2015 ducted air

[thebreezeman]

Recently bought a 2014 fc 25 w/o ducting. Is the benefit of ducting worth enough to trade for a 2015 model.

[moosetags]

We just bought a 2015 FC 25FB because of the ducted air conditioning. We had a 2012 FC 23FB with the super load air conditioner. Prior to that, we had a 2005 Safari 25FB. The air conditioner on the 2005 was not offensive like the 2012.

We could have gotten a super deal on a brand new 2014, but decided to pay the extra to get the new quiet air conditioning. We have had the 2015 for three months now and have spent over 40 nights in it. We love the fact that we can actually hear the television while the air conditioner or heat pump is running.

As to whether it's worth trading a 2014 on a 2015, that is a question that only you can answer.

Brian

[Gene]

For the depreciation on the 2014, you could look into some modification that will duct the air and it might come out less. Of course, I haven't seen how the ducted A/C is done and whether you would need a different A/C. And you might find someone who will pay close to what you paid for your 2014, but that seems unlikely. And maybe in mid-winter, a dealer will trade with you and your depreciation will be less, probably unlikely too.

I just turn up the TV sound when the A/C (or furnace) is running.

Gene

[jcanavera]

I can't speak on how well the ducted air works on the Airstream, but on our SOB prior to the Airstream we had ducting. I can attest that it was very nice with a much lower level of sound. The only thing I heard negative about the ducting was from my dealer who felt that the initial cool down of a hot trailer seems to take more time.

As far as your question goes, you can make a run at the dealer now and see what he will do for you. If he has to order one in for you, he might give you a better deal since he will have your trailer available for resale much earlier which will help his bottom line and the fact that an ordered trailer will not be sitting on his lot waiting for a buyer.

I know when we traded our Safari in for the Classic, the Safari was 3 years old and I ordered the Classic. He gave us list price (when the Safari was new in 2001) as the trade in value against the list price of the new Classic (2004). I felt at the time that it was a pretty good deal. I ordered the Classic in September and he took the Safari at that time. Ended up he sold the Safari within 2 weeks. I got my Classic the week before Thanksgiving.

Jack

[Msmoto]

I guess we have another thread on this subject, but for those interested....

Ducted A/C and heat on 2010 Tiffin Allegro Bus 43 QGP. (Big, expensive) a luxury moho.... noise factor about the same as the twin unit ducted air on my 2015 Serenity.

Two previous AS, non-ducted air, single A/C units Noisy as .....with A/C on high, required with only one unit.

The 2015 is IMO markedly quieter, and the two units will cool the trailer from 90º+ to mid 70's in 10-20 minutes......exceptionally good at cooling a hot trailer.

Only complaint, the air flow from the outlets over my rear bed tends to blow in my face, but I think this can be easily corrected. I am not certain about the "Zones" but I think the Zone 1 compressor is in the rear, Zone 2 in the front. I have not really got this one figured out.

Overall, the ducted air takes the AS into a new era, one where an actual comparison between a luxury moho and trailer can be made. I suspect the Classic is the closest to a moho, but one problem with the Classic is the rear panoramic windows which rob the extra closet space in the International and Flying Cloud rear bed. But, the ducted air has taken AS to a new dimension......IMO, of course.

As to trading for a 2015 to get the ducted air, probably more an economic question. It may be possible to somehow quiet the non-ducted air, but some head room may have to be sacrificed. If one decided to trade to get the ducted air, for sure I would suggest two units.

[KJRitchie]

I wonder if the non ducted air in AS with the all aluminum sides and ceilings vs the older models with vinyl ceiling and mouse fur are noisier. I have a 2008 Classic 25fb and the AC is not too bad for noise. If I gave up TV watching in my AS it wouldn't be much of an issue. Doesn't bother us while sleeping. We don't use Auto on the thermostat just low and the fan runs all night.

Another reason to go with a 2015 is no Micropulse monitor panel.

Probably the best thing is to ask a dealer to connect to shore power and have them run the AC or heat pump for you. I'd like to see the 23ft models get ducted air if they are noticeably quieter.

Trading in with a dealer will be expensive. If they give you a good price on the trade in they won't budge on the price of the new model. You best bet is to sell it on your own. Best to wait for the 2016s to come out to get a better price on a 2015.

Or put up with the noise and buy a used 2015 in a few years. Camp where you don't need AC.

I'd like to see someone post a video of the AC running in a 2015.


Kelvin

[moosetags]

We recently traded a 2012 FC 23FB for a 2015 FC 25FB.

The air conditioner in the 23FB was akin to being on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier while launching jets. The television was not loud enough to hear over the air conditioner.

The new 2015's ducted system is very much quieter. We can actually hold a conversation or watch television while it is running.

Brian

[Gene]

I agree the A/C in our '08 is noisy, but we can hear the TV; same with the furnace. This in spite of the fact my wife is convinced my hearing is shot (she doesn't talk loud enough). We have the aluminum interior. Maybe hearing aids would be cheaper than a ducted Airstream.

For those of us who aren't going to look at new ones (250 miles to a dealer for us), how do they run the ducts? Under a central soffit running from back to front in the ceiling? And why is it quiet? The ducts from the furnace are not quiet at all.

Gene

[KJRitchie]

From what I've seen on photos and a Colonial Airstream video is the outside roof skin is raised to allow the ducting to exit along the street and curb sides of the roof interior throughout the whole trailer. The roof air unit has a couple of intake ducts along the center line of the roof interior below the outside unit. I would think the space between the ducting is probably insulated so any noise from the outside unit is muffled better. The noise of the fan and air flowing through the ducts is probably also absorbed by the extra insulation in the roof.

I'm wondering if the roof on the 2015 is better insulated from the heat of the sun. What is the R factor of a 2015 roof with ducted air vs a 2014 of a similar model?

Kelvin

[scamp]

If you realy want the new a/c on a 2015 airstream ,why don't you put your trailer up for sale and be patient it will sell at a good price and if it sells then go and get your new 2015 airstream I try and buy a new trailer every year and break even ,you have to be patient it took awhile to sell my previous airstream ,I put it for sale in the fall and sold in later spring, and I will put my 2015 airstream up for sale this spring and if it sells I will buy a 2016 when they come out, although in canada the airstream prices are more then the usa , I buy them in the USA and sell them in canada. Of course your trailer must be in new like condition to get a good price and not loose.

Don

[ghaynes755]

Kelvin is correct there is a 'hump' that makes the roof a few inches higher. It is filled with insulation so there is more insulation but I haven't seen anything about R values. Don't think I have ever seen R values for any of the AS products.

[mefly2]

Originally Posted by thebreezeman

Recently bought a 2014 fc 25 w/o ducting. Is the benefit of ducting worth enough to trade for a 2015 model.

It was definitely enough for us to trade in a 2013 on a 2015 last June... we took the trade in hit, put it behind us, and are very pleased with the first 2015 Eddie Bauer with ducted air! It has no bugs and is without peer compared to earlier AS AC designs.

Search for my many previous ducted air posts (with empirical data) and you will understand just why... without me going on here again.

[2012FB]

This is quite subjective and a lot of owners find that for their needs the older non-ducted design works great and they are happy with it. I unfortunately was not one of them.

As others have suggested I put my immaculate heavily modified/upgraded 2012 25' FB up for sale and it went to the first buyer at a good price. I then bought a 2015 30' Bunk with Dual AC/HP. We would not have done this except for our major disappointment with the 2012 25' FB's extreme noise of the AC and the fact that it would not cool the trailer at all in direct sunlight, which in AZ and CO is life. After scouring the forums I could not justify all of the suggested remedies for potentially increasing the cooling and reducing the noise without knowing that the end result would be adequate.

Overall the ducted air is significantly quieter, heats and cools better/quicker (even only running 1 zone in a 30'), the heat/cool is more evenly distributed and the interior of the roof is cooler in direct sun.

If you prefer or need to run the AC a lot for your use than I think it is well worth the upgrade.

We bought a luxury trailer to be cool and peaceful. This was not at all what we got with the first Airstream product we purchased, however it is very close with the new one. I just have a few more personal modifications/upgrades to make now and it will be great. We are very anxious to be using it this spring.

[kscherzi]

I have a 2013 without ducted air. I wish I had ducted air, but even more wish I had the seelevel tank monitoring system, and not the micropulse system (that has never properly worked). I also wish I would win the lottery. Compared to the old floppy popup I recently sold I'm actually pretty happy with what I have.

Not sure where you camp, but think about how many times you really use the AC. In two years, we've only used it twice (but we live and camp in California).

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by thebreezeman

Recently bought a 2014 fc 25 w/o ducting. Is the benefit of ducting worth enough to trade for a 2015 model.

If you lived and camped in the Southeast U.S. or desert Southwest in summer perhaps, but I would find better ways to spend money.

In Minnesota, no only no but heck no.

And the bugs may not be completely worked out of this system yet.

[Gene]

In the summer we go north or stay at high altitude most of the time, so 100˚ temps are not too common. Our A/C cools in those temps, but not as well as at lower ones. If you turn on the A/C and set the temp at 60˚ it seems to cool faster. Also try to find shade and put out the awning(s) as soon as possible. It is adequate. Best to travel in the spring or fall in the southwest if you are at the lower altitudes.

I assume they are still using fiberglass, so a maximum of 2" has an R value around 6 if installed properly. Fiberglass is rarely installed properly even by insulation contractors. Any void that isn't sealed completely will negate much of the R value. Fine Homebuilding checked this out and the R values were poor in most installations. If they sprayed polyurethane in there, the R value would be much, much more and air infiltration would be much lower. I am guessing the R value is 2 or 3 at best for fiberglass. There are steel ribs that transmit heat or cold and further negate R value—you can buy insulators and install them between the skin on both sides and the ribs, but I doubt Airstream would invest in that either.

Gene

[dkottum]

Here's the thing about trading up for the latest innovation. There's no end in sight and they know it, so the temptation is always there.

The new Airstream Classic for example has a long waiting list for a travel trailer that starts over $125,000. Because it is loaded with "firsts" from Airstream. This is a formula that works for sales, you can expect a lot more of it.

Three recent sales winners are rear hatches, ducted air, and the new Classic. Look for these spread across more sizes and models. The Classic is due for a on-board generator, the Sport a pop-top penthouse sleeper. The Flying Cloud a name-change.

The longer you keep and take good care of your Airstream the happier you are with it.

[2012FB]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Here's the thing about trading up for the latest innovation. .

Funny but it is not the latest innovation. Hardly, prior to my 2012 25' FB Airstream I owned a 2006 R Vision made Trail Bay 32' with a 16' center slide out. It had one ducted 1500 AC unit that was very quiet and kept the entire trailer cool everywhere we went. I sell it and buy a 2012 25' FB Airstream that is more than double the price, at probably half the interior volume, and to my utter amazement I now own a trailer that has a very loud AC unit that does not cool the trailer. This is a very direct comparison as both trailers were/are used the same in the same locations. So I basically doubled down with the 2015 30' Airstream that is nearly 4 times what I paid for the 2006 Trail Bay to get what I enjoyed previously, that is a quiet effective cooling system. Perhaps you can see why some of us feel the way we do.

[ghaynes755]

The insulation is a wood based product, I think from recycled wood products. Uncompacted if I remember correctly from the tour last year it was 4 inches or so thick. Brown in color and definitely not fiberglass.

[2012FB]

Originally Posted by ghaynes755

The insulation is a wood based product, I think from recycled wood products. Uncompacted if I remember correctly from the tour last year it was 4 inches or so thick. Brown in color and definitely not fiberglass.

On my 2015 bunk when I removed the factory water heater to replace it with the RV550 the insulation in the wall around it was loosely placed pink fiberglass. I have noticed other areas of the trailer where pink fiberglass is sticking out from between the interior aluminum panels. Did they change back?