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Bluto · 03-23-2010, 05:04 PM

Is the plant still charging $500 extra for each change, even if it's a wall outlet? Or, is that just on the bigger items? I have my trailer on order too and was told that each change was $500. I'm just checking with you to see if it holds true across the board, even on small items, which I didn't check on.

fmr.capt.evi · 03-23-2010, 05:10 PM

Javier,
How much is the full awning package, and about how much weight will it add? The addition of a 110 volt outlet to the rooflocker next to the stereo is a great idea. That's going on my list.

GolfStream · 03-23-2010, 05:13 PM

The $500 charge is still in effect and I will pay that for each of the two changes I want. In my case, it's worth it to have the outlet exactly where I want it and to get the video signal to the TV the way I want it done. I will get more than $1,000 enjoyment previewing the day's pictures on the big(ger) screen without dangling cables interfering with everything.

Bluto · 03-23-2010, 05:31 PM

Howdy and thanks. It's a lot to think about. The extra that I'm paying $500 for is no carpet. Man, they got a racket going. You get that feature for free on your model don't you?

2airishuman · 03-23-2010, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GolfStream

...That's the update....

excellent post javier, really good report.

and it is HUGELY SAD to read about the DEcontenting and LACK of minor tweaks, previously available.
____________

i guess that's all part of plain-jane-any-flavor-as-long-as-it's-vanilla-bore'em-to-death-BOBwheeler's...

INNOVATION blueprint as the prez...

this guy makes watching vulkem dry EXCITING...

he wanted to control "costs" , get rid of overtime and smooth out the build schedule...

so removing CHOICE and minor customizations appears to be part of that package...

of course removing CHOICES will also chase off customers WHO expect those things in an EXPENSIVE trailer.
__________

IF ordering a NEW unit now, i would contact the shop in colorado...

'timeless travel trailers'

they can get a SHELL with basic mechanicals/wiring and then do a TOTAL CUSTOM interior after consulting with the buyer.

they've got 'design folks' on staff to do this like the million dollar+ moho makers...

it's great they are available to offer this option to customers, and TOO BAD a/s in j/c doesn't see the potential.
__________

i sure hope they can do the wiring as YOU want.

the sad/ironic thing is that back in 06? they displayed a "internet, wireless/gadget friendly HIGHtech" model...

it was pretty cool and sparked interest and gave hope they were gonna get WITH the tech awareness...

that's not happened either.
__________

racket is RIGHT bluto...

we pay EXTRA to leave OUT carpet or NOT cut a hole in the roof for a skylight...

extra money to NOT get stuff?

maybe THAT is the next wave of a/s innovation...

good luck with ALL your orders guys, we'll all be looking forward to the pix and reports...

cheers
2air'

CanoeStream · 03-23-2010, 07:35 PM

Our July '05 order on the 25' FB SE -- we didn't have to pay the $500 to leave something off -- the carpet in the front between the twin beds. We kept the linoleum straight through, front to back. Thank you Airstream. Best mod to the way the factory woulda done it. Awesome...

ROBERTSUNRUS · 03-23-2010, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

extra money to NOT get stuff?

maybe THAT is the next wave of a/s innovation...

cheers
2air'

Hi, Airstream has been doing this for quite a few years now; They took Safari's, and removed the vinyl headliner, removed the mouse fur walls, installed bent wood chairs with patio furniture cushions, changed the name, [CCD] and doubled the price. Yet the public lined up to buy them. That makes Airstream pretty smart, I think.

Disclaimer: note, this was not meant to hurt the feelings of my friends with the bare wall interior models.

laynlow · 03-24-2010, 03:50 AM

We decided on the 2010 27FB Classic Limited, pick it up in two weeks.

Thanks!

craftsman · 03-24-2010, 04:17 AM

I had a number of additions to my 25' Classsic icluding elimanating the cabinets over the twins adding vista views above and below the bedroom windows,which called for longer curtains and shades in the bedroom, stacked windows to the right of the door and the addition of a switched light over the door. I remember only one $500.00 charge for the change order plus the cost of the changes.Not $500.00 for each change.

Bluto · 03-24-2010, 10:26 AM

Craftsman,
You are right about the fee of $500 just once in most cases. I just got off the phone with JC and that's what I was told. That makes it a lot easier to swallow. Now I really have to think about all the stuff that A/S has deleted over the years and see about a change order to include everything I have been thinging about.

GolfStream · 03-24-2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmrcaptevil

Javier,
How much is the full awning package, and about how much weight will it add? The addition of a 110 volt outlet to the rooflocker next to the stereo is a great idea. That's going on my list.

I was quoted by my dealer $1,500 for the awning package. Based on what I read above, I should be really happy with that.

I don't know why the 110V in the roof locker is not a standard item. Perhaps it will be next year. =)

GolfStream · 03-24-2010, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluto

Craftsman,
You are right about the fee of $500 just once in most cases. I just got off the phone with JC and that's what I was told. That makes it a lot easier to swallow. Now I really have to think about all the stuff that A/S has deleted over the years and see about a change order to include everything I have been thinging about.

I have not yet received the final bill, so I'll let you know what is the final tally. I totally understand the $500 charge. If you want something special, in a highly manual build process, you have to have someone watch over your project. I'm willing to pay for the extra service.

GolfStream · 03-24-2010, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laynlow

We decided on the 2010 27FB Classic Limited, pick it up in two weeks.

Thanks!

Congratulations!

Bluto · 03-24-2010, 10:43 AM

GolfStream,
Do you know if the 110 outlet under the dinette table is hooked into the inverter? I assume all the 110 are, but I'm not sure.
I want to make sure a Direct TV box can be plugged in at a convient spot. Any suggestions?

2airishuman · 03-24-2010, 10:52 AM

as i recall my UPcharge was only 1x 500$ for multiple changes...

but some of this price thing is dealer specific, since many of them do not wanna deal with special orders.

but having someone WATCH over the change process is really important.

while these units are built by humans, many of the folks are just on autopilot...

"robots in jeans" was the phrase one long time a/s company shirt used to describe the work force (off the record)

this applies even to the QI/control folks.

even though my unit was built WITHOUT carpet,

there was a HAND written inspection/signoff sheet in the unit which said something like ...

'carpet installed nicely, no loose edges, frays or seams seen'

i saw this ON the assembly line while standing INSIDE the unit with wall2wall vinyl under foot...

___________

it's great to read so many notes from NEW customers who are ordering and personalizing...

much of the new unit sales COULD be done this way, it would boost sales.

cheers
2air'

GolfStream · 03-24-2010, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluto

GolfStream,
Do you know if the 110 outlet under the dinette table is hooked into the inverter? I assume all the 110 are, but I'm not sure.
I want to make sure a Direct TV box can be plugged in at a convient spot. Any suggestions?

Only some outlets are powered by the inverter and each is labeled. I was told on the 28 there is one outlet in the bedroom, one under the dinette and one in the galley. I asked that the one in the roof locker be added to the inverter circuit.

Bluto · 03-24-2010, 02:49 PM

Good info.
Looks like I'll have to check into my specific model for more on this. I never had a trailer with an inverter, so this part is new to me. At least now I know what questions to ask.

DreamStreamr · 03-24-2010, 07:19 PM

This is interesting about the inverter for selected receptacles. I would have assumed they were all powered through the inverter/shore power transfer switch for simplicity.

Do you suppose the installer simply feeds some breakers separately from the panel main? Without looking it up, I believe an AC power main should kill all AC circuits.

I'm shopping a 600watt inverter and would plan to put all circuits through it. When shore power is available it passes through the inverter (AC pass through relay), so all circuits are full power. When boondocking, we use so little AC power we wouldn't be challenging anything (inverter or circuits) with our loads.

We would like to power the fridge through the inverter when towing, and could then turn off the gas -- not a bad idea anyway. Save gas and not have to turn off the fridge when we are refueling our truck.

Anyway, I want to learn more about how the circuits are fed from inverters, in case the factory is doing this well. Hope so!

Jim

2airishuman · 03-24-2010, 07:31 PM

yeah magic everywhere at ALL outlets would be nice...

but there are amp/volt/watt ac/dc issues in play here.

and wire size is part of the issue.

for the fridge you need to understand HOW MUCH battery JUICE is needed...

and HOW LITTLE is replaced while towing...

nothing like stopping at the end of the day to a tepid fridge, water sloshin' in the freezer and 2 dead batteries.

cheers
2air'

DreamStreamr · 03-24-2010, 07:54 PM

Yeah, 2air, I think I understand what you're saying. You make, as usual, great points. There is too much I don't know about this still, so I'm asking questions and circling, circling, until I figure out what the plan should be.

I know my fridge is rated at max of 324 watts at 120vac. I don't know whether the fridge's resistance heater goes to full amps each time it cycles (I could measure this with amp meter some boring day), but it doesn't cycle all that often under most conditions.

So, for example, we might use a 50% load factor, or 162 watts and add in inefficiency of conversion through the inverter (10%?) and round it up to 180 watts. This could definitely draw down the battery quickly.

I don't think we get very good charging from the truck's alternator but I get great work out of 250 watts of solar panels. So on a good sunny day, it might work out without problem during daytime towing.

Then too, EE friends tell me inverters don't like resistance loads like heaters, fridges, crock pots very well (although one of these EEs says he has been running his fridge on a 400 watt inverter for years). Another reason not to consider the fridge. And the fridge works so darned well on propane, why mess with a good thing anyway?

But another issue you mention is about wire size -- I s'pose you're talking about the 12vdc primary wire, because the 110vac circuits are all (supposed to be) sized for the load breakers in the panel. The primary wire from the battery bank to the inverter, in my case, is a very short run (</=three feet). I can easily run appropriately large welding cable sized for the load.

If I'm not gonna run the fridge, my load calcs shrink substantially. A two-speed 2.5 qt crockpot, a curling iron, a couple of laptop linear power supplies, a few switching power supplies (wall-warts), and very few of these would be on at the same time. Four hundred watts would pull anything with ease, without the fridge.

Would any savings on propane pay for the inverter? Heck no, not for a long long time. We'll see what happens -- I've tossed this around without giving it any serious consideration for three years. Thanks for your reply,

Jim