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Old 08-16-2004, 05:12 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by malconium
Don,

I have wondered about using an air chisel as a rivit gun.

Does anyone know if an air chisel can be used as a rivit gun as long as the tip is right? I have one that came with an assortment of air tools that I bought for less than $100 that I have not even used yet. I did notice that it has several different types of interchangeable tips. What type of tip does a solid rivit gun have anyway? Would the level of control be different for a rivit gun than for an air chisel?

Thanks,

Malcolm
Malcolm,
My understanding (and from what greg says) is that an air chisel, even if you regulate it perfectly, will work harden the rivets before they are fully set.
Bucked rivets are made from hardened (I think 2117) aluminum T3, and as they are set they work harden to T4.
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Old 08-16-2004, 05:56 PM   #16
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The cheaper gun looks all right but I do like my x-series gun.
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Old 08-16-2004, 06:15 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by greg176
The cheaper gun looks all right but I do like my x-series gun.
Yeah, I can see why. The economy model runs pretty fast with a small piston. Kinda looks like a 2 1/2 X model.

Can I ask what kind of rivets you used? I understand you went with 5/32", do they look different next to the 1/8"? Are they Universal head or Modified Brazier?
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Old 08-16-2004, 06:30 PM   #18
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I am using 5/32" universal rivets.The rivet head is exactly the same size and shape as the original rivets.I went with the 5/32 because the 1/8 head was too small and it's a good idea to open up holes to next size to get a clean hole to prevent leaks.I also have a rivet trimmer and I am cutting -6 rivets as required for different depth holes.
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Old 08-16-2004, 07:30 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by greg176
I am using 5/32" universal rivets.
Greg,
I gotta throw this out there. Something has been bothering me since I started this project.
1. The head diameter of the rivets on my '59 Tradewind are about .310"
2. The stem diameter is about 0.140", which I assume is a size 4 rivet which has expanded while being set. It sure wasn't 5/32".

From looking at a table of dimensions, the head diameter on a 1/8" size 4 Universal rivet is 0.240" to 0.260", much smaller the head diameter on the existing trailer (as you pointed out).
A Brazier head rivet has a head diameter of about .310"

My question is: Did Airstream use Brazier head rivets originally? That would explain the large head on the smaller stem. It also makes it very convenient to drill them out to 5/32" and use a Universal head rivet, which will have the same head diameter as the 1/8" Brazier rivet.
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Old 08-16-2004, 08:06 PM   #20
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Rivit shaving?

What approach are you guys using for shaving the blind rivit heads?

Malcolm
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Old 08-16-2004, 08:16 PM   #21
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Malcolm,
Not using any shaved rivets.
BUT: I did buy a rivet shaver last year for Ultradog. It was a gift for all the work he did welding my frame together. I'm sure he will let you use it. You need to come to Minneapolis though. . .
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Old 08-16-2004, 09:06 PM   #22
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Here, here!

I'd LOVE to borrow (or rent) a rivet shaver for a few days.
My little Airstream has hundreds or leg-flesh-tearin' rivet spears sticking out of it!

Anyone?
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Old 08-16-2004, 09:08 PM   #23
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Don , I am not familiar with brazier rivets but you must be right.The 5/32" universal rivet has a head the same diameter as the old rivet.

And Malcolm I am not using any blind rivets so no shaver.I bought a microstop countersink from airpartsinc and they have a shaver that fits it which might work on Olympic rivets.Total cost only about $15.Might be worth a try.
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Old 08-17-2004, 12:40 AM   #24
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Rivet Shaver - Solid Rivet Set Gun - Etc

Rivet Shaver - I bought a US Industries Rivet Shaver added a foot piece and it cost me 50 dollars shipping and all on ebay. i just checked and there is one on there that is almost identical to mine right now. Just put "rivet shaver" in the search and it will show you what is available. I posted a picture from one that is on ebay right now so you can get an idea. I use the smaller shaver head and it works great. It is both fast and easy.

Rivet Gun - I use an Ingersol Rand regular air hammer and cut the air presurre down. The one I bought came from Harbor Freight http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...unction=Search It is 10 dollars cheaper now than when I bought it, I paid 39 for it. The pressure regulator is there too http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=36797 I place it in the air line at the tool. It has the male end on one side and the female end on the other side this works so I can set the presurre anytime no matter where I am without having to go back to the compressor.

Pop-rivet Gun - Definately go with an air pop rivet gun. It sets the rivet fast and won't wear your hand out. You can go with one like Bobby pictured above, but I prefer the pistol type because they will get into a tighter area.

Obstruction Finder for use with Olympic Rivets - This is simple. Just take a coat hanger and cut a piece about 9 inches long. now bend one end into a small circle, next bend the other end at a 90 degree angle so it looks like a "L" Make the bend so it is about 1/4" longer than the Olympic Rivet set leg. To Use just hook it into a drilled hole, pull it back so the L end will be up against the inner wall and turn it. If it catchs something then you know you have an obstruction and can set the Olympic Rivet that you have trimmed so it has only 2 legs so that the missing leg of the rivet is facing the obstruction.

Aluminum Solid Rivets - Come in "A" and "AD" hardness. "A" is soft, made from 1100 grade aluminum and have a tensile strength of 16,000 PSI. "AD" is much harder and is also harder to set requiring more bucking. "AD" is made from 2117 aluminum and heat treated to T4 Specs and they have a tensile strength of 38,000 PSI. Airstream uses the softer "A" rivets on my model and most likely on your model too. You can always tell the harder "AD" rivet because it has what looks like a center punched hole (It is small) right in the center of the rivet head which the softer "A" rivet does not have.

Bucking Solid Rivets - Must have 2 people, a riveter and a catcher (the person on the inside) Always make sure the catcher is on the same rivet as you are before you buck it in. Just have them tap agaionst it so you know. If you buck against a rivet without the catcher being on it then the result will be a rivet dent in the panel. You must always apply pressure to the rivet through the rivet hammer or air hammer while riveting. This pressure must be firm so the bucking action of the tool dose not allow it to slip off the rivet head. Use short trigger squeezes until the rivet is set. Also the bucking bar dose not have to be one of those special tools that you see. It can be a small sledge hammer at least 1 pound. You just need something heavy to mushroom the inside part of the rivet while you set it.

Note> The difference between a rivet hammer and an air hammer is that the rivet hammer will hit slower. Instead of the Buck - Buck - Buck - Buck of an air hammer you will get a BucK - - Buck - - Buck with the river hammer. I have used both and don't really think that there is a big difference between them, and as I said you can turn down the air pressure and make the air hammer more controlable.
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Old 08-17-2004, 02:20 PM   #25
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Ordered rivit shaver...

Greg176,

I looked at the Air Parts catalog at the following page:

http://www.airpartsinc.com/catalog2004_pdf.htm

I called them and asked about the rivit shaver there. They told me it was intended for what I needed and that it does fit the microcounterstop on the same page. I decided to give it a try. With the shipping charge the total came to $20.70 which is a pretty good deal if it does the job as advertized. It is coming by UPS ground so it may take a few days. Once it arrives I will give it a try and post my findings here.

Thanks for the pointer,

Malcolm
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Old 08-17-2004, 03:09 PM   #26
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Malcolm,
Keep us posted. I thought those things only worked with a special drill, with outriggers, like in the bottom picture in JohnG's post?
It would be neat if you can do them cheaply.
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Old 08-17-2004, 08:00 PM   #27
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We shall see...

I guess I will have to see if outriggers are needed. It seems to me that the main thing is to keep the tool from slipping off of the rivit head and grinding a hole in the surrounding metal. Of course it does need to be centered on the rivit. but that doesn't seem like it would be too dificult. I bought one of those rivit drilling tools that was mentioned somewhere in these forums and it does a good job of staying on the rivit when drilling it out. I would suppose that the right type of bit could also work in that tool too. I should check and see if they have something.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...vetremoval.php

I will let everyone know what I find out - and I hope the news is good news.

Malcolm
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Old 08-17-2004, 08:51 PM   #28
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The tool I have from Airpartsinc is a microstop countersink, it is used for drilling the countersink for flush rivets.The tool has a micrometer-like adjustment to set the depth.You get one countersink right then you can drill all your countersinks and they will be the right depth.They sell a bit that goes in the microstop countersink that is for shaving the heads of flush rivets that did not set quite right,same purpose as JohnG's rivet shaver.You would have to use it in an air drill for the speed.You should not have to center it on the Olympic rivet,just set the depth to save the head.
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