The right Dexter for '71 Tradewind?

[Lumatic]

After going to the FCU Restoration Rally (none to soon since I noticed a badly damaged axle) I know enough to be dangerous. I need to get axles asap. I thought I had it all figured out. Using the formula for determining the right axle rating 1.25x loaded trailer weight 6520# = 6875# divided by 2 for tandem axles I came up with 3437# per axle. One Dexter dealer says he won't sell an axle rated less than 3500# because they are prone to fail. I guess 3500 is close enough. I thought I could get a 3500# (#10?) axle with a 12" brake. Another dealer told me he just talked to Dexter and was told they won't put a 12" brake on a 3500# (#10) axle because the larger spindle causes arm failures. Says the smallest axle I can get with 12" brakes is a #11 which is rated at 4000#. Would this #11 be too stiff? Should I get a #10 axles with 10x2 brakes? I appreciate your advice.

[HiHoAgRV]

A #10 rated at 3500 lbs has the same stiffness as a #11 rated at 3500 lbs. The difference is of course, the size of the pcs used to make the axle. My '77 has the axle ratings on the placard rivited to the front of the trailer = 3,200 lbs. I'm going with 3,500 lb #11's 'cause I take alot of junk with me

There are a number of threads in this section including mine "Epiphany gets new axles". If I can help, PM me.

[Lumatic]

Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV

A #10 rated at 3500 lbs has the same stiffness as a #11 rated at 3500 lbs. The difference is of course, the size of the pcs used to make the axle. My '77 has the axle ratings on the placard rivited to the front of the trailer = 3,200 lbs. I'm going with 3,500 lb #11's 'cause I take alot of junk with me

There are a number of threads in this section including mine "Epiphany gets new axles". If I can help, PM me.

I understand from talking to a dealer today that #11s range from 4000-6000# and a 3500# #11 is not available is this wrong?

[Chuck]

where did you come up with this forumula for determining the right axle rating?

on my safari, the original axles were rated at 2600 lbs...the gvw is 5800 (stamped on the tag), which = 2 axles + tounge weight. I'm afraid that even a 3500lb axle would be "too stiff", let alone 4000. 10" brakes= 5 new wheel$.

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by Lumatic

I understand from talking to a dealer today that #11s range from 4000-6000# and a 3500# #11 is not available is this wrong?

I've spoken with Dexter and yes it's possible to order a #11 derated to 3500 lbs. My replacement set should be here today, #11's 5.5 X 6 lug, 32 degree down angle, reversed High Profile mounts, nevr Lube Hubs, 12" brakes. A number of forum members have used Dexters #11's with the ratings below 4,000

[3Ms75Argosy]

Just FYI, the #10 comes in a 6 lug by 5.5" lug pattern... in drums ONLY! The disk brakes from Dexter will not come in a 6 lug pattern... nor will the #11 Kodiaks or Dexter's fit the #10 axle stubs (as the spindle is smaller in diameter) is what Dexter engineering told me. Confusing, no?

I also think two 3500 pound axles will be too stiff. Have you weighed your trailer? My Argosy semi loaded JUST comes to 5000#'s... I'll be shooting for 6200 GVR when the axles (someday!) come.

Good luck!
Marc

[Lumatic]

Originally Posted by Chuck

where did you come up with this forumula for determining the right axle rating?

The formula (in 2 versions) was presented this weekend at the FCU Restoration Rally.
version 1. 1.25 x loaded trailer weight divided by the number of axles
version 2. 1.5 x dry weight divided by the number of axles

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by Lumatic

The formula (in 2 versions) was presented this weekend at the FCU Restoration Rally.

Interesting. Any idea of the source? is this one person's "opinion", or did it come from someone like Dexter? Henschen? InlandRV? Airstream?

Based on those formulas, and the published empty/gross weights of my trailer, I'd need something somewhere between 2800 and 3600 lbs.

good to know that 6 bolt 10" drums are available. I guess they must not think that anything light enough to use an axle that size would actually "need" discs. {shrug} Ida know...cars much lighter than that use disc brakes.

[utee94]

Originally Posted by Chuck

Interesting. Any idea of the source? is this one person's "opinion", or did it come from someone like Dexter? Henschen? InlandRV? Airstream?

Based on those formulas, and the published empty/gross weights of my trailer, I'd need something somewhere between 2800 and 3600 lbs.

good to know that 6 bolt 10" drums are available. I guess they must not think that anything light enough to use an axle that size would actually "need" discs. {shrug} Ida know...cars much lighter than that use disc brakes.

I guess they're counting on the TV to "assist" in the braking? Seems to me that a trailer capable of stopping itself with no assistance might be a desirable thing, but I'm no mechanical engineer...

[3Ms75Argosy]

Sorry I was not more clear - there IS a 10" disk available that fits on the #10 axles, rated up to 3500 pounds... it's just smaller (obviously) and a 5 LUG pattern vs the 12" disk 6 lug available for the #11 axles.

Again, the spindles are different on the #10 (smaller in diameter) vs. #11.
Marc

[Inland RV Center, In]

Why in the world would anyone want to reduce the braking power of their trailer?

Remember, a good trailer braking system, will also stop the tow vehicle.

Electric brakes that have oval type magnets, have the following stopping power, PER AXLE, but only when properly adjusted.

10 inch brakes have 3500 pounds of stopping power per axle.

12 inch brakes have 5200 pounds of stopping power per axle.

When you add the tow vehicle weight to the trailer weight, as an example a tandem 23 foot trailer your way past 8000 pounds, or more.

Considering most owners never adjust the electric brakes, then the above ratings must be reduced.

Safety, safety. What a question.

I have great difficulty believing that 10 inch brakes are not a safety hazard, on any 20 foot or longer Airstream.

Try stopping your rig with trailer brakes only.

They should not sort of work, but they should absolutely get your attention, that safety IS at work.

I frankly think Dexters reasoning for using 10 inch brakes, is a huge cop out, and creates a huge false sense of security.

Andy

[Lumatic]

Dexter vs Henshen aside. I would love to have disc brakes but the way I thunk it is a 12" brake for a 4500# trailer is a good second choice and more than adequate for the job. I am not comfortable with reducing the margin of error by going to a 10" brake though.

[FrenchBern]

I just called Dexter to place my order for 2 axles. They no longer offer the #10 axle with "A" splindle Hybrid which included 12" brakes like the original AS version. "Low demand" was cited as the reason. So anyone with an older version "light AS" is out of luck with getting Dexter axles close to OEM parts.
Are there any other axle mfg available at a reasonable price? I need my axles before late August. Thanks

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by FrenchBern

I just called Dexter to place my order for 2 axles. They no longer offer the #10 axle with "A" splindle Hybrid which included 12" brakes like the original AS version. "Low demand" was cited as the reason. So anyone with an older version "light AS" is out of luck with getting Dexter axles close to OEM parts.
Are there any other axle mfg available at a reasonable price? I need my axles before late August. Thanks

What is a reasonable price?

Dexter also quit making what you wanted, because they lost money on them, so we have been told.

Obviously, they couldn't make money by building one or two special axles at a time, since they are not geared up for that.

Henschens production methods, allow them create one or two at a time, since they did that for Airstream for many years.

Plus, no specs are needed for a correct fitting axle, other than the trailer serial number.

Andy

[Lumatic]

I ordered my Dexters from the factory and got them in about a week. Dexter was very helpful and patient with me making sure I got the measurements right. Here is what I got:
#10 axles rated at 2900#
10" hubs with electric brakes
6 x 5 1/2 lug pattern
high profile reverse mounting bracket with reverse orientation
shock mount option
22 1/2 down start angle
33" wire leads
ez lube hubs

The only thing is ( I'll say ahead of time you warned me Andy) the mounting flange measurements are not exactly what I ordered, not exactly square and both axles flange distances are slightly different. The distance between the flanges varies. The differences vary from front of the mounting flange to rear by about 1/16" and the overall width is between 1/16 and 3/16" overall shorter than what I ordered.

The way I figure it the difference when split between both sides of the axle amounts to 1/32 to 3/32" and better a little shorter than too long. Hopefully I can pull the fishplate in flush when I torque it in and if worse comes to worse I can shim it. Before I start drilling and humping does anybody have a dissenting opinion or suggestions?

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Lumatic

I ordered my Dexters from the factory and got them in about a week. Dexter was very helpful and patient with me making sure I got the measurements right. Here is what I got:
#10 axles rated at 2900#
10" hubs with electric brakes
6 x 5 1/2 lug pattern
high profile reverse mounting bracket with reverse orientation
shock mount option
22 1/2 down start angle
33" wire leads
ez lube hubs

The only thing is ( I'll say ahead of time you warned me Andy) the mounting flange measurements are not exactly what I ordered, not exactly square and both axles flange distances are slightly different. The distance between the flanges varies. The differences vary from front of the mounting flange to rear by about 1/16" and the overall width is between 1/16 and 3/16" overall shorter than what I ordered.

The way I figure it the difference when split between both sides of the axle amounts to 1/32 to 3/32" and better a little shorter than too long. Hopefully I can pull the fishplate in flush when I torque it in and if worse comes to worse I can shim it. Before I start drilling and humping does anybody have a dissenting opinion or suggestions?

Your axle ratings should have been 3200 pounds each, or at least, 3000 pounds.

35 degrees starting angle, give the trailer more ground clearance.

More importantly, new 10 inch brakes, "perfectly" adjusted, are only good for 7000 pounds stopping power, but they don't stay that way, because owners do not adjust them periodically.

!2 inch brakes, similar to what your Airstream originally had, perfectly adjusted, have 10,400 pounds of stopping power. They don't stay that way either, but they will come far closer to getting the job done, any day of the week.

The big question is how do you stop your entire rig, "if" the tow vehicle brakes quit?

Certainly the 10" is very inadequate, and the 12 inch will get the job done.

I also don't understand why a manufacturer insists on 10 inch brakes, when the cost for the 10 inch and 12 inch, are the same.

To me, there is a great difference between "squeaking by" and getting the job done, when it comes to braking power.

Next is heat generated by the brakes when stopping.

Obviously, the larger the brake surface, the cooler they will be when stopping the same total rig weight.

I also believe that Dexter provides a "take it or leave it" design.

We provide equal to or better than the original axle design, and "never" inferior to it.


Andy

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by Lumatic

... the mounting flange measurements are not exactly what I ordered, not exactly square and both axles flange distances are slightly different. The distance between the flanges varies. The differences vary from front of the mounting flange to rear by about 1/16" and the overall width is between 1/16 and 3/16" overall shorter than what I ordered.

The way I figure it the difference when split between both sides of the axle amounts to 1/32 to 3/32" and better a little shorter than too long. Hopefully I can pull the fishplate in flush when I torque it in and if worse comes to worse I can shim it. Before I start drilling and humping does anybody have a dissenting opinion or suggestions?

Don't worry about it. I believe the Airstream frame has worse tolerances than your new axles. I dropped the "defacto standard" factory axles from under my trailer and the frame mounting plates spread by 3/16". Stick the new ones under and torque the bolts, everything will pull into place. I sure you will be thrilled with the new setup.

[Lumatic]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

We provide equal to or better than the original axle design, and "never" inferior to it.


Andy

Andy may very well be right and I certainly don't claim to be more knowledgeable than he.

Respectfully, my only response is $ certainly was a factor for my choice, but not the only factor. I spent a lot of time listening to all the information I could get and concluded, rightly or wrongly, the Dexters are more than up to the job and are not a poor second cloice. I am not saying that Dexters are better than Henshens.

What I concluded is that the 2900# axles with 10" brakes will do the job on my 4200# Tradwind even loaded with 1000# pounds of extras. I considered going to a higher rating but the original Henshens were rated at 2600# and to me the risk of damage from too stiff an axle is greater than too soft. I loaded that puppy up with full tanks, fridge and all my camping junk, more than I would ever tow, and took it to the scales and weighed in at 5500#.I chose not to increase the start angle because 22 1/2 degrees seemed just about right without dragging my tailfeathers, raising the center of gravity or making changes to my hitch.

If I have made a poor choice I will be sure to post it so others may not make the same mistake, and if the axles work out as I think they will I will do the same.

[Lumatic]

I asked Dexter and got an answer about the axle mounting flange not being exactly the dimension I ordered. FYI I got a prompt answer from Dexter saying the factory allows the mounting flange distance to be up to 1/8" smaller than the ordered spec but not larger. I was able to add some custom made negative space articulators to fill the void but it was a little extra work.

I don't know if Henshens are made to any less tolerances, but it is a point I thought I would mention for forum consideration.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Lumatic

I asked Dexter and got an answer about the axle mounting flange not being exactly the dimension I ordered. FYI I got a prompt answer from Dexter saying the factory allows the mounting flange distance to be up to 1/8" smaller than the ordered spec but not larger. I was able to add some custom made negative space articulators to fill the void but it was a little extra work.

I don't know if Henshens are made to any less tolerances, but it is a point I thought I would mention for forum consideration.

Henschen axles, from 1969 and up, are guaranteed, to fit exactly.

All that is needed for replacements, is the trailer serial number.

Andy