
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Andy,

After reading many of your much appreciated postings I expected you to catch the axle problem. I would have been disappointed if you didn't! I will be contacting you later about these as I feel that I will get the correct fit from you. Is there going to be any problem (except the unexpected) with pulling it the last 125 miles with the old axles? I value your opinion.

P. S. - the inside will be gutted of furnishings which should lessen the weight.
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Old 02-14-2008, 06:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhord
Andy,

After reading many of your much appreciated postings I expected you to catch the axle problem. I would have been disappointed if you didn't! I will be contacting you later about these as I feel that I will get the correct fit from you. Is there going to be any problem (except the unexpected) with pulling it the last 125 miles with the old axles? I value your opinion.

P. S. - the inside will be gutted of furnishings which should lessen the weight.
With bad axles, the trailer wants to bottom out.

With reduced weight, it should become worse.

Towing that 125 miles, should not be a problem, "IF" you tow slooooooooooow, like 50 mph or less.

Andy
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Old 02-14-2008, 07:32 PM   #12
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With bad axles, the trailer wants to bottom out.

With reduced weight, it should become worse.


Andy
It's been a long day around here... I think Andy meant it would lessen the chance of bottoming out with less weight.
I looked at a '72 Sovereign rear bath a couple of weeks ago, and the black tank was directly under the toilet, with a space on the opposite side of the frame where a grey tank would go, if it had one.
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Old 02-14-2008, 07:59 PM   #13
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I towed it 40 miles last week and the hubs stayed cool. I feel comfortable with that although I may still check out the bearings & etc. I have helped build many trailers in the last years but have never worked with torsion axles, just leaf spring and straight axles. Are torsion axles designed so that if the rubber totally gives way the inter axle will not totally spin? That would be my main concern. May be a dumb question.
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Old 02-14-2008, 08:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhord
I towed it 40 miles last week and the hubs stayed cool. I feel comfortable with that although I may still check out the bearings & etc. I have helped build many trailers in the last years but have never worked with torsion axles, just leaf spring and straight axles. Are torsion axles designed so that if the rubber totally gives way the inter axle will not totally spin? That would be my main concern. May be a dumb question.
I had a torsion axle completely fail on our Sovereign.
What happened in our case was the rubber cords that support the weight of the trailer, and soften the bouncing from the road, came apart, and allowed one of the spindle/hub assemblies to literaly fall out of the axle tube. It only fell out after I removed the shock absorber from that spindle. The way I knew I had a problem was the trailer started leaning significantly toward the side with the failed axle spindle. The axle itself is bolted to the frame, with independent spindles trailing from it at a backward and downward angle. Therefore, the axle will not spin, but if a bearing fails and locks up, it could cause that tire/wheel assembly to skid like the brakes were locked, eventually resulting in a blown tire, or the wheel/tire/brake drum falling off the trailer while towing.
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